Reply With Quote
Allow me to return the favor regarding your B.S. ILLOGIC and Manu homerism.
"Manu didn't hurt us with his turnovers." - cd021
I've put you on my Ignore list "Skull-1" don't bother direct quoting me. I've had enough of your B.S. logic.
Allow me to return the favor regarding your B.S. ILLOGIC and Manu homerism.
"Manu didn't hurt us with his turnovers." - cd021
Last edited by Skull-1; 09-07-2013 at 11:33 PM.
Interesting stuff here, thanks! That version of "Machine Gun" is genius.....
Interesting but highly flawed.Interesting stuff here, thanks! That version of "Machine Gun" is genius.....
Man.. the denial is as thick as skull's skull. This will be the last time I post a response to you. Can't teach the unteachable. Some of you like to live in the dark because dark is all you know and this is coming from someone who's been MIB for a really long time. You better recognize that like Kawhi, there were members of the TEAM that did more positive than negative but even a great one like Kawhi can miss a shot at locking up a le. That's what happened at that moment in time. He had a shot and missed it.
RECOGNIZE.
For you the following quote applies,"Some people show up on this board and appear foolish. But when they post, any doubt that they are fools is completely removed."
It does no good to try to reason with skull, or TE, or Tgy. The unreasonable do not pay attention to reason.
As ElNono says, "and you expected to change their minds?"
All of them have gone beyond just being fools, they are in total denial. That is why I am convinced they are trolling this forum because on every thread they appear, they post crazy inflammatory ignorant BS with no rhyme or reason whatsoever. Sense apparently does not need to make sense as far as they are concerned.
Trolls will be trolls. They get their kicks trying to piss others off. Just laugh at them, that's what they hate the most.
Manu did not play well in the finals and even he will tell you he was not playing well, period. I won't sit here though and just blame him for the finals when in all honesty if Pop has Tim in there in the last 28 seconds this is all null now and we are not talking about it, so........ I am blaming a few here and not just Manu. A bad set of events happened to lose the Finals and it was not meant to be! Things go like that sometimes.
Did Manu play great in the finals or even good sides a game or two? NO, any fan can see that and he himself will even tell you he tried but he did not play good at all most of the finals, period. We are beating a dead horse to death though with these posts on him and so on. We have to get over it some day soon, time to move on and see what he or we can do in the future to win another finals if we are blessed enough to get there again.
I agree and even posted so at the beginning, but I wasn't about to beat a dead horse into the ground. And cases can be made, and already have been made, for other players contributing to the losses too, as well as the Heat rising up and flat taking it away from them. I won't go back into all those because we've read them already.
You are right though in that we should be focused now on the future.
And we should be proud of the accomplishments the Spurs made this season.
Man, I'd love to see Manu, Dirk, and Gasol play together. That all-star game was fun to watch for those stretches.
Manu doesn't seem to take much blame.
He played horribly. Out of control. If he doesn't get a handle on himself he will screw us again next season.
The problem around here is that any objective fan can see that manu wet the bed, but the board homers can't. They invent ridiculous arguments like cd021 that claim Manu's poor decisions and turnovers didn't hurt us. It is laughable to even suggest such a thing. Had he played with some control we would have won Game Six or Seven.
If past is prologue, Manu will screw us again. They better get him to adjust his game or we will see this happen again, only it will likely be earlier than The Finals.
Sad you can't just move on with. OK Manu was awful. Nothing you say or do is going to change the situation or make it better. OK so we know what you think of Manu for the 100th time.
If they say those TO's did not hurt us and try to claim he played well sides that one game and a half of another one then they are flat out in DENIAL, true. I see both sides but fans I talk to who are not even Spurs fans say he played horrible, Manu knows it himself. I think there is no argument there to be had, he sucked for Manu.
Let look at this as an equasion
Manu's scoring=11.6ppg
Manu's points off assists-10 ppg (72 total points scored on his 30 assists)
=21.6 "true ppg"
Deduct Manu's points off turnovers (how many points Miami scored off of Manu's 22 turnovers)
=26 or 3.7 per game
3.7-21.6=17.9 "True points per game" He contributed 22.3 % of the Spurs overall offense.
Wow most of those passes were missed shots, not great passes and a few were turnovers. Seriously? Manu was great, but right now he's a liability more often than not.
That's a misleading stat. You put it up there like he's solely responsible for that percentage of the offense, but he's not. Someone scored and got credit for the score, so they are responsible for the points. Take your 22% and give Manu what he deserves from it, not the full percentage. Even if you were liberal and gave him half, he's responsible for 11% of the total offense. That's about 1 of 10 guys. 22% is about 1 of 5 guys. Shouldn't he be responsible for at least 1 of the 5 on the floor since he's 1/3rd of the big 3?
This is more about the Heat's inability to score off turnovers. It has no bearing on the fact that Manu turned the ball over an incredible number of times and basically gave the game and possibly the series away.
You can twist the numbers until their sums suit your argument, but in doing so you discount the effort the rest of the team put in to get where they were and act as if it was just Manu out there keeping it real. Anyone without Manu colored glasses on who was watching the game saw what a liability the guy was. Moments in the game hold more weight than some other moments. That last quarter in game 6 held more importance than that first quarter simply because decisions are made that normally wouldn't be made in the flow of a game when you still have 36 minutes to play. Teams force turnovers, get out and run, take chances and try to tie or win. Teams with leads go into a prevent offense mode and often give up huge runs. Manu really helped that by turning the ball over during pivotal moments in the game.
Compare it to a marathon where two runners end up neck and neck 100 feet from the finish. They sprint and one overtakes the other by a nose. You can say that the marathon was won at the beginning, but the truth is that deficits can be overcome if you have time, and if you know you have a deficit. Once the end nears, the importance of decisions increases exponentially.
I think you are looking at his performance in the wrong light. He is 35 and is counted on to be the 3rd best player on a le team, while being the primary ball handler when most of the time he is on the court, with teammates that included.
Jospeh-A D-League to playoff backup PG. Miami didn't respect his shot and sagged off closing drive lanes and focusing on Manu, while ignoring him.
Bonner a pick and pop big who can't create for himself.
Splitter- A dependent P&R bigman who frequently struggled at finishing at the rim ( he was blocked by James, Wade, and Battier in that series)
Manu's turnovers didn't help us, true, but they surely didn't harm us. 72 points off assists to just 26 points off turnovers shows just how effiective his passing was when he connected on his target.
Turnovers aren't created equally. If he turned the ball over 3 times that lead to 9 points being scored people would ignore it because he only had 3 turnovers.
Since he turned the ball over 8 times, people tend to complain that it cost the team a lot of points. Its the exact opposite. His 8 T.O's cost the Spurs a grand total of 9 points. Most of those occurred during the 1st 3 quarters, when Miami was severely out played. The Spurs as a whole commited the same amount as Miami did and actually still had more possessions and field goal attempts in Game 6.
In Game-7 his turnovers less much less costly in retrospect. His 4 T.O's cost the spurs 5 points. Conversely his 5 assists created 12 points. In addition, he connected on 8-14 and scored 18 points. that 1/3 of our offense.
I actually wouldn't believe anything Manu, or Tony or Tim said following the most crushing loss of their careers. They are never won to point fingers but instead should the blame. Manu wasn't Manu from 05' but this really isn't different from how he played this past season. Oddly enough this past playoff is very similar to the 11-12 postseason where he put up a classic Manu game (34 in Game 5 against OKC).
Skull-1 knows he had his main argument discredited (by me) and yet continues to complain. I ignore-listed him because he is the most blatant troll, Ive encountered on ST. I'm just one of 4 who have called him out on his B.S.
Has anyone mentioned that we now have 3 Hall of Famers and one possible All Star to go forward with. Granted that the Big 3 are getting older, they can still play at a high level and Kwahi is arriving at that stature as well. No matter how you rate these four guys, all of them can ball.
Having a Big 4 is a luxury that no other team has.
Not really, he had costly TO's in the games and did not play well at all really sides that one game and half or so of game 7, it is what it is and I won't overanalyze it. He will tell you he wished he could have done more, most saw he was playing bad and there is really no way to sugar coat or way around it. Game 6 I won't even mention, that pretty much shot us in the foot and he was a part of that on top of it sadly. I don't care how much the TO's ammounted to which was 9 pts you said? That means if he turns it over one less time we win by a point or so? How many points could we have gotten off one less of those TO's? Possibly two or three and we win by a few instead of having to come back in that 4th. Manu's TO's early in that fourth got them back in that game when others were on the bench, make no if and or buts about it that stretch basically was the game sides us coming back late and taking the lead again (That was a key stretch by Miami there).
Manu did not play well for him at all and most will admit that, if you say he played good then so be it but I wish he could have done a little bit more but that 35 year old body would not allow it as a whole it seems. He was not 012 Manu even or near it, he was stumbling and handing the ball to the other team at times and making me and every fan watch shake their head and say what was that? He played well in Spurts, but her was nowhere near the Manu we great to love and helped us win 3 les. It is more than just how much they scored on the other end from the TO's btw, it took away from our opportunity down there in which we could have had a little lead late and not needed a comeback at the end to try and pull it out (We gave up a good lead in game 6 in the 4th).
BTW I like Manu and am still a fan, but he didn't play good in the finals and for most of the playoffs, he was not his normal self who even used to be ICE at FT's down the stretch (That part even left him some). I don't blame him solely for the loss though in the finals, he was a part of it with some plays but it was hardly all his fault we lost the finals when others dissapeared FULLY during game 6 and 7 (Everyone basically sides Tim and Kawhi and Manu some in game 7).
I disagree fully though the TO's surely did not harm us, when you have them late in a key game they surely do harm you no matter what you did before and how many points they got off them prior to that, one KEY TO can harm you so they do harm you and to have over 5 to's in a game no matter who you are is pretty costly and bad. I won't say they did not harm us at all.
One thing that people forget to mention is that it wasn't just turnovers but Ginobili's defense was horrible in game 6 especially down the stretch. He was out of position on a lot of key possessions.
I guess you didn't see what the Nets did over the summer.
And 100% of our crunch time turnovers.
You are a delusional. He killed momentum, took points off the board, and gave life to Miami. His stupid turnovers wore down our defense and his early shot clock bricks gave the Heat time to recover.
Last edited by Skull-1; 09-09-2013 at 12:41 PM.
He isn't even in the top five.
Didn't hurt us? Most ridiculous statement of the year!
You haven't proven squat. You ignored me because you're tired of getting b slapped over your blind homerism.
Your so-called stats don't show what we all could see with our eyes and on the players' and coaches' faces. An aging, slower team trying to hold off a young, hungry team, only to see a supposedly clutch player throw the ball away over and over and over.
His total shot percentage was horrific and at critical times when we needed to burn clock and run the offense he was chucking up threes that bricked.
It takes a ton more energy to defend. Anyone who has ever played basketball knows this. Every Manu turnover gave the Heat life, drained our energy, and took our points off the board.
His turnovers cost nine points by your math. We needed one in regulation and three in OT. In no universe except yours do nine points scored by a player with eight turnovers costing nine points (and the cost was truly higher than that) "not hurt us."
Stick your stats in your ear.
Last edited by Skull-1; 09-09-2013 at 12:42 PM.
Big 4? No way. Manu is not Big Anything.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
