Many here have been blaming Pop on why we dun foul up 3 with about 10secs to go, or even up 5 with 28secs to go. Let me break it down for you.
Possibilities when you just defend Up 3 with 10secs: 1) Opponent scores a contested three -> DRAW, overtime. 2) Opponent misses a contested 3 -> Win. Simple, unless we lose the rebound, den redo.
Possibilities when you def up 6 with 28secs to go. 1) As with the heat, scores 2 threes, foul and we score 1/2 free throw, overtime. 2) Miss or make both free throws and catch rebound, we win.
Basically, the most important factor: When defending, the clock RUNS.
When you foul up 3 with 10secs. 2 free throws for opponent, opponent fouls you, you make 1, its a 2 point game with ~6secs.
When you foul up 5 with 28secs. Opponent makes 2 free throws, you are up 3 with ~22-25secs left. opponent fouls you, you make 1/2 free throw, thats up 4 with 20secs. and it goes on and on, as the clock STOPS when you foul.
Generally, it should take the opponent <5secs to shoot a 3point when down, means you have to foul fast during the dribble as the opponent will not run the clock down before shooting.
Possible scenarios that may occur when you foul.
1) Becomes a shooting foul -> 3 FTs
2) Becomes a shooting foul and opponent makes the 3point shot -> 4point play
3) opponent makes the first free throw and intentionally miss the 2nd to get the rebound, make a 3 point -> 4 point play.
Basically, the difference, is that when you defend instead of fouling, the worst case scenario is going to overtime. When you foul, there are possible cases that make you lose in regulation. If you can be that unlucky that you opponent makes the contested three, who says that you wun be unlucky that the opponent makes a three while you try to intentionally foul him, or gets the rebound after a missed ft.
Foulers: 122 wins in regulation, 5 losses in regulation, 10 overtimes forced
Defenders: 598 wins in regulation, 2 losses in regulation, 77 overtimes forced from http://thebiglead.com/2013/02/12/ken...e-says-defend/
the chances of actually losing in regulation is much lesser when you defend than when you foul.
Moreover, defending has less scenarios to play out compared to fouling, and its relatively easier to practice. Are you sure you can trust your players to intentionally foul Lebron without Lebron pretending to take a shot while u foul him?
Just my own take on this, open up for discussion!
"Internationally, teams foul more, a strategy Manu Ginobili, who played in Argentina, occasionally broaches with Spurs Coach Gregg Popovich.
“Manu tells me about it all the time,” Popovich said. “I say: ‘Manu, I don’t have that type of guts. I’m not going to do it.’ ”"
Basically, pop chose the conservative way out, whereby its either win or overtime, rather than playing with the possibilities of losing.
Pop must have chosen to foul in that situation, it's to not let the heat any oportonity to tie the game instead of to let the heat oportonity to tie the game, to foul in that situation it basically to seal the le, if you foul in that situation the heat get 2 ft(under the pressure), than have to foul when you can increase the lead to 4 point game and also the heat with no time out to advance the ball... In that situation it's the most obvious you need to foul, but pop and the team collapsed and make bad decision!
You basically just said "didnt read"
imo you don't foul, trust your defense and it will get the job done 99% of the time
Agree, at some point is something like this (at least this it what i think you are saying):
Not foul: 40% Win - 10% Lose - 50% Overtime
Foul: 60% Win - 30% Lose - 10% Overtime
The no time outs for Miami, is a plus.
I dont know what the best way is, BUT, I dont know because I dont get paid to know. Now, if im in the Spurs coaching team, I KNOW what to do, at least I would have planned for many scenarios.
So the question is, did Pop make an intelligent decision or not? Was he ready or did he improvise?
Regular season cant start soon enough!!!
I have actually seen European teams foul up 2 at the end of games. It all depends on if you can foul a bad free throw shooter, if the opposing team has very good shooters and if you trust your defense to get that crucial stop. The shorter three point line in international play probably also should be taken into consideration.
As for the Spurs, I think not fouling was the right decision. Lebron is such a big guy that he could pull off a 4 point play.
The reason why international teams are fouling in these cases is because refs don't call the game the same way:
- In FIBA, refs don't call shooting fouls unless the player is really in his shooting motion.
- In NBA, refs usually grant a shooting foul if the player raise his arms and try to shoot just after the foul is commit.
So in FIBA, you can foul because there are little risk to see the other team getting 3 free throws.
In NBA, you don't foul because it can turn into 3 FT or even a 3 pointer and a FT.
No, I'm just saying you are wrong...You basically just said "didnt read"
There is no chance in the world the refs would have called a shooting foul on the spurs if they foul lebron at the half court or while he dribbling..
Nvm, I refuse to get into a discussion with a troll. You basically just said nth in your post, just that you disagree. Whats there for me to argue?
We should've just missed an extra free throw.
If we're up 2, Miami goes for 2. No long rebound, we grab it, we're champs.
Should've just choked even more, but instead we choked just the perfect amount.
...Unless the offensive player makes the basket.
Lol, do we have the actual statistics on this?
fouling is not a smart way to go.
a) first of all, we missed 2 free throws in our last 4 attempts. why get into a free throw shootout and gift them points when we aren't making ours consistently?
b) free throws can also lead to offensive rebounds. its not like fouling them takes that opportunity away. making 1 free throw, missing the second and getting the rebound isn't out of the realm of possibility
c) you are extending the game, which is exactly what Miami wants anyway. by allowing them to look for a shot, you are also allowing valuable seconds to tick off the clock. or you could wait and try to guess when to foul at which point they could be going up for a 3 point shot. remember in these playoffs, paul george tied a game by making 3 free throws.
d) what if Pop went for the foul strategy and we lost the ensuing free throw shootout. you would all say "oh look its pop overcoaching again per par tbh imo fwiw"
all that being said, fouling them on an offensive rebound would have been a smart idea. you know that if they get an offensive rebound, the defense is likely going to be (and was, twice) in scramble mode. fouling on the rebound is a good last ditch plan. i guess hindsight is 20/20 though. i even understand subbing Duncan out on the first trip. that had been implemented in earlier games throughout the season and in the playoffs, and worked fine. on that first series, bosh wasn't even in the game. it was LeBron, Allen, Wade, Chalmers, and Miller. I understand having Duncan out. in fact, it was on that sequence where the rebound was being tipped all over the place and we had a good opportunity to secure it.
on the second possession though, they replaced Miller with Bosh. in that situation, Duncan should have checked in. it was that second offensive rebound where Bosh ended up with it, simply because he was the only big on the floor. if you watch the replay (it hurts, i know) you can see bosh just go up and get the rebound between 3 spurs because he was too big. if Duncan is in the game, he gets that rebound, or at least prevents bosh from making a clean catch and pass.
end of the day, despite every move you may agree or disagree with, we had some luck. Manu missed a free throw that would have iced the game. kawhi missed a free throw that would have iced the game. the shots take a slightly different bounce EITHER time and we come away with a rebound and a chip. some bad bounces, a great shot by allen, and 2-4 free throw shooting in the last 30 seconds.
Have you ever heard in a post-game interview with a player (in a game with shaky officiating) if they ask the player "do you think the refs cost you the game" or something along those lines. the athlete will often answer "we shouldn't have put ourselves in that situation in the first place." i feel the same with how the 4th unfolded. were their mistakes made in hindsight? yeah. but missing TWO free throws, EITHER of which would have iced the le, is what bothers me the most. not the subs/fouls/etc
That is right to a 2 point game situation, you really didn't understand the different if it's a 3 point game situation? There is nothing to do with the "trust your defense" motto...
What kills me about Game 6 and nobody says anything about it is that Kawhi Leonard was not even touched when he got fouled to shoot the two free throws at 20.1 seconds yet the ing refs still called a foul on Mike Miller.
Seriously, why doesn't anyone ever bring this up? Why?
Why did Pop and Manu have to up this championship???
Nobody fouls with a two point lead moron, no . And yes it does, obviously an emo wrist cutter like yourself knows nothing about basketball, but being up 3 and fouling gives the other team a chance to make a free throw and miss the second intentionally for the rebound/tip. Trust your defense to defend the three pointer and 99% of the time your defense wins out. Quit being such a whiny about an outlier that occurred in the finals, get the over it already, you're the biggest crying pussy on this site and that's really saying something
you ing stupid, you just trying at all costs to justify spurs bad decision(no metter how you want to look at it, foul at that situation is the obviously best decision), your comment is just too pathetic even though you trying to act tough with that language...
Tell us more about how a basketball game ruined your life, turned the world grey, and set you into a deep depression in which you contemplated suicide you whining pussy. Please do ST a favor and end your pathetic life already
Chump has asked him countless times why he hasn't ended it yet.
Yup. At the end of day, Pop and Manu are mostly responsible for blowing the championship. Not even writing a whole novel about Game 6 will convince us non-homers Spurs fans that the Spurs lost because of " luck" or because Kawhi missed a free throw. People aren't stupid. Thanks God I'm not a blind homer.fouling is not a smart way to go.
a) first of all, we missed 2 free throws in our last 4 attempts. why get into a free throw shootout and gift them points when we aren't making ours consistently?
b) free throws can also lead to offensive rebounds. its not like fouling them takes that opportunity away. making 1 free throw, missing the second and getting the rebound isn't out of the realm of possibility
c) you are extending the game, which is exactly what Miami wants anyway. by allowing them to look for a shot, you are also allowing valuable seconds to tick off the clock. or you could wait and try to guess when to foul at which point they could be going up for a 3 point shot. remember in these playoffs, paul george tied a game by making 3 free throws.
d) what if Pop went for the foul strategy and we lost the ensuing free throw shootout. you would all say "oh look its pop overcoaching again per par tbh imo fwiw"
all that being said, fouling them on an offensive rebound would have been a smart idea. you know that if they get an offensive rebound, the defense is likely going to be (and was, twice) in scramble mode. fouling on the rebound is a good last ditch plan. i guess hindsight is 20/20 though. i even understand subbing Duncan out on the first trip. that had been implemented in earlier games throughout the season and in the playoffs, and worked fine. on that first series, bosh wasn't even in the game. it was LeBron, Allen, Wade, Chalmers, and Miller. I understand having Duncan out. in fact, it was on that sequence where the rebound was being tipped all over the place and we had a good opportunity to secure it.
on the second possession though, they replaced Miller with Bosh. in that situation, Duncan should have checked in. it was that second offensive rebound where Bosh ended up with it, simply because he was the only big on the floor. if you watch the replay (it hurts, i know) you can see bosh just go up and get the rebound between 3 spurs because he was too big. if Duncan is in the game, he gets that rebound, or at least prevents bosh from making a clean catch and pass.
end of the day, despite every move you may agree or disagree with, we had some luck. Manu missed a free throw that would have iced the game. kawhi missed a free throw that would have iced the game. the shots take a slightly different bounce EITHER time and we come away with a rebound and a chip. some bad bounces, a great shot by allen, and 2-4 free throw shooting in the last 30 seconds.
Have you ever heard in a post-game interview with a player (in a game with shaky officiating) if they ask the player "do you think the refs cost you the game" or something along those lines. the athlete will often answer "we shouldn't have put ourselves in that situation in the first place." i feel the same with how the 4th unfolded. were their mistakes made in hindsight? yeah. but missing TWO free throws, EITHER of which would have iced the le, is what bothers me the most. not the subs/fouls/etc
You meant to say bandwagon here today gone tomorrow Spurs fans!
We have your number!
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