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My
Welcome to the official thread for players who won 3 or more NBA Finals MVP awards.
Michael Jordan - six
Magic Johnson - three
Tim Duncan - three
Shaquille O'Neal - three
My
The GOATs.
Lebron will be up there soon in all likelihood. Then you'll have the all time starting lineup.
tbh makes me question Kareem's place in the top 10 considering out of 6 rings he only won Finals MVP twice
Tbh he won a Finals MVP at 37 years old and he's the all-time leading scorer. His longetivity alone makes him one of the greatest.
He had a Finals series of 33-14-3 and 5 blks on 55% in 1980 but didn't win FMVP. Better than anything than the guy OP is trying to prop.
but as far as "Alpha les", he has 2. Still ahead of Duncan on the alltime list obviously.
Kobe 2001 Finals-- 25-8-6 / 50 TS%
Kobe 2002 Finals-- 27-6-5 / 62 TS%
Duncan 2005 Finals-- 21-14-2 / 47 TS%
Tell me how well Kirby shot in 2000,2004,2008 and 2010
Oh yes, showing Kirby's medicore and his best Finals and comparing them to Duncan's worst in terms of efficiency.
TD's 2003 Finals destroys Kirby's best in 2002(both against the same team as well).
Lakers didnt win in 04 and 08.Tell me how well Kirby shot in 2000,2004,2008 and 2010
Oh yes, showing Kirby's medicore and his best Finals and comparing them to Duncan's worst in terms of efficiency.
TD's 2003 Finals destroys Kirby's best in 2002(both against the same team as well).
Kobe's 4 best Finals wins
2001-- 25-8-6 / 50 TS%
2002-- 27-6-5 / 62 TS%
2009-- 32-6-7 / 53 TS%
2010-- 29-8-4 / 53 TS%
Duncan's 4 best Finals wins
1999-- 27-14-2 / 60 TS%
2003-- 24-17-5 / 55 TS%
2005-- 21-14-2 / 47 TS%
2007-- 18-12-4 / 48 TS%
TS favors Kirby because of the amount of free throws and him being the better FT shooter.
Yeah, and that's a bad thing? Freethrows are part of a players efficiency.
Spurfan desperate
^0 time Finals MVP speaking.
^ victim of 6 speaking
^dated a horse looking person
Didn't Duncan shoot better than 40%?
comparing Duncan playing against the best defensive frontcourt ever versus Kobe benefiting from Shaq being triple teamed
Kobe had only 2 Finals MVP. Thread is for players who won 3+
I remember educating you on the use of TS% in the past, and how perimeter players and post players generally do not compare. It's like comparing rebounds, assists, blocks or FG% between players. What is considered good for a perimeter player could be considered horrible for an inside player for one category, and vice versa for another.
The reason is due to the use of 3 point shots + FTs and how TS% favours perimeter players.
For example, a player like Monta Ellis, who is known to be a player with questionable shot selection, has a career TS% of 52.6% (similar or better than 3 of the 4 Kobe series you cited), and the reason lies in how he's a 31.8% 3PT shooter in his career out of 2.8 attempts (17% of his total shots). This 31.8% shooting essentially translates to a 47.7% true shooting (a respectable number for a perimeter player if it was actually FG%, and higher than his career 45.6% FG%). Add to that his .773 FT%, and how 18.5% of his total career points came off of FTs, it helped dragged his TS% to Kobe best finals numbers.
Compare this to, say, Chris Webber, who, in general terms, is a relatively decent inside player his entire career. Webber had a career TS % of 51.3%, which isn't bad for a post player, but most definitely a full % lower than Monta Ellis. Is Webber a less efficient player than Ellis? Of course not, what kind of idiot would say that other than those who have absolutely no idea of statistics and how they work?
Another reason is because Kobe won 5 championships while Duncan "only" 4. In your comparison, Kobe's worse series (2003) was thrown out, while Duncan's wasn't. We also haven't looked at losses (2004, 2008 and 2013), and dismissing the losses and only included the wins is a highly questionable comparison.
Finally, the roles of Duncan and Kobe were different. Kobe was the clear cut sidekick in 01 and 02, and had a dominant front line (Kobe's equal of better) to take pressure off him in 09 and 10, while Duncan carried the Spurs offense in 99 and 03, had an equal/sidekick on offense in 05 while being guarded by arguably one of the best defensive frontcourt ever in 05, and was a clear defensive anchor in 07. Kobe was never thrusted in an offensive role in a Finals series like Duncan held in 03 or even 99, nor had he ever had the level of defensive attention that Duncan had, ever. I can play against a bunch of kindergarten kids and have a TS% of 150%, but that won't make me a more efficient player than Kobe Bryant.
Holy .
R.I.P
You only told me what we already know about TS. It may favor perimeter players a little, but its still the best measure of OVERALL efficiency. Threes and freethrows are part of the game.
Ellis would have had a very low TS% if he faced the same elite defensive teams in the Finals. Why are you comparing regular season TS% to Finals TS%?
The second part of your post is absolute bull . First off Kobe had way more of a offensive responsibilty than Duncan had. Kobe averaged 32 ppg and 7 apg in 09, offensive numbers Duncan never came close too, his highest ppg was 27. Kobe bested that number in 10 when he averaged 29 ppg. Sorry, Duncan was never close to being the offensive force Kobe was and teams did not defend Duncan the way they did Kobe. Duncan puts up role player type ppg like a Kevin McHale and Memphis Pau Gasol for most of his career. Kobe is one of the greatest scorers ever and you think Tim 20ppg Duncan got defenses scared? Lol
Last edited by Deuce Bigalow; 09-08-2013 at 05:00 AM.
Ok, so Kobe is the better overall offensive player. Now look at rebounding and defense. Kirby puts up 25 ppg on medicore efficiency for his career, meanwhile Duncan is one of the greatest defensive players and rebounders of all time, there are plenty of players that are better than Kirby on the offensive end, and they're even in the league right now. What does Kirby have on Lebron or KD when you're looking at offense? Both are more efficient with Bron also being the better playmaker, while Durant is the better shooter from the FT line,mid-range and 3pointers. Then we get to MJ,Magic,Bird.
Really, what is Kirby so good at? Chucking up 20+ shots a game for 25-27 ppg? Phil, in 2004 already said Kirby's D is declining and that he refuses to do what's best for the team when he's not making his shots. Kirby has only gotten worse on D and he's still a chucker that refuses to make plays for others on a consistent basis. Last year he was forced to do so because him averaging 30+ ppg on 47% shooting early in the season didn't win , they went 8 games under .500 during Kirby's "hot streak".
Duncan might not be Hakeem on offense but his overall play is only matched by a few all-time great big men. Not to mention he's won more FMVPs than Kareem,Hakeem,Wilt and he has as many rings as Shaq.
Kevin McHale and Pau were hardly role players, McHale is considered one of the most dominating low-post players of all time, Pau got Kirby 2 more rings, being the better player in the regular season in 09 and the post-season in 2010, especially the Finals.
Duncan averaged 24 points 17 rebounds 5 assists and 5 blocks for an entire Finals series and put up 30 and 17 at the age of 37 in Game 6 vs Miami, what has Kirby done lately?
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