We all know how important MVPau is to the Lakers over the years. He has been instrumental in the success of one of the most storied franchise in league history.
We know that MVPau hasn't been given his rightful credit over the years due to his soft-spoken nature, but don't let that fool you, he was the driving force behind the Lakers success before injuries did him in. His combination of low post dominance, amiable personality and on-court intelligence propelled the Lakers from 1st round fodder to b2b champions. Looking back at the MVPau years with the Lakers, I wondered whether MVPau was a replaceable piece on the Lakers, and after comparing him to the players of the same year, it became quite certain that MVPau was pretty much irreplaceable.
Looking at the 08-09 season, MVPau had a WS/48 of .220. This year, the Lakers won rather handily due to a myriad of injuries to Boston. That year, the only F/C playing more than 20mpg in the regular and had a higher ws/48 than MVP was Dwight. In the playoffs, D12 and Dirk were the only ones (.241 and .238 vs. .221). Given D12's game, I would say that Dirk would be the only subs ute to replace MVPau in the playoffs and lead them to victory, but then Dirk's regular season probably won't put the Lakers in a position to get HCA vs. Orlando, this is a toss up, but I would say Dirk can reasonably replace MVPau.
Fast forward to 09-10. Given how tight the NBA finals was and how many FTs the Lakers shot in the 4th quarter to "overcome" a significant deficit, it would be safe to say that if you replace MVPau with any lesser player, the Lakers wouldn't have rung. Of all the F/C in the league that year, only D12 and Durant had a higher WS/48 than MVP in the regular season (.223 and .238 vs. MVPs .220), and in the playoffs, the only other player who played more than 20 mins/gm in the playoffs to have a higher ws/48 than MVP was Dirk (.291 vs. .224). Given D12's role and basketball IQ, I am pretty confident in saying that he will not be able to replace MVPau and lead the Lakers to victory, Even though I can see an MVP level talent like Durant or Dirk replacing MVPau in the playoffs, neither of their regular season performance would lead the Lakers to HCA throughout (aka ridiculous amounts of FTA in the 4th quarter of Game 7), so I am siding with MVPau being irreplaceable this season.
So there you have it, MVPau was the real deal, won the Lakers two championship as the main engine, and was almost irreplaceable in those two years. Kudos MVPau.
Pau was the best Laker in 2010. While Kirby did a great job getting the team through the WCF, when they played against a real defense in Boston, Pau took over. Kirby shot 40% in the Finals,43% the year prior and he was in his PRIME. Even a 33 year old MJ shot better than Kirby in the 2010 Finals, and against prime Payton.
Kirby takes bad shots which hurts his team, I looked at those game 7 misses, the shot selection was god awful.
Anyways, without Pau Kirby is stuck at 3.
Never understood the fascination of shooting %'s especially given the role said player inhabits on the floor. If you bump up Kobe's shooting %'s to 50%, he still only wins 5 rings...does it really matter?
Regardless, Pau was as equally important to their last 2 rings just as he was equally important to them losing in 08.
Pau has been missing in action for three ing years. He can't even win a playoff game without Kobe.
Memphis never made the playoffs before Gasol. See what I did there?
Honestly, you've been putting a lot of work this offseason. Kudos to you always finding an arguement, although without the light, you can't have the dark.
The Irreplaceable Pau indeed. exhibiting what clutch really is.
OKLAHOMA CITY(AP) Pau Gasol tipped in a missed jumper by Kobe Bryantwith a half-second left and the Los Angeles Lakers survived a late comeback effort by Oklahoma City and eliminated the Thunder 95-94 in Game 6 of the first-round playoff series on Friday night.
Nice vids. Shows what a great team that Laker team was in 09-10.
Spur fan counters the overeating of Kobe by fanbois by overeating Pau, great strategy
Why don't I do the same with Frenchy?! Because it is basketball idiocy. Both are great foreign players who were instrumental to the last two les in SA and LA but neither has won as the alpha. Just, stop.
All I know is if Kirby averaged 50% FG against the Pistons in 04 or Celtics in 08, he probably has 6 les. He shot 38% vs Pistons in 04, 22 attemtps for 22 ppg.
Of course the %s matter, if he had been more efficient in those 2 Finals losses his team would have won. Both Finals were winnable, they don't blow the lead on their home floor in Game 4 and they go to Boston up 3 - 2, with 2 chances to win the le. If Kirby shot 50% from the field in 08 Lakers easily win it all.
Doubt it. Only way he shoots that high if he stops shooting and neither team had another playmaker capable of filling that role. Shaq in 04 could of and should have gotten more touches but still would not change that series. Lakers were on fumes Malone was hurt GP was a s ... We were not better than the Pistons and if Fisher misses .4 we don't even make the Finals tbh. That team was such a huge disappointment more than last year's team GP was one of my all-time favorite non Lakers. I was never a Karl fan but adding those two with Shaqobe with Phil ...but the feud, Colorado, Gp hating the triangle made that a horrible season.
Tough to do, Parker, with his best year in 2007, had 6 guards with a better ws/48 in the regular season than him, including his teammates Manu Ginobili and Brent Barry.
In the playoffs, there were 16 guards with a better ws/48 minutes.
I am not even going to waste time looking up numbers in 05 (Ginobili was the man and very much irreplaceable), 03 (rookie), 99 (not yet in NBA).
Unlikely. That Celtics team destroyed that very same idea when they beat Cleveland. Lebron shot 50% in the series and still lost.
I hate arguments like this because it's a fallacy to think one player can beat a great team in a series.
For those who really remember, there's little doubt that 2008 Boston team was one of the best defensive team in history.
Kobe had a much better cast than Lebron, replace Kobe with Lebron in the Finals and the Lakers win.
Kirby shot like the whole series and turned the ball over, and this is PRIME Kirby we are talking about.
It's a team game bro. There's been times when Kobe's shot awesome and they lost and when he's shot poorly and they've prevailed. Each game is different and players of his ilk take on the heavy lifting of scoring, however if you have to take into consideration the intangibles and non sexy stats like asssits, steals and rebounds. Replace Kobe with Lebron on the Heat and they still win. That's the point brah.
Heat still win? Wade and Bosh both were horrible this year. Miami's defense is built around Lebron, with Kirby their defense goes from best in the league to 10-15th, their offense also gets worse because you replace 57% shooting with 44-46% shooting and now you have two aging SG's who are battling injuries. They don't win squat. They'd only make the Finals if everyone was healthy and they had Phil instead of Spo.
Phil said Kirby's defense was declining 9 years ago, since 2008 Kirby's defense has been massively overrated.
Point is if Kirby isn't hot he's gonna hurt his team because he doesn't really provide much other than streaky offense. He rarely shoots above 50% in games. Scrubs like Wilson Chandler score 30 points on him because he doesn't bother to rotate nor run back on D when he bricks his shot.
I'm guessing you're trolling, anyone that knows something about basketball would know that Kirby is nothing but a scorer who has the skillset to play point guard and who can play solid defense when he really tries but he's no Lebron James. He isn't huge nor is he athletically gifted like MJ or VC, he's a good shooter and a great shot creator who takes bad shots. Who would rather shoot a contested, long 3 before passing it to someone with a better look when the game is on the line. He will always be a ballhog and a chucker.
Then stop posting, you're not going to change my mind.....you clearly haven't seen his career as I or Laker fans have. Just like I didn't appreciate MJ when I was a kid (in my teens) (didn't buy into the Hype and the amount of sucking the media gave him in the 90's) watching bball and only recenlty began to appreciate his impact on the game. Tell me, how old are you? Trust me, it makes a world of difference in your critque. Watch the games, not youtube clips.
I watch as many games as I can, probably 2-3 games a night during the regular season. I watch every single team play and I know more about your team than you do. Youtube clips make Kirby look great and comparable to MJ but when you look at how many shots he actually misses and how turnover prone he is, you come to realizing how overrated this man is. No doubt he's a 5-time champion and one of the best scorers we've ever seen but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to criticize him. He single-handedly threw away the series vs OKC in 2012 with his late game turnovers and bricks. What I see is that Lakers are pretty average in crunch time and that they lose more games than they win in the clutch with Kobe Bean Bryant always taking every shot.
I look at the stats, I demand FACTS, not "oh, he has a pretty turnaround" or "oh, he scored 81 points against one of the worst teams in the league that year".
Get your head out of your ass and see what's really going on, you watch too much ESPN.
Sure, because winshares are the endall, beall
What other metrics do you want used? Are you saying that the Spurs would not have been able to win the 07 championship by replacing Parker with a list of other players, such as Nash, CP3, Deron Williams, Jason Kidd, Wade, Lebron, or even Kobe, Arenas, Iverson and Joe Johnson?
using any one metric as your sole measure of judgement is about as meaningful as going with a simple ring count
That's why I listed those players. Please tell me which from that list of people would replace Parker in 2007, and the Spurs would not have won the le?
There are some arguable ones for sure, but I am pretty confident that the Parker replaceable list is certainly a lot longer than the Pau replaceable list.
This. And my point is Duncan like all great players needed hof help to win. Duncan in 05 and the first Rox le are the closest to winning without it. But now that we see what Manu is, Tony is or even how clutch a young Big Shot Rob and Cassel were they had more help than previously believed.
The better question for Amb is can Vince or AI win with Pau as their beta I argue No. I also don't think the irreplaceable Pau could lead the Admiral and Avery to a le ... These type of replacement exercises are stat heads and loser type reasoning. The game is more than that I could argue place prime Kobe with Scottie, Horace and Phil and maybe they still win 6 les in Chicago but as good as Kobe is and as much as he replicated his game he is not MJ ...maybe they only win 4 ...but again who cares?! MJ did it not Kobe. Rings alone, stats alone can't tell a whole story.
Of course, Amb we have a dearth of quality bigs so that is. Pretty obvious, but yet in 2007 it was Parker, not any of the other players who torched a good Cavs defense.
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