Manu Ginobilli's Five Most Amazing Passes

[Skull-1]

One thing that people forget to mention is that it wasn't just turnovers but Ginobili's defense was horrible in game 6 especially down the stretch. He was out of position on a lot of key possessions.

I am sure c 021 has a "stat" for that which "proves" you wrong. Never mind what we all saw.

[cd021]

It is more than just how much they scored on the other end from the TO's btw, it took away from our opportunity down there in which we could have had a little lead late and not needed a comeback at the end to try and pull it out (We gave up a good lead in game 6 in the 4th).

Manu's postseason wasn't nearly as bad as it seems. He had good games in Game 3 and Game 6 of the GSW series and was a big part of Games 1,2 & 3 against the Lakers. He was also key in our Game 1, Game ,3 and especially Game 5, wins in the Finals. when you look solely at his scoring its isn't nearly as impressive.

Game 1- 13pts, 3 assists, 8 points off assists=21 total points

Game-3- 7 pts, 6 assists, 15 points off assists=22 total points

Game 5-24 pts, 10 assists, 25 points off assists=49 total points

Game-7- 18pts, 5 assists, 12 points off assists=30 total points

That is true. But I can't measure possessions that we never played offensively. My logic is that the turnovers he did have had, turned out to have minimal effect. The offensive he created far outweighed his mistakes. His turnovers wasn't the reason why Miami came back in game 6. Pop taking both Duncan, & Parker 5:30 minutes plus an full timeout, completely ruined our offense flow. Also benching Duncan with 28 seconds left.

Leaving Manu out there with Neal, Green, Splitter, & Diaw wasn't that smartest. Neal was the only other play who consistently can create offense for himself. Splitter and Green were ineffective and Diaw is much more effective playing with Duncan, Parker, Leonard and Green. That lineup was painful to watch, Miami could trap every single time Manu touched the ball and then could recover because Green can't dribble & Splitter can't seem to maneuver around a guard without getting blocked.

that's were the blame lies in my eyes. Pops decision making was baffling. Blaming Manu for game 6 isn't right IMO. His Game 7 was better than credited Parker struggled and he made plays and was the 3rd best Spur.

[cd021]

This is more about the Heat's inability to score off turnovers. It has no bearing on the fact that Manu turned the ball over an incredible number of times and basically gave the game and possibly the series away.

You can twist the numbers until their sums suit your argument, but in doing so you discount the effort the rest of the team put in to get where they were and act as if it was just Manu out there keeping it real. Anyone without Manu colored glasses on who was watching the game saw what a liability the guy was. Moments in the game hold more weight than some other moments. That last quarter in game 6 held more importance than that first quarter simply because decisions are made that normally wouldn't be made in the flow of a game when you still have 36 minutes to play. Teams force turnovers, get out and run, take chances and try to tie or win. Teams with leads go into a prevent offense mode and often give up huge runs. Manu really helped that by turning the ball over during pivotal moments in the game.

Compare it to a marathon where two runners end up neck and neck 100 feet from the finish. They sprint and one overtakes the other by a nose. You can say that the marathon was won at the beginning, but the truth is that deficits can be overcome if you have time, and if you know you have a deficit. Once the end nears, the importance of decisions increases exponentially.

My argument- Manu wasn't to blame for the Spurs losing. His turnovers, turned to have less effect on us than it seems. His playmaking had a much more positive effect than it seems.

Skull-1 Manu's turnovers were absolutely 100% the reason we lost the Finals.

My numbers are 100 percent relevant and unbiased to those arguments. How can be essentially copying EPSNs play-by- play be biased? Just because you don't agree with my side doesn't mean I have a soft spot for Manu. I've historically been rather indifferent to him. Duncan was always my 1st, 2nd and 3rd favorite player.

By the way Most of Manu's turnovers occurred in the first the quarters of game 6, where we had clearly outplayed Miami. The reason, why they came back was the ineffective lineup that Pop trotted out for 5:30 Minutes of the forth. Keeping Duncan out there in place of Splitter for 3 minutes and then subbing Duncan out for Splitter and Neal or Green out for Parker would have allowed both of them to rest and keep a top offensive threat on the floor at all times.

I'm not trivializing the rest of the Spurs play to make Manu seem like a basketball god. He had more positive moments in the finals (more than anyone should reasonable expect from a high mileage 35 year old guard who is a le contending teams best play maker and 3rd option).

His performance actually is very similar to his regular season and almost identical to the previous 11-12 postseason (despite people believing that he played much better than he actually did that year) this is the new normal. Great play making (that creates alot of additional offense, and fairly high number in turnover rate. With occasional bursts of scoring spread out. He is much more suited for a forth or 5th option now. Leonard has to bridge the gap offensively.

I don't have a problem with your opinion, I just think its wrong.

[Skull-1]

And I think your opinion is wrong. Your stats don't show what happened. Not even close. Go rewatch the games. 6 and 7. His turnovers were just a part of it. Your moronic stats don't show the impact of Manu's overall inane decision making on our energy. On the extra possessions it gave Miami. On the demoralization it did to our team. On the points it cost our offense. Jacking up heat check threes he doesn't make any more, early in the clock when burning time is what we need to win.

Just like fouling Dirk. The dude left his headgear in the locker room.


Are you too stupid to see that nine shot clock violations are better than nine Manu turnovers? I won't even count the downtown bricks early in the shot clock.


Manu needs to be on a leash.

[cd021]

That's a misleading stat. You put it up there like he's solely responsible for that percentage of the offense, but he's not. Someone scored and got credit for the score, so they are responsible for the points. Take your 22% and give Manu what he deserves from it, not the full percentage. Even if you were liberal and gave him half, he's responsible for 11% of the total offense. That's about 1 of 10 guys. 22% is about 1 of 5 guys. Shouldn't he be responsible for at least 1 of the 5 on the floor since he's 1/3rd of the big 3?

A step by step guide ,and, it was in all of 6 lines. If someone can't read through 6 lines of fairly straightforward stuff and come away feeling mislead then so be it.

Taking his points his assists produced and add them to the point he actually scored and deduct them from the points scored off his turnovers.

He set a player up for an opportunity to score. I don't think its misleading at all. Coaches ramble on all the time about how their guards play making creates additional offense that can't easily be quantified. When Rondo went down with his ACL tear they showed graphics on ESPN and ESPN.com on how his assists made it so much easier on his teammates to score.

If you look at the play-by-play of all of his assists 10 of them were off of 3's . In game 3 his play making was a clear catalyst for our big run. His 6 assists helped create 15 points including a 3 for Green, and 2 for Neal.

True he didn't actually score the points he self but that's why they call them assists.

[Skull-1]

A step by step guide ,and, it was in all of 6 lines. If someone can't read through 6 lines of fairly straightforward stuff and come away feeling mislead then so be it.

Taking his points his assists produced and add them to the point he actually scored and deduct them from the points scored off his turnovers.

He set a player up for an opportunity to score. I don't think its misleading at all. Coaches ramble on all the time about how their guards play making creates additional offense that can't easily be quantified. When Rondo went down with his ACL tear they showed graphics on ESPN and ESPN.com on how his assists made it so much easier on his teammates to score.

If you look at the play-by-play of all of his assists 10 of them were off of 3's . In game 3 his play making was a clear catalyst for our big run. His 6 assists helped create 15 points including a 3 for Green, and 2 for Neal.

True he didn't actually score the points he self but that's why they call them assists.

Look at the passes that are off target resulting in either no shot or a turnover charged to the receiving player, geeze.

[cd021]

Interesting stuff here, thanks! That version of "Machine Gun" is genius.....

Thanks. Yeah this take of Machine Gun is awesome (I was lucky enough to find footage of it) that and Killing Floor (at Monterrey Pop) are my favorites of his live stuff.

[Sean Cagney]

Manu's postseason wasn't nearly as bad as it seems. He had good games in Game 3 and Game 6 of the GSW series and was a big part of Games 1,2 & 3 against the Lakers. He was also key in our Game 1, Game ,3 and especially Game 5, wins in the Finals. when you look solely at his scoring its isn't nearly as impressive.

Game 1- 13pts, 3 assists, 8 points off assists=21 total points

Game-3- 7 pts, 6 assists, 15 points off assists=22 total points

Game 5-24 pts, 10 assists, 25 points off assists=49 total points

Game-7- 18pts, 5 assists, 12 points off assists=30 total points

That is true. But I can't measure possessions that we never played offensively. My logic is that the turnovers he did have had, turned out to have minimal effect. The offensive he created far outweighed his mistakes. His turnovers wasn't the reason why Miami came back in game 6. Pop taking both Duncan, & Parker 5:30 minutes plus an full timeout, completely ruined our offense flow. Also benching Duncan with 28 seconds left.

Leaving Manu out there with Neal, Green, Splitter, & Diaw wasn't that smartest. Neal was the only other play who consistently can create offense for himself. Splitter and Green were ineffective and Diaw is much more effective playing with Duncan, Parker, Leonard and Green. That lineup was painful to watch, Miami could trap every single time Manu touched the ball and then could recover because Green can't dribble & Splitter can't seem to maneuver around a guard without getting blocked.

that's were the blame lies in my eyes. Pops decision making was baffling. Blaming Manu for game 6 isn't right IMO. His Game 7 was better than credited Parker struggled and he made plays and was the 3rd best Spur.

Still he did not play that well in the postseason and in the finals he was not that good at all, not hating but most see that and relize he was not good. He will tell you himself he did what he thought he could and tried but wished he did alot better, he said that himself! He was off, lets just leave it at that he was not himself. Last years Manu we got this! The one who could still get 30 plus in a game against OKC even, thing is that Manu was seemingly gone this year! We needed more of that. Either or I am sure he tried but he did not do that well and thats pretty much what it was. I am a fan of his and always will be and won't blame it all on him like some do, but he could have done more but that is life (A few could have done more IMO as well, namely Splitter).

[ca®lo]

Anyone making a list of manu's top 5 post season t.o.'s? not that hard to find. easily going to fill that list in game 6 alone

[PlayNando]

Umm... Game 6 happened not too long ago. You Manu s want to remember Manu for his past accomplishments even though they all happened 7 years ago so yeah.

stopid post iss stopid per apr bhg

[Skull-1]

Anyone making a list of manu's top 5 post season t.o.'s? not that hard to find. easily going to fill that list in game 6 alone

Right you are. Don't tell the homers or they'll block you. Actually, you won't notice or care if they do because their homerism isn't worth reading any way.

[xmas1997]

A step by step guide ,and, it was in all of 6 lines. If someone can't read through 6 lines of fairly straightforward stuff and come away feeling mislead then so be it.

Taking his points his assists produced and add them to the point he actually scored and deduct them from the points scored off his turnovers.

He set a player up for an opportunity to score. I don't think its misleading at all. Coaches ramble on all the time about how their guards play making creates additional offense that can't easily be quantified. When Rondo went down with his ACL tear they showed graphics on ESPN and ESPN.com on how his assists made it so much easier on his teammates to score.

If you look at the play-by-play of all of his assists 10 of them were off of 3's . In game 3 his play making was a clear catalyst for our big run. His 6 assists helped create 15 points including a 3 for Green, and 2 for Neal.

True he didn't actually score the points he self but that's why they call them assists.

Still he did not play that well in the postseason and in the finals he was not that good at all, not hating but most see that and relize he was not good. He will tell you himself he did what he thought he could and tried but wished he did alot better, he said that himself! He was off, lets just leave it at that he was not himself. Last years Manu we got this! The one who could still get 30 plus in a game against OKC even, thing is that Manu was seemingly gone this year! We needed more of that. Either or I am sure he tried but he did not do that well and thats pretty much what it was. I am a fan of his and always will be and won't blame it all on him like some do, but he could have done more but that is life (A few could have done more IMO as well, namely Splitter).

It does no good showing them the holes in their arguments because they don't listen to reason if it does not fit their blind vision of it.
They just want a scapegoat and try to upset you if you do not agree with them.
It is so much easier to just ignore list them than try to correct their trolling.
Thank you both for your intelligent insightful and truly informative posts.

[Skull-1]

It does no good showing them the holes in their arguments because they don't listen to reason if it does not fit their blind vision of it.
They just want a scapegoat and try to upset you if you do not agree with them.
It is so much easier to just ignore list them than try to correct their trolling.
Thank you both for your intelligent insightful and truly informative posts.

Slurp slurp. Glue glug glug.

[xmas1997]

Now is probably a good time to get back on the topic of this thread.
And that means you too, skull, so do it, quit your lolly gagging.
Also, it is time for you to quit following me around from thread to thread making a fool of yourself.

[dylankerouac]

followed by

[cd021]

Still he did not play that well in the postseason and in the finals he was not that good at all, not hating but most see that and relize he was not good. He will tell you himself he did what he thought he could and tried but wished he did alot better, he said that himself! He was off, lets just leave it at that he was not himself. Last years Manu we got this! The one who could still get 30 plus in a game against OKC even, thing is that Manu was seemingly gone this year! We needed more of that. Either or I am sure he tried but he did not do that well and thats pretty much what it was. I am a fan of his and always will be and won't blame it all on him like some do, but he could have done more but that is life (A few could have done more IMO as well, namely Splitter).

He shot poorly much of this post season, I'll say that much. I think that 34 point game gave people the allusion (initially, including myself) he had more left in the tank than he actually does. He has flashes of brilliance but now mostly plays within a s of his former self.

But I'll look forward to this season to see how Manu and the Spurs bounce back.

[xmas1997]

He shot poorly much of this post season, I'll say that much. I think that 34 point game gave people the allusion (initially, including myself) he had more left in the tank than he actually does. He has flashes of brilliance but now mostly plays within a s of his former self.

But I'll look forward to this season to see how Manu and the Spurs bounce back.

As will I.
Was he hurt in the finals? He acted like he was and only going at about half speed for Manu.

[Skull-1]

He shot poorly much of this post season, I'll say that much. I think that 34 point game gave people the allusion (initially, including myself) he had more left in the tank than he actually does. He has flashes of brilliance but now mostly plays within a s of his former self.

But I'll look forward to this season to see how Manu and the Spurs bounce back.

Illusion. Allusion is a reference to something else.

At least you admit he is a s of his former greatness. That is true.

[Skull-1]

As will I.
Was he hurt in the finals? He acted like he was and only going at about half speed for Manu.

He wasn't hurt. He was old and out of control.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

He wasn't hurt. He was old and out of control.

get laiiiiid dude

[Skull-1]

get laiiiiid dude

I did. That why I didn't post for four hours.

[xmas1997]

I did. That why I didn't post for four hours.

He was talking about to a woman, skull, not to another man like TE or the great yacht.
Oh well, to each his or her own.
Who am I to judge?

[Skull-1]

He was talking about to a woman, skull, not to another man like TE or the great yacht.
Oh well, to each his or her own.
Who am I to judge?

You can't judge seeing as how you sleep with men for money. At least TE, TGY, and I do it for love.

[cd021]

As will I.
Was he hurt in the finals? He acted like he was and only going at about half speed for Manu.

89 games in 7 months. Injured then rehab, work his way back into a grove and then injured again and repeat process.

I really think he was more mentally tired than anything.

We have to have a 3rd ball handler so Manu's burdened can be lessened. Without him on our bench, we would be pretty lackluster. Someone who can run p&r while he spots up (and essentially rests on offense for a possession or two).

[xmas1997]

Belinelli is reputed to be a creator. He could be the difference next time.