Manu Ginobilli's Five Most Amazing Passes

**Skull-1** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by xmas1997

Belinelli is reputed to be a creator. He could be the difference next time.

I doubt it, but a man can hope.

**SenorSpur** · 09-11-2013

Manu's subpar play, his terrible decision-making, and his costly turnovers in the playoffs - particularly the NBA Finals - cannot be sugar-coated or statistically justified. For the most part, he was terrible at crucial moments and Pop compounded matters by upping his minutes in the Finals.

He's got a firm track record for being the great player that he has been and the ultimate compe or. However, Manu also has a track record for taking the inexplicable, ill-advised risks (a la the Dirk foul) when it's not necessary. In the past, he had the ability to make up for some of those errors because of his superior talent and sheer will. Unfortunately for him and for us fans, that guy is no more. He's no longer a great player. He's a player, whose talent and skills are on the decling.

A lot of players, as they get older, find themselves having the play the games from the neck up. Meaning, whatever they've lost in skill level, they are forced to make up for in guile and experience. For them, the game becomes more mental than physical. In my opinion, for Manu to continue his role as a key contributor, it will be in bent upon him to shift his game to a more cerebral one, where he makes better decisions and not put his team at risk.

Having said all that, a thread on his most amazing passes isn't going to makeup for his recent transgressions nor will it make anyone forget how bad he was in the NBA Finals.

**diego** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

A lot of players, as they get older, find themselves having the play the games from the neck up. Meaning, whatever they've lost in skill level, they are forced to make up for in guile and experience. For them, the game becomes more mental than physical. In my opinion, for Manu to continue his role as a key contributor, it will be in bent upon him to shift his game to a more cerebral one, where he makes better decisions and not put his team at risk.

Agreed. But with manu two things happen on top of getting older. One is that fans still expect him to produce the same (especially reinforced by last year being the highest paid player on the team, which was more of a coincidence than anything else). Two is that despite his now smaller role (23.2 mpg and 9 FGA in the regular season), tony's injury + the heat defense forced him to do more when he no longer can (in the finals despite 20% more minutes, he actually had less FGA, less assists and less rebounds). Its easy to blame Pop for bumping his minutes, but who could have run the offense outside of tony and manu? Neal and Green are limited offensive players. There wasnt a better option. Pop maybe could have gone more to leonard in ISO situations, but I think that criticism is more for tony who didnt take advantage of the heat switching lebron on to him (particularly down the stretch of game 6 this is true).

I dont think anyone can deny manu had a bad finals, but its another thing entirely to pin the finals loss entirely on him, especially when you consider the opponent.

**xmas1997** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by diego

Agreed. But with manu two things happen on top of getting older. One is that fans still expect him to produce the same (especially reinforced by last year being the highest paid player on the team, which was more of a coincidence than anything else). Two is that despite his now smaller role (23.2 mpg and 9 FGA in the regular season), tony's injury + the heat defense forced him to do more when he no longer can (in the finals despite 20% more minutes, he actually had less FGA, less assists and less rebounds). Its easy to blame Pop for bumping his minutes, but who could have run the offense outside of tony and manu? Neal and Green are limited offensive players. There wasnt a better option. Pop maybe could have gone more to leonard in ISO situations, but I think that criticism is more for tony who didnt take advantage of the heat switching lebron on to him (particularly down the stretch of game 6 this is true).

I dont think anyone can deny manu had a bad finals, but its another thing entirely to pin the finals loss entirely on him, especially when you consider the opponent.

This is true! Manu and TD were both dead tired, and TP was slightly hurt and tired by that time. The only ones who seemed to have any energy were Kawhi and Green. But the Heat were also tired so I admit that is a flimsy excuse.
However the Heat were younger except for maybe Wade and could summon that second burst of energy.
Regardless, all the second guessing and recaps won't change anything.
The Heat won, the Spurs lost and there is now a brand new season coming up.
And you can bet the Heat want to cement their legacy by winning it all again.
Hopefully the outcome is different this time!

**Skull-1** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Manu's subpar play, his terrible decision-making, and his costly turnovers in the playoffs - particularly the NBA Finals - cannot be sugar-coated or statistically justified. For the most part, he was terrible at crucial moments and Pop compounded matters by upping his minutes in the Finals.

He's got a firm track record for being the great player that he has been and the ultimate compe or. However, Manu also has a track record for taking the inexplicable, ill-advised risks (a la the Dirk foul) when it's not necessary. In the past, he had the ability to make up for some of those errors because of his superior talent and sheer will. Unfortunately for him and for us fans, that guy is no more. He's no longer a great player. He's a player, whose talent and skills are on the decling.

A lot of players, as they get older, find themselves having the play the games from the neck up. Meaning, whatever they've lost in skill level, they are forced to make up for in guile and experience. For them, the game becomes more mental than physical. In my opinion, for Manu to continue his role as a key contributor, it will be in bent upon him to shift his game to a more cerebral one, where he makes better decisions and not put his team at risk.

Having said all that, a thread on his most amazing passes isn't going to makeup for his recent transgressions nor will it make anyone forget how bad he was in the NBA Finals.

cd021 seems to have forgotten. He has a "stat" for that.

Great post.

**SenorSpur** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by Skull-1

cd021 seems to have forgotten. He has a "stat" for that.

Great post.

I've thoroughly enjoyed your previous posts on this subject, as well.

**Skull-1** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

I've thoroughly enjoyed your previous posts on this subject, as well.

Thank you, sir.

**SenorSpur** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by Skull-1

Thank you, sir.

I especially liked the "6 shot-clock violations are better than 6 turnovers" comment.

**Skull-1** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

I especially liked the "6 shot-clock violations are better than 6 turnovers" comment.

Hard to argue against that when time is your enemy, especially facing a younger team.

Without time on the clock the other team can't make that last run to sink you.

Also, jogging up the court and setting the defense after a shot clock violation is a lot easier than sprinting to cover a fast break after a turnover.

**N0 LyF3 ScRuB** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

I especially liked the "6 shot-clock violations are better than 6 turnovers" comment.

LOL

**therealtruth** · 09-11-2013

Originally Posted by xmas1997

This is true! Manu and TD were both dead tired, and TP was slightly hurt and tired by that time. The only ones who seemed to have any energy were Kawhi and Green. But the Heat were also tired so I admit that is a flimsy excuse.
However the Heat were younger except for maybe Wade and could summon that second burst of energy.
Regardless, all the second guessing and recaps won't change anything.
The Heat won, the Spurs lost and there is now a brand new season coming up.
And you can bet the Heat want to cement their legacy by winning it all again.
Hopefully the outcome is different this time!

That's why Pop shortening the rotation made no sense. He was willing to gamble on Ginobili and lost. He should have done the same for Splitter.

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Manu's subpar play, his terrible decision-making, and his costly turnovers in the playoffs - particularly the NBA Finals - cannot be sugar-coated or statistically justified. For the most part, he was terrible at crucial moments and Pop compounded matters by upping his minutes in the Finals.

He's got a firm track record for being the great player that he has been and the ultimate compe or. However, Manu also has a track record for taking the inexplicable, ill-advised risks (a la the Dirk foul) when it's not necessary. In the past, he had the ability to make up for some of those errors because of his superior talent and sheer will. Unfortunately for him and for us fans, that guy is no more. He's no longer a great player. He's a player, whose talent and skills are on the decling.

A lot of players, as they get older, find themselves having the play the games from the neck up. Meaning, whatever they've lost in skill level, they are forced to make up for in guile and experience. For them, the game becomes more mental than physical. In my opinion, for Manu to continue his role as a key contributor, it will be in bent upon him to shift his game to a more cerebral one, where he makes better decisions and not put his team at risk.

Having said all that, a thread on his most amazing passes isn't going to makeup for his recent transgressions nor will it make anyone forget how bad he was in the NBA Finals.

The key point is Ginobili did more good than bad in the past. With his Finals performance on offense/defense it's hard to argue that's still the case. He was as bad or worse defensively as he was on offense.

**Skull-1** · 09-15-2013

Originally Posted by therealtruth

That's why Pop shortening the rotation made no sense. He was willing to gamble on Ginobili and lost. He should have done the same for Splitter.

The key point is Ginobili did more good than bad in the past. With his Finals performance on offense/defense it's hard to argue that's still the case. He was as bad or worse defensively as he was on offense.