Putin takes Obama's american exceptionalism speech and shoves it up his....

[lefty]

[LnGrrrR]

While Putin is an election-rigging, human rights violating, piece of , he has also brilliantly outmaneuvered Obama and simultaneously grown Russian power worldwide with his handling of Syria.

1. While standing with Syria, he has shown other countries that Russia will hang in and fight to support those with whom they are allied.
2. Anybody who thinks Putin wrote one letter of that well-crafted bit of rhetoric in the NYT is re ed (more likely the American desk at the FSB), but it doesn't change the fact that it was incredibly effective.
3. Russia is now being perceived as the power that forced America to back down from using force, and that perception is a massive loss for US credibility in the region.
4. Iran and N.Korea will take notice of this and adjust their strategies accordingly i.e. be willing to push further when the next crisis flares up (which it inevitably will)

Obama/Kerry/United States are being viewed simultaneously as an aggressor/waffler in this affair, while Putin has been utterly consistent in his support and rhetoric for Syria.

Little has changed in terms of reality, but reality is not always the main driver of diplomacy/allegiances in a region where power and loyalty are valued more than morality and human rights.

The United States is failing miserably right now, and it's beyond me how anyone can spin this as good for our long term interests. There is no consistency, no long term strategy, and a continued misunderstanding of how things work in the Middle East.

Meanwhile, Russia has made all the right moves. Whether you like them or not (I don't), they have strengthened their position in relation to their national self-interests, while the United States has harmed theirs immensely.

Exactly how much good has our vaunted "credibility" done for us so far, other than "force" our politicians into Middle Eastern wars in order to have both sides hate us afterwards?

If that is "power", then Russia is more than welcome to it. I am more than happy to have Putin defend that part of the world.

[symple19]

Exactly how much good has our vaunted "credibility" done for us so far, other than "force" our politicians into Middle Eastern wars in order to have both sides hate us afterwards?

If that is "power", then Russia is more than welcome to it. I am more than happy to have Putin defend that part of the world.

Not much. But where our credibility lies is in doing what we say we're going to do instead of waffling and sending mixed signals.

Basically, I agree with you. I'm trying to analyse what is actually happening as opposed to what I think should have happened in the first place. Hopefully that clears things up.

[ChumpDumper]

Bilderberg

Bilderberg is a hotel.

Name some people who you consider higher on the food chain than Obama.

[ChumpDumper]

Short term, sure, long term, I disagree.

America is seen as an aggressor, reactionary, and only acting in our own myopic interests, while Russia is seen as steadfast and a peacemaker, even if American saber rattling was the reality which brought compromise to the table. In the middle east, imo, the latter trumps the former.

This is how you are seeing these two countries.

What is your evidence the entire world is seeing it your way?

It's incredibly ironic to me that the Russians, in helping Assad, will ultimately be doing us a favor in the long term should the rebels fail.

How so?

[symple19]

This is how you are seeing these two countries.

What is your evidence the entire world is seeing it your way?

It's just my opinion based off what i've read. There's really not one particular piece I could direct you to.

How so?

I posted the below back in July. Still feel the same

The best thing to do here would be to do as little as possible. In a long term scenario, imo, a Sunni dominated Syria will further isolate Iran, push Iraq closer to Iran (because guess where all the militants are going to go when the conflict in Syria ends), make Hezbollah far more volatile and desperate, further destabilize Gaza and the West Bank, and embolden Sunni hardline elements within Egypt (especially in the Sinai).

[symple19]

Here ya go... Here's an article that more or less lines up with what I was saying

Originally from the AP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...45a_story.html

[m>s]

if putin and obama are both so bad let's lock them both up imho, i think we know who would be giving it to who in that scenario though

[Ignignokt]

Sheep. sheep everywhere.

[Ignignokt]

This is how you are seeing these two countries.

What is your evidence the entire world is seeing it your way?

How so?

It's not hard. Who gives a about a country being controlled by Assad vs Alqueda?

Why are we giving a ?

[SA210]

"Iranically, ayatolla this would happen. Oman, Iraq my Bahrain for a solution to this stuff. Don't laugh. This Shiite Israel!"

[SA210]

[ChumpDumper]

It's not hard. Who gives a about a country being controlled by Assad vs Alqueda?

Why are we giving a ?

are these rhetorical questions?

[Shastafarian]

[Wild Cobra]

Although Obama has overreached alot, he's never killed reporters, or political opponents

Are you talking about the KGB Putin of the CCCP/USSR, of the current Putin, the president of Russia?

People change with the hats they wear.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you talking about the KGB Putin of the CCCP/USSR, of the current Putin, the president of Russia?

People change with the hats they wear.

Except Putin killed all those people while president of Russia.

[Wild Cobra]

Except Putin killed all those people while president of Russia.

Serious? Is it as accurate as the list of people killed who knew Clinton?

Link please.

[ChumpDumper]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lled_in_Russia

In before you demand more "proof" your hero is behind many of the deaths.

[Wild Cobra]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...lled_in_Russia

In before you demand more "proof" your hero is behind many of the deaths.

Yes...

I already know this.

Where is the proof Putin had anything to do with those deaths? Most have no solid links. Russia is a dangerous place, and anyone could have killed them.

How about the deaths of people surrounding Clinton? Do you also claim Clinton is responsible for their deaths?

[ChumpDumper]

Yes...

I already know this.

Where is the proof Putin had anything to do with those deaths? Most have no solid links. Russia is a dangerous place, and anyone could have killed them.

As I predicted. You are defending Putin at all costs because you don't like Obama.

How about the deaths of people surrounding Clinton? Do you also claim Clinton is responsible for their deaths?

Desperately trying to change the subject now.

[m>s]

chump is a shining example of american exceptional gotry, defend chump defense!!!!

[ChumpDumper]

chump is a shining example of american exceptional gotry, defend chump defense!!!!

You are a shining example of a guy who failed in life and decided to blame it on others.

[Wild Cobra]

As I predicted. You are defending Putin at all costs because you don't like Obama.

No.

I defend the truth, and presenting allegations and innuendo as fact is very appalling to me.

I do not like Putin. However, I have a high degree of respect for him. I respect his leadership capabilities as much as Clinton, Reagan, Kennedy, etc. He is a fine leader, even though I do not like his leadership. You want to compare Obomba to him? Obomba is an idiotic child compared to Putin.

Desperately trying to change the subject now.

Not at all. I am saying that assigning the deaths to Putin is no more accurate than assigning the 50+ deaths claimed to Clinton. I am giving a very valid comparison.

[ChumpDumper]

No.

I defend the truth, and presenting allegations and innuendo as fact is very appalling to me.

Bull . Innuendo makes up a large percentage of what you post.

[Wild Cobra]

Bull . Innuendo makes up a large percentage of what you post.

Why are you speaking into a mirror?