Reply With Quotewhy would i want to take pebbles from your hand, Ray Charles?
lol
when you can take the pebbles from my hand - grasshoppa!
why would i want to take pebbles from your hand, Ray Charles?
Ignore the twits, Silver. It ain't worth it brah. Put them on ignore and move along. Don't throw pearls after swine.
It doesn't matter! The oldest texts contain a ton of error independent of anything done in the councils. They are FLAWED do ents! This is clear on its face just looking at them.
I have quite an intimate knowledge of the early church and the early church fathers (Martyr, Origen, Clement, Jerome, etc. etc. etc. along with their writings) in the generations immediately following Paul and the Disciples. It is rather irrelevant to the discussion of the truth of the Gospel of Christ.
The Epistles, already effectively canonized shortly after their inception in a collected format--and circulated--line up fine with the Law and Prophets as well as the Gospels. (YES YES I KNOW, PAUL WAS A CON MAN WHO HIJACKED THE FAITH AND MADE UP A FALSE GOSPEL. WE HAVE BEEN LED ASTRAY!! LMAO!) Cry in your beer about Hammadian Gnosticism, Zorostrianism, et. al. (the Gospel of John is considered Gnostic so there's that...don't recall offhand anything Earth-stopping about the Arian sects but I guess I can refresh my memory later). Strain away bubba. Don't blow out an o-ring.
The OT is parable and prophecy that Christ and Paul embraced. Whether or not some gnostic queen saved Noah in the flood is rather irrelevant as it never happened any way. It is a parable and a prophecy of Christ. Would such a detail change the spiritual aspect of what is presented? I rather doubt it.
(You will never be convinced, and I clearly do not have any further interest in wasting my time on you with things I settled within myself twenty years ago and have brushed aside in the pursuit of other knowledge. I have heard it all. Read it all. I am perfectly satisfied with my position, and know for a fact you will not reveal anything to me I haven't already seen.)
This discussion is over. The OP has been corrected numerous times on his error and obstinance but refuses to listen. Therefore I bid this thread adieu.
Last edited by Skull-1; 09-30-2013 at 09:18 PM.
more name dropping without an iota of logic, reasoning, or proof.
Christianity has all manner of gnostic tenants but that is besides the point. You bid the thread adieu from an intellectual standpoint a long time ago. You keep throwing against the wall but have yet to make a case or even really a point. I'm not giving you the canned Paul is really Saul argument but you trot that out anyway. You go by the name popular technology as well?
I am not here to convince you. I am here to explain why I think you are wrong. There is a difference. The difference is that while I consider you part of my audience, you are not my audience. What you claim to know is irrelevant as are the names you drop and the like assertion that you spew instead of argument. If you could give me verifiable proof on God I would be convinced. You are convinced regardless of proof so there is no swaying you. Look at the view counts on this thread. That is my audience.
So far you are a science fiction author who is friends with Newton's chair and astronauts. When I call you on it you threaten with 'you will pay one day.' Your smarmy 'I know something you can never know' at ude is the same thing you find in Scientology 'clinics.' You even behave like Hoffman in the master does when he is questioned about his 'religion.' Your megalomania even extends to comparing your treatment to that of your god. Lies intended to generate credibility and authority poor out of you like from a horse. You absolutely reek of an axis-1 disorder.
Troll or not I like what you are doing here. You do a very good job of underscoring just how asinine and unfounded your position is.
That wasn't a threat. It was a promise. Cursing God's messengers comes with a price. I am not the one who cashes that check, therefore I am incapable of threatening anyone. And the scripture tells me that I must suffer like my Master to be His disciple. That is about as close to comparing myself to Jesus as I will get. I will leave it there. You obviously failed reading comprehension so it is futile to explain what that means. Whoosh. Right over your thick head is where it would go.
As for the rest, I don't have to prove God. He already did that. You believe what you wish, but your straw men don't alter my faith a bit. You have your god and I have mine.
Prove there is no God. You can't.
I have shredded you and your supposed arguments to bits. You just dismiss the point with weak insults, unfounded smears, and false characterizations. So be it. I do not care what some anonymous internet toughguy bag thinks. I truly don't.
See you in the Judgment (or not). It will be what it will be.
Last edited by Skull-1; 09-30-2013 at 10:02 PM.
Lack of self control noted.
You cannot prove a negative with an open ended or infinite set. You don't demonstrate anything with the 'prove he doesn't exist' blather.
I have never even contended that there is not a god anyway. Try and keep up.
Claiming that you have shredded my argument does not make it any more true than your name dropping. If you would like some help on how to form and present an argument then I will be more than happy to help. Here are some hints as to what arguments are not:
1) I know X and X is an expert.
2) X could explain it so go here.
3) I know X, Y, Z, A, B, and C. --no one gives a what you know. what matters is how it applies to the discussion at hand.--
4) I shredded X.
lol 72 posts in this thread
What's unfounded is claiming to know Hawking and astronauts. Your response to my discussion of the time interval of the various councils and the events at hand were 'cry about it if you want' and 'I know x, Y, and Z.' At no point did you provide an reasoning or logic.
And my basis for an axis 1 disorder is compulsive lying to generate authority. An inability to see other's viewpoints. Harboring thoughts of an eventual demise of other's. And the self-assured smuugness that you hide behind in place of reason. It's typical. Your type stands out like a leper.
These are some of the traits I am talking about. Would you like to discuss specifically how they apply?React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation
Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals
Have excessive feelings of self-importance
Exaggerate achievements and talents
Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
Need constant attention and admiration
Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy
Have obsessive self-interest
Pursue mainly selfish goals
Obviously missed the rhetorical statement/challenge. The question to the crowd. YOU keep up, clown.
1) I know what I know and know people who know it better than I do....and since I know it better than you do....so do they. Some I learned from them directly. My background, like the commandment, is exceedingly broad.
2) I don't care to waste my time explaining it so here are some resources to help you teach yourself. I have better things to do than waste time on the insincere.
3) I am not discussing it. I am telling you what I know which leads back to 1 so learn and catch up. Until then stfu.
4) I shredded you and Blake more than once and pointed to plenty of places you can fix your error. I don't care to waste my time on those who can't hear or see. If I thought you were sincere, I would perhaps engage. But I have better uses for my time as things stand.
The OP got his answer and rejected it. The rest is static.
Last edited by Skull-1; 10-01-2013 at 07:56 PM.
I explained that. The time interval isn't relevant because of many factors that long predate said councils. Study it yourself. I am not getting into it. I researched it extensively over many many years and am satisfied that it does not change anything regarding the Gospel unless you believe such conspiracies as "Paul hijacked the faith" and other such...
My authority comes from the scripture and my insight into it. It is not my doing and, simply, you are likely outside my authority. I am sure Blake is outside it.
I see other viewpoints--I have held quite a few of them indeed in my lifetime as my views have evolved--but when they are wrong I reject them.
Call it fatigue. I have battled people like you for decades. Insincere, lying, rabble rousing little sh--s who stir up needless controversies for kicks. Perhaps if I believed you were sincere the engagement would take a different form. But it seems evident you aren't and so I have no desire to waste hour upon hour explaining my position. Research it yourself.
Also, to be frank, subjects I mastered long ago have atrophied from disuse. I would rather focus on my current disciplines than in reinvigorating those I have moved beyond long ago. With age comes a lack of energy. I must conserve mine.
I am concerned with enforcing my faith. Those outside are not my concern or responsibility.
The robe is red or purple. Doesn't matter.
The principle is neither concerned with nor altered by color.
Last edited by Skull-1; 09-30-2013 at 11:04 PM.
check. the constant mindless jibes speak for themselves. It's reflexive. Your need to invoke others for authority speaks to lack of self confidence.React to criticism with rage, shame, or humiliation
Cannot really comment on this beyond the name dropping. Time has been short and no one is going to position themselves to be used by a weirdo such as yourself.Take advantage of other people to achieve his or her own goals
goes withHave excessive feelings of self-importance
I know that you claim to be an expert on everything possible and know everyone important in your litany of bull but it is what it is.Exaggerate achievements and talents
You are god's chosen one and made to suffer as does jesus. your need to conflate yourself with your deity has already been noted.Be preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
You suffer as has jesus you've told us.Have unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
While it is clear you have no interest in admiration you do seem unable to stop yourself from responding to attention.Need constant attention and admiration
You have straight out told us that you don't care what we have to say. That you know what you know and that your authority is unquestionable. You begin to see how these things inteerrelate. You 'suffer' others.Disregard the feelings of others, and have little ability to feel empathy
For all of your talk on God there is a whole lot of you talking about what and who you know. About how you are going to judged come the rapture etc. What can your god do for you seems to be your motto. YOUR SPECIAL!Have obsessive self-interest
I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish so I cannot speak to this.Pursue mainly selfish goals
Skull I really wish you would conduct yourself differently...yes I know Jesus was harsh at time with the Pharisees and God was at times too but seriously bro nobody is going to listen to your knowledge the way you come across. Have you lead anyone to Christ this way? I am impressed with your knowledge, even though I don't always agree with you, but sometimes reading what you say is difficult due to the amount of harshness, not the level of which you write. I really wish you came across differently because then people might actually be led to Christ through you...by not only your knowledge but because you can express it with some semblance that you care about their eternal destinies. I, like God, wish for no one to perish. When I was converted I developed an unexplainable concern and caring for those I've never even met before. If anyone wants a real discussion without getting into meaningless details I'd love to have one...I may not know as much as Skull but think you'll find me easier to talk to...but the heart behind the discussion is important...the veil that skull references is that yall read the Bible...or websites referencing it...with a critical spirit just seeking to find contradictions or errors....if you sought out sources from a Christian website/perspective which show that Bible is error and contradiction free and you are reading because you are actually seeking to find God and purpose to life then you might actually find that ah ha moment and we might be able to have a real discussion.
Bull . I see you doing a lot of claiming that arguments have been made or that facts are known and very little in the way of arguments being made of facts being explained.
Now you talk of 'fatigue.' All you seem to be are cop outs and bull . If you want to believe what you want to believe its a free country but this type of is just stupid.
Over 3 centuries pass between Jesus death and your chosen texts. That is not irrelevant just because you say so.
you lost me at Blake
Again not as technical as skull but here's some quick info...especially show that writings have been found less than 3 centuries separated:IS THE BIBLE RELIABLE?- Superior to any other Ancient Writing
The Bible is a historical do ent. Interestingly enough, if you subject it to the same tests that you subject other historical do ents to, you’ll discover that the Bible proves itself to be far superior to any other ancient writing.
IS THE BIBLE RELIABLE?- The New Testament
First, let’s look at the New Testament which, incidentally, was originally written in the Greek language between 50 and 100 A.D. Although we don’t have the original autographs, there are presently some 5,000 Greek manuscripts in existence, with as many as 25,000 more copies. Just as amazing is the fact that the earliest manuscripts can be dated back as far as 120 A.D. This is tremendous when you consider that only seven of Plato’s manuscripts are in existence today — and there’s a 1,300-year gap which separates the earliest copy from the original writing!
IS THE BIBLE RELIABLE?- Unaltered!
Equally amazing is another fact; and that is, that the New Testament has been virtually unaltered. This has been demonstrated by scholars who have compared the earliest written manuscripts with manuscripts written centuries later. And remember, the accounts in the New Testament were recorded directly by eyewitnesses, (or by those who were associated with them) and in fact had close contact with the events themselves.
IS THE BIBLE RELIABLE?- The Old Testament
But what about the Old Testament? Let’s take a quick look at one of the most incredible finds of the century — the Dead Sea Scrolls. With the discovery of these manuscripts at Qumran in 1946, texts were found that were about 1,000 years older than any previously-known Old Testament manuscript. And when compared with the later texts, these writings proved to be virtually identical.
IS THE BIBLE RELIABLE?- Archaeology Verifies Scripture’s Trustworthiness
With every turn of the archaeologist’s spade, we see further evidence of Scripture’s trustworthiness. Such renowned and historical scholars as William Albright and Sir Frederick Kenyon have clearly testified that the findings of archaeology have served to underscore the authenticity of the Bible.
If I'm not mistaken my limited research showed the Bible has more historical manuscripts written closer to the time the events actually happened than writings on Cesar, Homers writings and a few others that nobody takes up issue with...so basically if you throw out Bible's reliability there's many other historical writings we're going to have to toss out...here's another little blurb on the differences in the historical writings...you'll see the differences are not things that are significant enough to lose the actual meanings or disregard the book as a whole: In fact, interestingly enough when the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered at Qumran, they predated the earliest extant text — the Masoretic text by almost one thousand years — yet in spite of this vast span of time, there was no substantive difference at all…..In fact, in looking at Isaiah 53 there were only 17 changes between the Masoretic text and those found at Qumran — 10 involved spelling, 4 style and 3 involved the Hebrew letters for the word light in verse 11. However, none of these differences were substantive — God has indeed preserved His Word
I lead a few. Very few. I tried the kind and patient route and it had the same abysmal success rate. I throw out the answers and the occasional person in the pile reaches out. I work with them in love and patience and a few have their eyes opened. The rest fall by the wayside.
You might be one of the few who stays the course. Maybe....
But it is painful. Irritating. Difficult. Idols indoctrinated since childhood have to be exposed and dismissed. Pulling out the tares is NOT FUN for anyone involved, but it is important.
Fuzzynuts and Flake are moronic bags. They don't desire the truth and I don't desire to waste my time on them.
They're not my problem.
All with a sincere desire to learn shall find me patient and kind. The rest will get the sword. I have an accurate Bullsh-t detector which is why lumpyfuzznuts and flake got skewered quickly. I persisted longer than I should for the sake of those reading. Perhaps someone will be led to truth by my persistence.
Those with ears let them hear.
Last edited by Skull-1; 09-30-2013 at 11:53 PM.
it's funny because if you used half the time you spend scrutinizing over details embodied in a cult do ent about a man who has no historical evidence of existing outside of religious ins ution in order to better yourself as a person, you'd realize that arguing on the internet is not the way to live the fulfilling life that the very do ent preaches.
Luke 18:9-14
/thread
and yes Jesus still says OP is a got
You may hate the Bible trumpeters and not believe in a God it's your right, but keep in mind many Scientists and well respected Historians over the years admit the Bible is an still a credible source of records from the past.
You miss the point of the parable. But a nice try. At least you made the effort which I applaud.
Exalting of self (which I do not do, crazy as that sounds to some) has quite a precise definition, but, again....the meaning of the parable is veiled.
Fulfilling life....that's suffering. Not prospering. Fulfillment is not what the world believes it to be.
I believe Jesus is referenced in non-biblical records but it has been awhile. History has been fairly consistent in its belief and consensus that He was indeed a real figure. The notion that He was not real as a person is not very widely held among secular historians so.....
Last edited by Skull-1; 10-01-2013 at 12:15 AM.
Non-biblical accounts of New Testament events and/or people
Following is a list of extra-biblical (outside of the Bible) references of biblical events, places, etc. The list is not exhaustive but is very representative of what is available.
1.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?, a Jewish historian) mentions John the Baptist and Herod - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 5, par. 2A."Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist: for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing [with water] would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away [or the remission] of some sins [only], but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness."
2.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions Jesus - Antiquities, Book 18, ch. 3, par. 3.A.Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, (9) those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; (10) as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.i.There is debate among scholars as to the authenticity of this quote since it is so favorable to Jesus. For more information on this, please see Regarding the quotes from the historian Josephus about Jesus
3.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions James, the brother of Jesus - Antiquities, Book 20, ch. 9.A."Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done."
4.Flavius Josephus (AD 37?-101?) mentions Ananias the High Priest who was mentioned in Acts 23:2A.Now as soon as Albinus was come to the city of Jerusalem, he used all his endeavors and care that the country might be kept in peace, and this by destroying many of the Sicarii. But as for the high priest, Ananias (25) he increased in glory every day, and this to a great degree, and had obtained the favor and esteem of the citizens in a signal manner; for he was a great hoarder up of money
B.Acts 23:2, "And the high priest Ananias commanded those standing beside him to strike him [Paul] on the mouth."
5.Tacitus (A.D. c.55-A.D. c.117, Roman historian) mentions "Christus" who is Jesus - Annals 15.44A."Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous supers ion, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular."i.Ref. from http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.mb.txt
6.Thallus (Circa AD 52, eclipse of the sun) Thallus wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time. His writings are only found as citations by others. Julius Africanus, who wrote about AD 221, mentioned Thallus' account of an eclipse of the sun.A."On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun."i.Is this a reference to the eclipse at the crucifixion? Luke 23:44-45, "And it was now about the sixth hour, and darkness fell over the whole land until the ninth hour, 45 the sun being obscured; and the veil of the temple was torn in two."
ii.The oddity is that Jesus' crucifixion occurred at the Passover which was a full moon. It is not possible for a solar eclipse to occur at a full moon. Note that Julius Africanus draws the conclusion that Thallus' mentioning of the eclipse was describing the one at Jesus' crucifixion. It may not have been.
iii.Julius Africanus, Extant Writings, XVIII in the Ante Nicene Fathers, ed. by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973), vol. VI, p. 130. as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.
7.Pliny the Younger mentioned Christ. Pliny was governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. Pliny wrote ten books. The tenth around AD 112.A."They (the Christians) were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food but food of an ordinary and innocent kind."i.Pliny, Letters, transl. by William Melmoth, rev. by W.M.L. Hutchinson (Cambridge: Harvard Univ. Press, 1935), vol. II, X:96 as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.
8.The TalmudA."On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favor, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!"i.Gal. 3:13, "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree."
ii.Luke 22:1-2, "Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was approaching. 2And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how they might put Him to death; for they were afraid of the people."
iii.This quotation was taken from the reading in The Babylonian Talmud, transl. by I. Epstein (London: Soncino, 1935), vol. III, Sanhedrin 43a, p. 281 as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.
9.Lucian (circa 120-after 180) mentions Jesus. Greek writer and rhetorician.A."The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. . . . You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property."i.Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 1113, in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, transl. by H.W. Fowler and F.G. Fowler, 4 vols. (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949), vol. 4, as cited in Habermas, Gary R., The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, (Joplin, MO: College Press Publishing Company) 1996.
ii.Though Lucian opposed Christianity, he acknowledges Jesus, that Jesus was crucified, that Christians worship him, and that this was done by faith.
because the 'correct' point of the parable is only correct in how you interpret it? you're exalting yourself by believing that only you have a connection to the word because you're so righteous. get over your holier than thou at ude, and maybe people will take you seriously.
I humble myself to the point that I'm doing God's will and not my own...and that's to spread the Gospel...and let me tell you it has been more fulfilling than the life of sin I was living before
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