Immortality.... your thoughts?

[Rogue]

The most valuable knowledge for humans is the awareness that their knowledge is limited, limited by their time and the cir stances. Belief is one thing while truth is the other, some assumptions will be proven to be truth and evidences will be the change maker, but those theories and thoughts that are considered to be truth in our time will probably also prove to be false, just like Aristotle's theoies concerning the movements of objects to today's people. Our technology is still limited and expecting everything with today's knowledge is just stupid, tbh.

[silverblk mystix]

There's no reason to make an assumption either way. There's no test we're required to complete and turn in that's asking these questions. SBM (Some Be@ner Mexican) was suggesting that the mind is one with nature. I asked him if he wanted to back that up and he just blew if off with some generalities.

If someone wants to show evidence that the human mind is one with nature, I'm here to read it.

Wrong.

What I did say was that concepts are not the same as reality. A concept can only point to reality - words can only point to reality and maybe describe reality - but they are not the same.

[DMC]

Wrong.

What I did say was that concepts are not the same as reality. A concept can only point to reality - words can only point to reality and maybe describe reality - but they are not the same.

Maybe there is no separation between human beings and nature....


Maybe this separation only exists in human beings minds.

You love using the word "wrong" as if you actually know better. Then you don't do anything to support your assertion. You claim "humans make this mistake all the time" as if the alternative is that animals do not, and you're somehow superhuman thus you can see this development and make the comparison.

All perception only exists in our minds. Even when we interpret external source data it's done so in our minds. Trying to separate yourself from that is futile. It's infinite regression at its finest.

[TDMVPDPOY]

live to old age only to be a prisoner of ur own body and mind....

[silverblk mystix]

You love using the word "wrong" as if you actually know better. Then you don't do anything to support your assertion. You claim "humans make this mistake all the time" as if the alternative is that animals do not, and you're somehow superhuman thus you can see this development and make the comparison.

All perception only exists in our minds. Even when we interpret external source data it's done so in our minds. Trying to separate yourself from that is futile. It's infinite regression at its finest.

Not exactly. When I say "humans" - I mean - everyone - including myself. I wish I had time to break it down and explain it - but my schedule won't permit it these days so I assume you will believe in your own assertions anyway...carry on.

[DMC]

Not exactly. When I say "humans" - I mean - everyone - including myself. I wish I had time to break it down and explain it - but my schedule won't permit it these days so I assume you will believe in your own assertions anyway...carry on.

So you're saying humans have a oneness with nature, but you don't believe it.

[silverblk mystix]

So you're saying humans have a oneness with nature, but you don't believe it.

The word "maybe" is useful - when one pays attention to it. Maybe - there is no difference between us and nature....maybe we are connected and are one and the same thing...

It is consistent with your bigotry - that you believe we are all separate...therefore some are " s"...some are "nigs"...this comes from someone who believes he is "more than" or "other than" others....and "separate from" something like nature.

Maybe nature is your being....maybe reality and nature and you are one and the same thing.

Concepts, ideas, etc...are not reality...

You don't go to a restaurant and eat the menu - you want the food. Words, ideas, concepts - are not reality - they are pointers to reality.

[DMC]

The word "maybe" is useful - when one pays attention to it. Maybe - there is no difference between us and nature....maybe we are connected and are one and the same thing...

It is consistent with your bigotry - that you believe we are all separate...therefore some are " s"...some are "nigs"...this comes from someone who believes he is "more than" or "other than" others....and "separate from" something like nature.

Maybe nature is your being....maybe reality and nature and you are one and the same thing.

Concepts, ideas, etc...are not reality...

You don't go to a restaurant and eat the menu - you want the food. Words, ideas, concepts - are not reality - they are pointers to reality.

The word "maybe" is a word people like you use when they want to be heard but have nothing to say. If you have evidence of something, by all means.. speak up, however anyone here could toss out this "maybe" bull all day and never say anything we don't already know. Either say something or shut the up.

Concepts and ideas are reality else they wouldn't exist.

[silverblk mystix]

The word "maybe" is a word people like you use when they want to be heard but have nothing to say. If you have evidence of something, by all means.. speak up, however anyone here could toss out this "maybe" bull all day and never say anything we don't already know. Either say something or shut the up.

Concepts and ideas are reality else they wouldn't exist.

You don't know what the you are talking about - otherwise - you wouldn't ask for evidence when talking about reality. You can't show evidence when dealing with reality. Evidence is for lab testing and bull mechanical things. In the issues of reality - concepts can't take you there.

So shut the up idiot.

[DMC]

You don't know what the you are talking about - otherwise - you wouldn't ask for evidence when talking about reality. You can't show evidence when dealing with reality. Evidence is for lab testing and bull mechanical things. In the issues of reality - concepts can't take you there.

So shut the up idiot.

Well maybe a purple unicorn checks assholes on Mars in another dimension of space/time. Maybe the creek swimming leaf blowing brown pygmy looking frijoles are really angels from a 6th dimension and are watching over us. Maybe you're not qualified to discuss epistemology (run and look the word up, hurry) and should stick to sucking Avante's asshole and the juvenile back and forth with Chump Dumper and leave the deeper discussion to people who don't fall back on "maybe". You and WC could get a room and maybe each other in the ass if you could Google map your own s and then you could slip two fingers up his ass and find the hidden meaning.

[silverblk mystix]

Well maybe a purple unicorn checks assholes on Mars in another dimension of space/time. Maybe the creek swimming leaf blowing brown pygmy looking frijoles are really angels from a 6th dimension and are watching over us. Maybe you're not qualified to discuss epistemology (run and look the word up, hurry) and should stick to sucking Avante's asshole and the juvenile back and forth with Chump Dumper and leave the deeper discussion to people who don't fall back on "maybe". You and WC could get a room and maybe each other in the ass if you could Google map your own s and then you could slip two fingers up his ass and find the hidden meaning.

So you want to talk about "reality"....and you want to throw out the word "knowledge" ...and you want to throw "epistemology" around as if you actually knew what the you were talking about?

LMAO....

Maybe...

Maybe I'll humor you a little;

#1) Let us see if we can first have - Clarity of perception. Are your emotions in the way? Your likes? Dislikes?
Maybe - you shouldn't go there yet - first - grapple with your ideas....your conclusions...your concepts. Every concept that you have to get in touch with reality - is nothing but a barrier to you - and this "knowledge" gets in the way of reality. It is meant to help you - this - knowledge - but it can also be a barrier.

Example: The concept - Human being.
I give you the concept - human being - and I have given you a universal thing that applies to many different types of people. It is vague. In science terms - this is helpful - this is useful. In reality - what do you have? Not much. Human being could apply to primitive man, child, grown up, male, female, young aged, old aged, etc.
When you run into a human being - it is concrete - unilke your universal concept - it is concrete, specific. The concept omits uniqueness- it is universal. Do I know this person - if all I have is the concept? Nope. If I meet this person - and I get to experience her - and I get to see her - intuit her - then I have gone beyond the concept. I see a whole different and unique creature - than if I only knew about the universal concept. I can't conceptualize her - I have to experience her. A human being can be intuited - but cannot be conceptualized. Concrete uniqueness can only be found in reality - not in your concepts/ideas/labels/conventions. If all you experience is your concept - you are not experienceing reality - because reality is concrete/unique where concepts are only pointers, hints...
The concept leads you there - but you have to experience it directly- once you arrive.


#2) Another quality - Reality flows....but concepts are frozen...static.... to be continued...

[Blake]

So you want to talk about "reality"....and you want to throw out the word "knowledge" ...and you want to throw "epistemology" around as if you actually knew what the you were talking about?

LMAO....

Maybe...

Maybe I'll humor you a little;

#1) Let us see if we can first have - Clarity of perception. Are your emotions in the way? Your likes? Dislikes?
Maybe - you shouldn't go there yet - first - grapple with your ideas....your conclusions...your concepts. Every concept that you have to get in touch with reality - is nothing but a barrier to you - and this "knowledge" gets in the way of reality. It is meant to help you - this - knowledge - but it can also be a barrier.

Example: The concept - Human being.
I give you the concept - human being - and I have given you a universal thing that applies to many different types of people. It is vague. In science terms - this is helpful - this is useful. In reality - what do you have? Not much. Human being could apply to primitive man, child, grown up, male, female, young aged, old aged, etc.
When you run into a human being - it is concrete - unilke your universal concept - it is concrete, specific. The concept omits uniqueness- it is universal. Do I know this person - if all I have is the concept? Nope. If I meet this person - and I get to experience her - and I get to see her - intuit her - then I have gone beyond the concept. I see a whole different and unique creature - than if I only knew about the universal concept. I can't conceptualize her - I have to experience her. A human being can be intuited - but cannot be conceptualized. Concrete uniqueness can only be found in reality - not in your concepts/ideas/labels/conventions. If all you experience is your concept - you are not experienceing reality - because reality is concrete/unique where concepts are only pointers, hints...
The concept leads you there - but you have to experience it directly- once you arrive.


#2) Another quality - Reality flows....but concepts are frozen...static.... to be continued...

enlightened

[Blake]

You don't know what the you are talking about - otherwise - you wouldn't ask for evidence when talking about reality. You can't show evidence when dealing with reality. Evidence is for lab testing and bull mechanical things. In the issues of reality - concepts can't take you there.

So shut the up idiot.

enlightened meltdown

[johnsmith]

So you want to talk about "reality"....and you want to throw out the word "knowledge" ...and you want to throw "epistemology" around as if you actually knew what the you were talking about?

LMAO....

Maybe...

Maybe I'll humor you a little;

#1) Let us see if we can first have - Clarity of perception. Are your emotions in the way? Your likes? Dislikes?
Maybe - you shouldn't go there yet - first - grapple with your ideas....your conclusions...your concepts. Every concept that you have to get in touch with reality - is nothing but a barrier to you - and this "knowledge" gets in the way of reality. It is meant to help you - this - knowledge - but it can also be a barrier.

Example: The concept - Human being.
I give you the concept - human being - and I have given you a universal thing that applies to many different types of people. It is vague. In science terms - this is helpful - this is useful. In reality - what do you have? Not much. Human being could apply to primitive man, child, grown up, male, female, young aged, old aged, etc.
When you run into a human being - it is concrete - unilke your universal concept - it is concrete, specific. The concept omits uniqueness- it is universal. Do I know this person - if all I have is the concept? Nope. If I meet this person - and I get to experience her - and I get to see her - intuit her - then I have gone beyond the concept. I see a whole different and unique creature - than if I only knew about the universal concept. I can't conceptualize her - I have to experience her. A human being can be intuited - but cannot be conceptualized. Concrete uniqueness can only be found in reality - not in your concepts/ideas/labels/conventions. If all you experience is your concept - you are not experienceing reality - because reality is concrete/unique where concepts are only pointers, hints...
The concept leads you there - but you have to experience it directly- once you arrive.


#2) Another quality - Reality flows....but concepts are frozen...static.... to be continued...

You literally have no point do you?

[silverblk mystix]

#2) cont'd....

Reality = In flux

Concepts = Static

Concepts are frozen....reality is moving....flowing.

Where reality is flowing- moving - going on - Concepts and words fragment reality. This is why we have language - to cut up reality. Different languages - different ways of cutting up reality. This is why it is sometimes difficult to translate - because different languages/cultures cut up reality differently - and there are untranslatable words and expressions - because everyone is cutting up reality differently ---and ---adding and subtracting something - on top of - the fact that usage - keeps changing.

Reality = Whole ... but we cut it up and insert concepts and words to indicate all the different parts.

Ideas fragment reality - they fragment the intuition, the experience of reality as a whole. Words CANNOT give you reality. They can only indicate - only point to reality. Once you arrive - they are useless.


Let us say that I am looking at a storm coming in...and it is blowing hard and the skies are darkening etc....Until today - I have seen a storm...and you know...you seen one you seen em all...but today - for whatever reason - I am blown away - I am entranced...colors are intense...trees are swaying violently...raindrops are piercing the air...the wind feels amazing...I am literally dumbfounded...completely awestruck and cannot even believe what I am seeing and feeling - it is unexplainable and I have never experienced anything like this in my life...I see this with a freshness I haven't felt since I was a small innocent child...I have no words for it...it is flowing - not fragmented at all...

If you suddenly awoke me and ask me to describe it...What could I answer?- I have no words for it. There aren't any words for it. As soon as I open my mouth and begin to describe it - we are right back to concepts.

Now, if I cannot express this reality that is visible to my eyes and audible to my own ears - how can one express what cannot be seen. (God?)
How does one find a word for the reality or experience of God?

Words are pointers - not descriptions - certainly - not reality.

People get into "god" discussions - and they think that the "word- god" is reality. Isn't that insane? If things and ideas and concepts are not reality - how can they think that their "god - concept" is reality? Is there anything more ridiculous? The concept of god is reality and you think you can show "evidence" "proof".... LMAO.

Concepts are wonderful for science and for laboratories and evidence and proof are useful and wonderful when dealing with mechanical things.



So if you think that your concepts are the same thing or equal to reality - then you might be even more blind than I suspected.

They are not the same thing.

[silverblk mystix]

Are cucks - reality? In Blake's case...yes ...they are.

[johnsmith]

#2) cont'd....

Reality = In flux

Concepts = Static

Concepts are frozen....reality is moving....flowing.

Where reality is flowing- moving - going on - Concepts and words fragment reality. This is why we have language - to cut up reality. Different languages - different ways of cutting up reality. This is why it is sometimes difficult to translate - because different languages/cultures cut up reality differently - and there are untranslatable words and expressions - because everyone is cutting up reality differently ---and ---adding and subtracting something - on top of - the fact that usage - keeps changing.

Reality = Whole ... but we cut it up and insert concepts and words to indicate all the different parts.

Ideas fragment reality - they fragment the intuition, the experience of reality as a whole. Words CANNOT give you reality. They can only indicate - only point to reality. Once you arrive - they are useless.


Let us say that I am looking at a storm coming in...and it is blowing hard and the skies are darkening etc....Until today - I have seen a storm...and you know...you seen one you seen em all...but today - for whatever reason - I am blown away - I am entranced...colors are intense...trees are swaying violently...raindrops are piercing the air...the wind feels amazing...I am literally dumbfounded...completely awestruck and cannot even believe what I am seeing and feeling - it is unexplainable and I have never experienced anything like this in my life...I see this with a freshness I haven't felt since I was a small innocent child...I have no words for it...it is flowing - not fragmented at all...

If you suddenly awoke me and ask me to describe it...What could I answer?- I have no words for it. There aren't any words for it. As soon as I open my mouth and begin to describe it - we are right back to concepts.

Now, if I cannot express this reality that is visible to my eyes and audible to my own ears - how can one express what cannot be seen. (God?)
How does one find a word for the reality or experience of God?

Words are pointers - not descriptions - certainly - not reality.

People get into "god" discussions - and they think that the "word- god" is reality. Isn't that insane? If things and ideas and concepts are not reality - how can they think that their "god - concept" is reality? Is there anything more ridiculous? The concept of god is reality and you think you can show "evidence" "proof".... LMAO.

Concepts are wonderful for science and for laboratories and evidence and proof are useful and wonderful when dealing with mechanical things.



So if you think that your concepts are the same thing or equal to reality - then you might be even more blind than I suspected.

They are not the same thing.

I like the part where you describe the storm in detail and then explain that you could never describe the storm if asked.

[johnsmith]

I'm also a big fan of how anti "words" you are in all your theories. That if words didn't exist, we'd somehow be a more enlightened being.

Now tell me how wrong I am and how I'm missing the point.

[DMC]

lol non-duality pigeon

[silverblk mystix]

I like the part where you describe the storm in detail and then explain that you could never describe the storm if asked.

This is, of course , what blind humans perceive...when they read something useful - and choose to keep their brain on autopilot. The description was -concepts - the actual experience could never be explained.

If you have ever had a moment - the birth of your child, an amazing experience - and all your descriptions fell short of what you really saw - then you would understand.

Who am I kidding....

[DMC]

http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/ssblo...consciousness/

Yeah who are you kidding? You steal a few ideas from some enlightened liberal got potter and you pretend you understand epistemology. You're talking about religious experience, nothing else. It has nothing to do with epistemology.

[silverblk mystix]

I'm also a big fan of how anti "words" you are in all your theories. That if words didn't exist, we'd somehow be a more enlightened being.

Now tell me how wrong I am and how I'm missing the point.

I guess you missed the RED parts....with the disclaimer ....

When the sage points at the moon...all the idiot sees is the finger pointing...

[johnsmith]

This is, of course , what blind humans perceive...when they read something useful - and choose to keep their brain on autopilot. The description was -concepts - the actual experience could never be explained.

If you have ever had a moment - the birth of your child, an amazing experience - and all your descriptions fell short of what you really saw - then you would understand.

Who am I kidding....

Well, I've had the "birth of my child" moment and frankly, I can describe it quite well and feel as though my description of the event does it pretty good justice on the emotions of the evening.

I think I can do this so well because I'm intelligent enough to use the words that I've learned throughout my life to be able to put them in the correct order to form a coherent and thoughtful story...which is basically the opposite of what you do on this site when explaining your "words are bad" theory.

[johnsmith]

I guess you missed the RED parts....with the disclaimer ....

When the sage points at the moon...all the idiot sees is the finger pointing...

Or because I've trained myself to not pay attention to anything you post in red because it generally denotes some asinine thought that makes little to no sense.

[silverblk mystix]

http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/ssblo...consciousness/

Yeah who are you kidding? You steal a few ideas from some enlightened liberal got potter and you pretend you understand epistemology. You're talking about religious experience, nothing else. It has nothing to do with epistemology.

Never heard of that guy - but he might have some good stuff - I might check it out - thanks!

On the other hand - these things are all over the scriptures - all over mystic teachings - all over history - for anyone that cares to see - I didn't ever claim to invent - I have said over and over that truth is there but people hate truth. People hate to see the truth even if the great mystics have been crying themselves hoarse with the truth for eons...