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I read somewhere that the '80s were a challenge for you.
I mean, after effectively neutering Lakerfan in the record thread to the point of deflecting from cold hard facts, and LkrFan leaving me messages about how salty he is, a few of you nigs need to step your games up.
I read somewhere that the '80s were a challenge for you.
Not like the first round, KobeI read somewhere that the '80s were a challenge for you.
How bout your first 7 years in the league? Kobe 3-peated by his 7th year.Not like the first round, Kobe
How bout your first 7 years in the league? Kobe 3-peated by his 7th year.
And MJ achieved so much more...
Fisher
And MJ achieved so much more...
Ariza
Shaw
Fox
Bynum
Horry
Hail MJ!!!
let's talk about making the playoffs solo firstNot like the first round, Kobe
OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dis mj does solid work I admit. that's why I had to employ the jordan method which he was known to do with the knicks...befriend da enemy
Pippen didn't get b2b2b finals MVP awards. Neither did Kobe. Kobe = Pippen, not MJ. Shaq got b2b2b finals MVP awards. So did MJ (2x). Compare Shaq to MJ as far as dominance and you're much more accurate.
lol at Lakerfan using Pippen making the playoffs and winning 55 games with the team minus MJ. Notice how they didn't win the le without him?
Kobe Bryant Wasn’t As Big of a Factor As Perception Makes it Seem
Kobe Bryant, in reality, wasn’t as big as a factor with the Lakers during their championship runs as perception makes it seem.
If you took Shaq off the Lakers during their le runs, the Lakers wouldn’t be guaranteed to make the playoffs. When O’Neal was injured during his three peat, the Lakers had a regular-season record of 12-11 (.5217%).
When Kobe was injured, the Lakers regular season record was 25-7 (.78%). Interestingly, the Lakers’ entire regular-season record during their three-peats was 181-65 (.735%), which is a lower record than when Kobe wasn’t playing. The Lakers therefore actually had a better record when Kobe wasn’t playing.
Last edited by Michael Jordan.; 08-30-2013 at 10:59 AM.
Don't believe me? 82games.com keeps track of a player's effect on team defense by measuring the team's defensive efficiency when the player is on and off the court. For example, take Dwight Howard, who is unsurprisingly the team's best defender.When Dwight is on the court, the Lakers give up 105.1 points per 100 possessions. When he is off the court, the Lakers give up 111.7, so Dwight's net defensive rating is -6.6.
Metta World Peace's net is a strong -5.4. Steve Nash makes the defense worse with a net of +1.4. Where does Kobe stand? +3.2. Yes, he's worse than Nash. His net is matched by Antawn Jamison. Only Earl Clark's surprising +3.9 (no doubt skewed by his on-again, off-again participation in the rotation) prevents Kobe from being, statistically, the worst defender on the team.
In ’06-07, Phil Jackson was obviously still there, Lamar Odom remained great in all facets of the game, Luke Walton’s cerebral play did enough to earn him a huge contract, Smush Parker was about the same as the year before (plus he now averaged more steals than Bryant even though he played 10 less minutes per), Kwame Brown was now shooting a phenomenal 59% from the field, and youngster Andrew Bynum played in every game and recorded 10 double-doubles. Again, not the best supporting cast, but we see plenty of teams with much much worse every year. The Lakers went 39-38 (.506) with Kobe in the lineup and3-2 (.600) without. Again taking a look at Odom’s numbers, the team was 30-26 (.536) with him and 12-14 (.462) without, including losing 5 straight in March during the only 5 games he missed after January.
Kobe’s impact on W-L’s: I went into a little detail with these three rosters simply because the story over time has been that Kobe carried 4 carcasses around the court with him for three years, but it’s just not true; he had more to work with and a better coaching situation than Jason Kidd ever experienced in his prime. Overall, Kobe’s influence on LA’s W-L records wasn't very noticeable (111-111 with him, 9-14 without --- I know fans will want to jump on this as proof of his influence, so I'll point out that 14 of those contests were against teams at or above .500, meaning the expected W-L record for a .500 club against that lineup is 9-14), and he certainly wasn’t able to keep the team afloat when Lamar Odom was injured. In fact, a much stronger case can be made that Odom was the one carrying the franchise during this time based on the Lakers’ W-L records with and without him. The numbers indicate that Kobe’s impact wasminimal.
With Pau Gasol/Andrew Bynum/Lamar Odom (’07-08 to ’10-11)
Three things happened during the ’07-08 season that helped define a new era of Lakers basketball and which ultimately took a 42-win team and instantly turned them into a 57-25 contender. First, Derek Fisher returned. Second, Andrew Bynum’s career took off. He played 28 minutes per game and even started 25 times through January 13, averaging 13 ppg, 10 rpg, 2.1 blocks, while shooting an unreal 64%. The Lakers, with a legit big-bodied center who brought it at both ends while playing next to Lamar Odom, were 25-11 at that point (1-0 without Bynum). He went down for the season that night, and suddenly LA was playing like they did during that three year stretch of mediocrity, going 5-5 over the next 10 contests. Third, at that point the team completed one of the most laughably one-sided trades in league history, picking up All-Star big man Pau Gasol from Memphis. With two talented big men again manning the paint, the Lakers went on a 15-3 tear, including a season-high 10-game win streak. Gasol hurt his ankle two minutes into his 19th game as a Laker and was gone for ten consecutive games, and again the club went 5-5. He returned in April, and LA finished strong, going 7-1 the rest of the way before making it all the way to the Finals. Although Bryant played all 82 games that year so we can’t see how the team did with and without him, we do see that the team was 46-15 (.754) with either a Gasol-Odom or Bynum-Odom frontcourt, but only 11-10 (.524) without at least two first-rate bigs in the paint, despite Kobe’s best efforts.
Kobe’s impact on W-L’s: Kobe only missed games in this era in ’09-10, so there isn’t much to go on in terms of calculating his impact to the team’s W-L record. When he missed an extremely difficult 5-game stretch that season, the Lakers responded beautifully with Shannon Brown starting in his place, rattling off a surprisingly easy 4-1 record. The only dips the team took during this four-year period occurred in ’07-’08, and those correlated with the absences of Bynum and Gasol. There is nothing to indicate that the success of the Lakers over the past four years was dependent on Bryant. In fact, it seems pretty clear it depended heavily on the health of their frontcourt. Kobe’s impact was somewhere right around none, with more evidence to suggest it was slightly negative than slightly positive.
Overall
Kobe has played in three distinct Laker eras, and the W-L numbers tell us the same thing for
each one: he did not make a positive impact on his team. I provided more contextual
information than I have for the other players so that skeptics can’t blow these numbers off as
out of context. The basic thing you have to notice is that his squads have never done
disproportionately poor without him—in fact they’ve often gotten better—yet they’re always
right around .500 when they don’t have a dominant frontcourt manned either by Shaq or
multiple talented bigs as was the case years later, even with Kobe and everything else being
the same. Considering his efficiency stats have been subpar throughout his entire career
(particularly shooting and passing/ballhandling), and he’s been well known to attempt difficult
shots and steal attempts with little regard for his team’s strengths or systems, this conclusion
shouldn’t be as large of a shock as many people might assume.
LkrFan? Where art thou?
Theyre busy googling Gay and Duncan
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