Bulls: Michael Jordan says he’d beat LeBron James in one-on-one

[ambchang]

are you re ed?

I think he is, because ....

Theres so much truth in this post.

Lebron was a regular season warrior. I keep asking his Stans this question but they all ignore it. How is it that lebrons numbers across the board dips in the playoffs (ppg rpg apg fg% ts% and per) when the opposite can be said to greater players like Kobe,mj

Kobe's ppg, rpg, apg, fg%, ts% and PER (better numbers bolded):
RS -25.5/5.3/4.8/.454/.555/23.4
PO - 25.6/5.1/4.7/.448/.541/22.4

Lebron:
RS - 27.6/7.3/6.9/.49/.575/27.6
PO - 28.1/8.6/6.7/.472/.567/27.3

In case you are wondering, Lebron's "crappy" playoff numbers > Kobe's "stellar" playoff numbers.

[ambchang]

Lebron James 2013 NBA Finals


Game 1
18 Points 43% Shooting- Spurs Win

Game 2

17 pts 41% Shooting Spurs Loss


Game 3

15 pts 33% Shooting Spurs Win

Game 4

33 Pts 60% Shooting Spurs Loss

Game 5

25 Pts 33% Shooting Spurs Win

Game 6

32 Pts 42% Shooting- Spurs shoulda won


Right then and there, since Lebron Stans like playing What if. Lebron's legacy would've been 1 win 4 Finals trips, with the GOAT shooting a historic high 42% from the field

For the mathematically challenged, 33% > 6/24, or 25%. Unless, of course, 25% is actually > 33% because Kobe shot more

[Killakobe81]

O

I thought he said Lebron > Kobe, but that he would want to WIN with Kobe because the way Kobe worked. Larry Bird straightout said Lebron was the better player. I am not exactly sure where he said Kobe > Bird.

http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/s...rs-kobe-bryant




Totally different comparison. Bird's peak was way better than Kobe's, and Bird's longevity at his peak wasn't that much shorter than Kobe's. Bird peaked for about 5 years, same as Kobe. Just that sports "medicine" has improved so much to prolong Kobe's career.

As noted in the other thread of Duncan vs. Hakeem, once you factor in pace, Duncan and Hakeem's peak was pretty much the same. People look at raw numbers and assumed Hakeem was better, but Duncan was about the same in terms of offensive responsibilities. While I admit that, at his peak, Hakeem was the better defensive player, Duncan was much more versatile in terms of building a team around.

Sports medicine, compe ion, voter bias, etc ..
Team accomplishments. Different compe ion. 2nd banana vs. alpha.
Why? Why aren't 1st and 2nd team All NBA players overrated?
In 3 less finals appearances (which are team accomplishments btw).
As mentioned, Hakeem's peak really isn't > Duncan, they are more equal than people acknowledge. Same as Shaq. People are obsessed over raw numbers, but like I said, 1 pound <> 1 US Dolalr <> 1 Cambodian Riel <> 1 Japanese Yen.

Stats ... Yawn.
I hate awards but I never saw MJ denied a 1st team all NBA when he deserved it, can't say the same for that bull MVP award.
Adjusted pace? Yawn . Hakeem. Was better at his peak and it culminated with a repeat. He also outplayed David, Ewing and a young Shaq in route. I take prime dream over Tim. My eyes a repeat over the best bigs is enough for me.
Media bias did not help Larry Legend?! Gtfo. And yes Bird did say Kobe was greater but to lazy to look. You believe me great, if not. Oh well.
I agree Kobe would have ty shot selection see my posts above.
If you watched both play and can't see that Kobe had greater range don't know what to tell you. He does have the record for 3s in a game. MJ gets hot in a Finals he shrugs his shoulder cuz that was not his game....but whatever.

[ambchang]

O

Stats ... Yawn.

I apologize for putting in stats, because stats show how overrated Kobe really is.

I hate awards but I never saw MJ denied a 1st team all NBA when he deserved it, can't say the same for that bull MVP award.

Why specific to MJ? I saw plenty of times Kobe won 1st team all NBA when he didn't deserve it.

Adjusted pace? Yawn . Hakeem. Was better at his peak and it culminated with a repeat. He also outplayed David, Ewing and a young Shaq in route. I take prime dream over Tim. My eyes a repeat over the best bigs is enough for me.

Good for you. Duncan went through Shaq.

Media bias did not help Larry Legend?! Gtfo. And yes Bird did say Kobe was greater but to lazy to look. You believe me great, if not. Oh well.

Not that I don't, just that I haven't read/heard of it. Otoh, Bird has repeatedly underrated himself in front of the media despite being a y bas . Great PR move IMHO.

I agree Kobe would have ty shot selection see my posts above.
If you watched both play and can't see that Kobe had greater range don't know what to tell you. He does have the record for 3s in a game. MJ gets hot in a Finals he shrugs his shoulder cuz that was not his game....but whatever.

Jordan had record 3s, got hot in a game. Kobe had record 3s ONCE, he has always been that good. Gotcha.

[Killakobe81]

WTF is this bull ? Now that you finally acknowledge Kobe was a beta, you are saying that his beta status was better than Pippen's beta status?

Give me a break KK, just stop, please. You are making rules out of your ass now.

Never said anything about beta ...if you think pip is in the same class as the rest you lose any credibility and i claim victory in any and all future debates as well as our past ones. Kobe won without Shaq ...still waiting for pip to lead ants to picnic.

[Killakobe81]

amb juking stats like he works for the Baltimore PD or the principal of Dookie, Michael, and namond's middle school.

[ambchang]

Never said anything about beta ...if you think pip is in the same class as the rest you lose any credibility and i claim victory in any and all future debates as well as our past ones. Kobe won without Shaq ...still waiting for pip to lead ants to picnic.

Whether one player won without another is not the point. Kobe had the fortune of playing with MVPau, Bynum and Odom frontline when the league was pathetic in terms of front court talent. While each individual player in and of themselves is not of any legendary status, the combination of the three of them, or even two of them, posses a huge matchup issue with any other teams. The matchup is about as advantageous as a Shaq or Jordan vs. their respective compe ion.

And no, Kobe is not in a specific class above Pip if you can group him with alphas like Duncan, Magic, Bird and Jordan. He is clearly a rung below.

You said Kobe won as the 2nd best player on the team = 2nd banana = beta. There is no distinction.

[ambchang]

amb juking stats like he works for the Baltimore PD or the principal of Dookie, Michael, and namond's middle school.

KK juking rhetorical like he works for the ministry of truth in Iraq.

[Phillip]

Ok, im convinced you're either really stupid or just a good ol fanboi.

I already taught you history and I remember you not having any rebuttal but here we go again, ill dish it once more since you seem to have little understanding about the series when you're probably 3 yrs old at the time

You CANNOT, EVER, EVER compare kerr and paxson's shots against ray allen's game 6 hailmary. EVER.


the bulls were up 3-1 at one point against phoenix in 93, and 3-2 against the jazz. the bulls were never in danger of losing the series, they also have HCA which practically guarantees them a win even if they lost games 6 hypothetically, but that's beside the point. lebran stans always like to play this role playing game when it comes to LeBron using arguments like "if kerr and pxson missed the shots, you never know" I mean really, if you have to resort to that "what if" argument, then you already lost.


have you seen Jordan's NBA finals stats from games 1-5 in both series? yeah its quite good.

now, have you seen LeBron's stats in 2013 frm games 1-5? yeah, he shot under 40% not once, but twice laughable.

point is, allen's impact with that hailmary shot is undeniably bigger and larger than both of kerr and paxson's simply because the Spurs already have that game 6 wrapped up after Lebron missed a 3 pts with 10 seconds to go. Allen gave LeBron a second chance to recollect his ty nba finals self by making that unbelievable shot. You can't say the same for Kerr and Paxson's

Kerr's shot was made with the game tied at 86, missing it would only mean the bulls will take care of business in OT. again, two very different scenarios.
ill help you out with visual aids since you're too unstable to realize it.

You are not getting the point. You can say all the what ifs you want. Facts are facts. Lebron won his championships, was MVPs of the series, and pretty much dominated when the team needed him most.

Oh, and MJ shot below 40% twice in a single Finals series before as well. Maybe you should take a look at his series against the Knicks back in 92, where he had 4 games below 40%, including one game where he shot 16%. Everyone has off days. Some teams simply are bad matchups or make specific defensive adjustments for your personal abilities. The greats find ways to battle through the bad matchups and still make plays, which MJ did in his various playoff series where he didn't shoot well, and Lebron did against the Spurs this past year.

[Killakobe81]

Whether one player won without another is not the point. Kobe had the fortune of playing with MVPau, Bynum and Odom frontline when the league was pathetic in terms of front court talent. While each individual player in and of themselves is not of any legendary status, the combination of the three of them, or even two of them, posses a huge matchup issue with any other teams. The matchup is about as advantageous as a Shaq or Jordan vs. their respective compe ion.

And no, Kobe is not in a specific class above Pip if you can group him with alphas like Duncan, Magic, Bird and Jordan. He is clearly a rung below.

You said Kobe won as the 2nd best player on the team = 2nd banana = beta. There is no distinction.

nope . I did not say that. I said I do not qualify rings for hof caliber players otherwise Kareem doesnt have 6 or Magic 5 ... Kobe is not in Goat convo IMHO but he still greater career wise than Bird, Duncan and LeBron Duncan is close same as Bird but LeBron may pass all 3

[RsxPiimp]

For the mathematically challenged, 33% > 6/24, or 25%. Unless, of course, 25% is actually > 33% because Kobe shot more

youre too stupid to realize that lebron comparison is with jordan

[RsxPiimp]

Some guy shot 100 shots and made 30 of them, he shot 30%. Some guy shot 1000 shots and made 300 of the, he shot 30%.

If you know your math, you can tell that 30% = 30%. There is no difference.

you do understand that the guy taking 1000 shots is bound to miss a lot more shots than the guy taking 100? i don't even know why i argue with you, because you lack the basic concepts of logic, tbh.

[ambchang]

nope . I did not say that. I said I do not qualify rings for hof caliber players otherwise Kareem doesnt have 6 or Magic 5 ... Kobe is not in Goat convo IMHO but he still greater career wise than Bird, Duncan and LeBron Duncan is close same as Bird but LeBron may pass all 3

So Kobe has the best career despite being the worst of the bunch because he coattailed?

[ambchang]

youre too stupid to realize that lebron comparison is with jordan

You are too stupid to realize that we have been talking Kobe, Lebron and Jordan (in ascending order of greatness) for a long time on this thread

[RsxPiimp]

You are not getting the point. You can say all the what ifs you want. Facts are facts. Lebron won his championships, was MVPs of the series, and pretty much dominated when the team needed him most..

hey clown, that what if comment started from you.

Oh, and MJ shot below 40% twice in a single Finals series before as well. Maybe you should take a look at his series against the Knicks back in 92, where he had 4 games below 40%, including one game where he shot 16%. Everyone has off days. Some teams simply are bad matchups or make specific defensive adjustments for your personal abilities. The greats find ways to battle through the bad matchups and still make plays, which MJ did in his various playoff series where he didn't shoot well, and Lebron did against the Spurs this past year.

i don't care if jordan shot 10 % in 92 against the knicks. you brought up 93, 97 finals and compared kerr and paxson's GW against Allen's legacy saving three point bomb against the Spurs in 2013.

stick with the script.

btw ambchang, please use phillip's logic for any of your future posting career.

[RsxPiimp]

You are too stupid to realize that we have been talking Kobe, Lebron and Jordan (in ascending order of greatness) for a long time on this thread

no, the comparison was jordan and lebron's finals until you conveniently added another player, keep track of things, your stupidity just never cease to stop

for someone who keeps claiming kobe belongs in pippen talks, you seem to always put him in this conversation. make up your mind and paint your face pink, clown.

[ambchang]

you do understand that the guy taking 1000 shots is bound to miss a lot more shots than the guy taking 100? i don't even know why i argue with you, because you lack the basic concepts of logic, tbh.

You also realize the guy taking 1000 shots will make a lot more than the guy taking 100 shots, right?


I agree that it is difficult to argue when your basic premise is 30% > 30%.

It would be even more difficult I argue that your basis for argument is logic.

[Phillip]

hey clown, that what if comment started from you.



i don't care if jordan shot 10 % in 92 against the knicks. you brought up 93, 97 finals and compared kerr and paxson's GW against Allen's legacy saving three point bomb against the Spurs in 2013.

stick with the script.

btw ambchang, please use phillip's logic for any of your future posting career.

The script? You moron. You and other morons are the ones who keeps bringing up RayRay's 3, bascially saying "if Allen didn't hit that 3, blah blah blah"

Point is, he hit it. The Heat won. Just like Paxson and Kerr hit huge shots. Plenty of idiots and MJ haters say "if Paxson and Kerr didnt hit those shots, maybe MJ has less les". Doesn't matter. They hit them. The Bulls won.

[Arcadian]

MJ is without question a more skilled one on one player than Lebron, although I think its pretty much impossible to stop him from driving once he gets a head of steam if you have to guard him with no help. It's hard to say who would win that, because even though MJ has more skills and Lebron would be a one trick pony, its an unstoppable trick, much like Shaq. He didn't have a ton of moves, but once he backed you deep in the paint, put his body on you and spun, there was no stopping him in any one on one situation. Lebron is the same with his drive. I don't know if MJ could handle his big body, power, and finishing ability.

But truth is, Lebron's one on one ability isnt what makes him great. Its his all around ability. He may not be the very best in any one aspect of the game, but he is still elite in virtually every aspect of the game.

Good points.

So we could draw a parallel comparison between Shaq/Duncan as with Lebron/Jordan.

Shaq and Lebron have their unstoppable go-to move, while Duncan and MJ were more skilled overall.

[ambchang]

hey clown, that what if comment started from you.



i don't care if jordan shot 10 % in 92 against the knicks. you brought up 93, 97 finals and compared kerr and paxson's GW against Allen's legacy saving three point bomb against the Spurs in 2013.

stick with the script.

btw ambchang, please use phillip's logic for any of your future posting career.

Does his logic include 30% < 30%? I'd be shocked to find a person this stupid .... I mean another person.

[Phillip]

Good points.

So we could draw a parallel comparison between Shaq/Duncan as with Lebron/Jordan.

Shaq and Lebron have their unstoppable go-to move, while Duncan and MJ were more skilled overall.

Yeah, you could say that. I've said for years that Lebron is bascially the "Shaq of point guards". He may not have a ton of moves, but the moves he does have are nearly unstoppable unless you completely sell out your team defense. And now that Lebron actually has some decent help, he is winning championships, even though he still has a team that is poorly built to maximize his talents.

[RsxPiimp]

You also realize the guy taking 1000 shots will make a lot more than the guy taking 100 shots, right?


I agree that it is difficult to argue when your basic premise is 30% > 30%.

It would be even more difficult I argue that your basis for argument is logic.

Wow where did you go to school? This is so basic and you don't even have a firm understanding of how it works


Jordan's strength has never been 3 pt shooting, asking him to take a lot more during the period of his career will not magically increase the percentage, in fact it will most certainly drop a bit lower.

[Koolaid_Man]

Yeah, you could say that. I've said for years that Lebron is bascially the "Shaq of point guards". He may not have a ton of moves, but the moves he does have are nearly unstoppable unless you completely sell out your team defense. And now that Lebron actually has some decent help, he is winning championships, even though he still has a team that is poorly built to maximize his talents.

translation = even though I'm not getting any pussy I'm still having orgasms because I'm jerking off daily....

[StrengthAndHonor]

You also realize the guy taking 1000 shots will make a lot more than the guy taking 100 shots, right?.

I don't think it's a matter of 30%=30%.

Considering both players skills are equal, Player A shooting 100 shots will actually convert a better percentage versus Player B taking 1000 shots.


With + 900 shots taking into consideration, fatigue comes to play.

[ambchang]

Wow where did you go to school? This is so basic and you don't even have a firm understanding of how it works


Jordan's strength has never been 3 pt shooting, asking him to take a lot more during the period of his career will not magically increase the percentage, in fact it will most certainly drop a bit lower.

I went to a school that taught 30%=30%. I didn't go to a school that taught about the strengths of Jordan's game. Bye. Jordan's strength really has never been 3 pt shooting, but it just so happened that he is about as good as Kobe despite that.