General Trades Discussion

[td4mvp2k]

Lol picks for VC... F no! N def not to Fn Dallas!

[TD 21]

From a recent Lowe column: "Paul Allen has never wanted to rebuild," says Neil Olshey, Portland's GM. "He does not want to take three steps backward in order to take four steps forward. So we decided we were just going to have one foot in, and one foot out."

With that in mind . . .

To Hawks: Lopez, Freeland, Claver, one of Spurs 1st, rights to Bertans or Jean-Charles

To Trail Blazers: Splitter, Millsap, Antic, rights to Muscala, one of Spurs 1st, rights to Bertans or Jean-Charles

To Spurs: Aldridge

[Chinook]

That's too much for Aldridge, at least from a global perspective. Splitter and Millsap are both good enough to be centerpieces in a trade for him by themselves. Putting them together is just overkill. It's not a bad deal for the Hawks, as Millsap is essentially house money right now. I don't know enough about Freeland to say that he's the answer to their situation at the backup four, though.

For the Spurs, on one hand, they're only giving up Splitter now, so it's not a bad deal. On the other hand, they're losing pretty much every asset they have to rebuild. With Aldridge's health issues, I don't think he'd be that big of an upgrade to Splitter, especially in the long term. Speaking of LA's health, he'd probably be one of the Spurs whom Pop would baby during the regular season. With him replacing Splitter, the big rotation seems significantly weaker than before. Duncan would have no proven backup, and Aldridge wouldn't be able to play the 40 minutes that would be necessary to cover Duncan and start next to him. If this trade had happened early in the off-season, then the Spurs could have used their MLE to bring in another accomplished big instead of Pendergraph.

[elemento]

I feel it's way too good for SA actually. And bad for the rest.

Our 1st round picks are not appealing as long as Timmy is here. Both our prospects are coming from major knee injuries and even though Splitter is a decent Center, his value was much higher when his contract was a bargain. Now, not so much.

From the Hawks perspective, they're not getting anything exciting to give up Millsap so early. Lopez is a meh Center, Freeland is actually a bad contract (6m/2y) considering he isn't even a NBA material player (just ask any POR fan about him) and Claver is an end of the bench player.

From the Blazers perspective, they would rather have Aldridge and Lopez instead of Millsap and Splitter.

Lamarcus Aldridge would be a major upgrade over any BIG we have to pair with Timmy. If all it takes to get Aldridge is Splitter + late 1st picks and 2 prospects coming off major knee injuries, I am all over it.

[TD 21]

Chinook, Aldridge would probably play 4-5 mpg less in the regular season than he's accustomed to with the Spurs. Splitter is a better overall defender, but it's not as if he's a great defensive rebounder/rim protector either.

In terms of being a long term building block, he sure as beats Splitter and two middling prospects. His game should age well and a Parker/Aldridge/Leonard/Green core, with cap space to add to it, would keep the Spurs more than compe ive post Duncan/Ginobili. Besides, it's not as if they have any hope of doing better than him.

elemento, given that Allen has essentially mandated that the Trail Blazers be Bucks West, this is a good trade for them. The Hawks would probably be the tougher sell; their level of interest would depend on if they were high on any of Freeland, Claver (both had awful rookie seasons, but have long been considered solid prospects) or whichever of the Spurs assets they came away with. But if it required giving them whichever was leftover among the 1st/Bertans/Jean-Charles, I'd do it in a second.

[Chinook]

I don't think he beats out Splitter directly, let alone Splitter and four mid-level prospects. Splitter has a better contract (Tiago will probably make half of what Aldridge will make in 2015-2017) and a better prognosis for success beyond the next two seasons, as Aldridge's injuries are very troublesome even in the short term. For right now, I think you guys might be overestimating the upgrade that Aldridge is to Splitter, or at least the upgrade that Duncan/Aldridge/Diaw/Pendergraph is to Duncan/Splitter/Diaw/Pendergraph. While LA would have been a tougher match-up for Miami due to his offense, Splitter's mobility was essential to even being able to attempt to stay big against the Heat. Splitter's defense the other three series definitely seems more valuable to me than Aldridge's potential offense, as the Spurs scored very well.

As I said, though, the biggest problem I have is the timing. This trade would have looked a lot better to me earlier, as the team would have been able to gear free agency toward replacing Splitter's role as the backup center. Now (or actually after January 15, as that's the earliest Splitter can be traded), there's no real opportunity to do that, and there's even less opportunity to work the pieces in mid-season. I don't think it would raise the team's ceiling unless Baynes or Pendergraph breaks out and proves to be capable to filling Splitter's current role.

[elemento]

Chinook, Aldridge would probably play 4-5 mpg less in the regular season than he's accustomed to with the Spurs. Splitter is a better overall defender, but it's not as if he's a great defensive rebounder/rim protector either.

In terms of being a long term building block, he sure as beats Splitter and two middling prospects. His game should age well and a Parker/Aldridge/Leonard/Green core, with cap space to add to it, would keep the Spurs more than compe ive post Duncan/Ginobili. Besides, it's not as if they have any hope of doing better than him.

elemento, given that Allen has essentially mandated that the Trail Blazers be Bucks West, this is a good trade for them. The Hawks would probably be the tougher sell; their level of interest would depend on if they were high on any of Freeland, Claver (both had awful rookie seasons, but have long been considered solid prospects) or whichever of the Spurs assets they came away with. But if it required giving them whichever was leftover among the 1st/Bertans/Jean-Charles, I'd do it in a second.

I honestly think POR can do better than that. Splitter is massively overrated by some Spurs fans. Since day one I said he was a system player and he still is. Then I had to watch Spurs fans crying on ST because Splitter couldn't post up Derek Fisher in the playoffs. I don't even know who sold them the idea that Splitter was a good post up player.

Some SA fans actually underrate Pop's system and especially Duncan's impact on San Antonio's defense. SA's defense without Duncan wouldn't even sniff a place in the top10 defenses in the NBA. Splitter can complement Duncan in Pop's system, but without Duncan, Splitter is nothing more than an average Center in the NBA. I am Brazilian. I am the guy supposed to overrate Splitter like crazy, but I am not doing it for a reason. I'm not blind and I am not a homer.

Lamarcus Aldridge is an all-star PF in any kind of system, with any coach. One of the best PFs in the NBA. Not only SA would be better with Aldridge, but they would also be the favorites to win it all this season and I am including Miami here.

As I said before, I would do this trade in a heart-beat. Too bad Atlanta and Portland would hang up the phone in 5 seconds probably.

[Chinook]

No one should think Duncan isn't the anchor of the Spurs' defense. But he's not the complete defender he used to be. It's much more important for his front-court partner to be mobile and able to defend the pick-and-roll than it is for him to be an All-Star offensively. Splitter graded out as one of the best PnR defenders in the league last season, and his mobility was vital to the team's defensive effort in the playoffs. It's flat-out unfair to give Duncan credit for aspects of the Spurs' defense Splitter was responsible for. I agree, elemento, that without Duncan, the Spurs' defense would be below average. But without Splitter starting, the Spurs' defense WAS average. It's not overrating him at all to say he is a pretty high-level defender.

Instead of looking at it as a numbers thing or a talent thing, I think we should look at it in terms whom the acquisition of Aldridge for Splitter would help the Spurs beat. The answer from my point of view is not a whole lot definitively. It would definitely help if someone else would score in the post to allow Duncan to carry less of the load. But it's not like we're talking Al Jefferson in that regard. Duncan and Aldridge essentially play the same position on offense as jump-shooting bigs who can score inside.

But is Aldridge going to be able to switch on PnRs and hold his own like Splitter can? If he can't, then the Spurs are going to play right into the hands of the Thunder, Warriors and Clippers. Can Aldridge play post defense on physical bigs while also being able to stay with mobile fours? If not, then the Grizzlies and Pacers get an advantage. Lost in Splitter's Finals faux pas was the really solid effort he gave at guarding Bosh and James (through the first three games). Sure, Aldridge can score to make up for what the Spurs would lose defensively, but is offense really the starting unit's main problem?

[TD 21]

Chinook, Splitter is not in Aldridge's league and the odds of any of those prospects turning into anything of significance are slim. Even if one did, the team won't be near contention by the time they did anyway. Overall, this is a small price to pay for potentially winning a fifth championship and maybe even having an outside shot at a few years of contention post Duncan/Ginobili.

The Spurs couldn't stay big against the Heat because Splitter became unplayable. In fact, I'd argue the biggest reason they lost on a macro level (obviously they should have won in spite of this) was because of that. Aldridge had a poor year defensively last season, but he's usually a solid enough defender. He and Pendergraph would be more than fine as backup C options.

elemento, given their goal, I'm not sure they can do better. That would keep them both compe ive and flexible. I definitely don't overrate Splitter, but he does have good value and we know the Trail Blazers were interested; they just knew the Spurs would match unless their offer was astronomical.

For the Hawks, like I said, it would come down to how they value the prospects involved. If they were high enough on any of the Spurs', they might do it.

[anakha]

Aldridge had a poor year defensively last season, but he's usually a solid enough defender.

I'm gonna have to disagree here.

I've been looking at Aldridge's defensive numbers (including the advanced stats) on BBR, and I'm seeing that:

a) I'm not seeing any dip in his defensive numbers that suggest he had a worse-than-usual defensive season last year;
b) his defensive numbers (especially Defensive Rating) have him ranked in the lower half on the league consistently since his rookie season.

I know stats aren't the be-all and end-all of analysis, but I'm just not seeing anything to back up your assertion.

[TD 21]

I'm gonna have to disagree here.

I've been looking at Aldridge's defensive numbers (including the advanced stats) on BBR, and I'm seeing that:

a) I'm not seeing any dip in his defensive numbers that suggest he had a worse-than-usual defensive season last year;
b) his defensive numbers (especially Defensive Rating) have him ranked in the lower half on the league consistently since his rookie season.

I know stats aren't the be-all and end-all of analysis, but I'm just not seeing anything to back up your assertion.

It's mostly a subjective opinion of mine and some of the most knowledgeable writers that cover the league.

[anakha]

Fair enough.

Personally, I question how well Aldridge would fit next to Duncan - this is less of a knock on Aldridge and more of acceptance that Duncan increasingly needs a frontcourt partner who can handle the defensive tasks he's not really capable of managing by himself anymore.

[TD 21]

Aldridge is no plodder; he's mobile. In theory, he'd be a nice fit defensively next to Duncan. Whether he'd be an optimal fit or not would be a small price to pay for the sheer upgrade in talent he'd provide.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

While Aldridge is clearly way more talented than Splitter, I don't see how he'd fit next to Duncan both offensively and defensively. On defense the Spurs would get killed by the PnR and on offense Duncan would have to play more under the ring during the regular season, which is something Pop has avoided for a good few seasons now. Another issue is his contract and health.

That said, if you can get an all star big for Splitter and spare parts you do it and worry about fits later.

[mountainballer]

That said, if you can get an all star big for Splitter and spare parts you do it and worry about fits later.

this.
(aside the fact, that the whole LMA speculation is a typical pipe dream by fans)

[rascal]

Splitter and Manu were the anchor weights that kept the Spurs from winning number 5.

[Mugen]

Dream trade for this season is a 3way trade for Jeff Green tbh.

[Cklbmk]

I think a more realistic person is Evan Turner. No extension talks, new Gm cleaning house trying to tank.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I like the Morris twins potential in the Spurs system.

[Chinook]

I like Turner. I'm not sure they trade him. He's playing well in that system and he could be a great fit with Wiggins on the wings. He may get too big of a deal, though. He's playing out of his mind, and that could be fool's gold. For the right package, he's definitely not untouchable.

They need to trade Thad. He's just not a championship piece. Hawes like Turner is a keeper as he should fit in well with Noel. But if he doesn't want to stay, move him. I'm sure the Rockets would give up a pretty good haul for him.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

wes johnson from the lakers would fill the backup 3 spot just right. maybe he'll be a cheap trade option when kobe returns?

[DesignatedT]

I think Philly will trade Turner. Wish we could get our hands on him. He's obviously not in their long terms plans when they decided not to pick up his option. They aren't going to keep winning like they have and they are still in tank mode.

[DesignatedT]

I think Jameer Nelson will also end up being moved. An interesting possibility.

[Baam]

^ Google'd it and it comes from a decent source :

http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/p...me-to-be-dealt

The Magic, according to the latest rumbles, would surrender Nelson today if offered a future first-round pick for him. Orlando GM Rob Hennigan continues to chase draft picks and young assets above all else as he remakes the Magic.

The problem is that teams have never been more reluctant to surrender first-round picks -- and the cap-friendly contracts they carry -- than we see nowadays. Even a proven point guard like Nelson, who's making a reasonable $8.6 million this season and is owed only $2 million guaranteed next season, could struggle to command one in return.

Perhaps a contender will be willing to make that sacrifice as we get deeper into the season, needing that one final piece for a playoff push, but first-rounders and their precious rookie-scale contracts are, well, precious. Which is why Chicago never had a hope of acquiring a future first in exchange for young guard Marquis Teague no matter how hard the Bulls tried to get one for Teague throughout October.

Now a first in the strongest draft of the last ten years for a backup PG sounds silly especially when we had plenty of capspace this summer... I like him but it doesn't make much sense and his numbers have declined accross the board the last few years...

I don't see any trade on the horizon tbh, the two players that could be parted with imo were Green at peak value or letting Splitter walk to make some moves this summer... Both are most likely as good as they ever gonna get... The summer moves have just been real bad...

I wonder if they're really considering trading Green tho... Beli is pretty much a Manu-lite and Green is the only trade bait left along with Diaw (who imo is too precious to part with especially when you look at Tiago's career in the PO)...

Regarding Faried I found this : http://www.denverstiffs.com/2013/10/...eth-faried-con
A trade would seem to make a lot of sense but they're asking for a LOT... Oladipo... I'm pretty sure they're weak on the wings, so Green could interest them... 2 first + Green doesn't seems like it'd get it done... I'd take Fournier as well, he has a negative PER right now but he had a great season last year and can be the backup PG and 3rd SG...

[Chinook]

Still think the buyout market could be fruitful. I don't see a trade this season. If Diaw stays aggressive, the team has no holes. What I'd like to see them do is trade Desk Colo and/or Bonner for a young player who's fallen out of favor like Williams or Singleton.