Is there a Bible/ New Testament expert in the house?

[xmas1997]

They're still alive, still pressuring politicians and they are right when they say "Bible God hates sexuality"

Pardon me for a slight correction.
Bible God hates the act of sexuality, not the sexuals themselves.
Thus if a gay is truly seeking his God through his own conscience, who are we to judge?
I Am That I Am

[ismael-robert]

Xmas I can't believe you're a believer you sound just like an atheist. I'm not here just to argue...I'm hoping to lead people to the truth. Secondly, yes if we did use the Bible to run this country it would be problem free. The Puritans came here bringing Christianity. The freedom of religion they brought was not freedom from religion, aka atheism, they brought the freedom to choose what form of Christianity you wanted to practice: catholic, Baptist, puritan, etc....that's why they left to not have Catholicism forced upon them. I recently watched the movie Monumental and it shows how our original government was drafted upon the teachings of the Bible...why do you think we have the greatest country in the nation and all those atheistic and muslim countries suck? Look xmas as we move more towards "enlightenment" this country is falling farther apart. Moving closer towards world war III as God is taking His hand off us cause we're basically asking Him too....but ultimately I fear not because the Bible PREDICTED all this. In the end the world will be at its lowest and Christ will return to judge. People will be absolutely convinced there is no God because of all the suffering, but those few who stay loyal to the end will be saved.
xmas the Bible is the word of God. Don't you think the creator would know the best way for His creation to live? If so then we should be living by it. If there is a God do you people think He created you for your purpose or His? Takes some humility to realize you're just a vessel and tool for His purposes and glory. It is illogical not to believe in God because of the simple fact there's order in this earth and universe. Do you think all this could come about from randomness??? Disorder creates further disorder and NEVER leads to order! I bet you atheist believe there's good and evil in this earth. So if you believe there's good you have to have something to measure good by...that means you believe in morals...if you believe in morals then they had to have an origin...that means ultimately there was a moral law giver...if you have no moral law giver you have no morals and if we destroy the meaning and need for morals we're going to destoy this society and earth...it's just a matter of time.

[ismael-robert]

God established His laws and rules for our protection and so we could live life to the fullest. sexuality despite those people's beliefs is not God's best for them...there are scientific and psychological studies showing that they do not live happier, healthier lives. Their life expectancy is actually like 20 years less than the heterosexual. They're parenting skills have been shown to be worse than two heterosexual parents. There are a number of other health conditions and issues that arise out of their style of sex other than AIDS.
Secondly if you want to adopt it then you need to be prepared to adopt every form of "love". So lets not be hipocrytes here...you need to accept pedophile relationships, incest relationships, people with animal relationships, people with car/inanimant object relationships...and thus we have opened the door for the further degradation of society and the meaning of family. Let me tell you those people are already coming out raising their arguments for marriage! Smaller sins lead to bigger sins....Christians are trying to cut it off before it gets worse.

[ismael-robert]

Yall don't like Christianity get out and go live in an atheist nation or Islamic nation and you'll come crawling back. One of your great atheist heroes actually converted to theism after spending some time in Russia I believe...I can't put my finger on his name but maybe I'll look it up after I change oil on my car...he saw what a society absent of God looks like and it horrified him.

[xmas1997]

It was not my intention to offend anyone by expressing my beliefs, they are my beliefs, and I have no intention of pushing them on anyone. Save your insults for someone else, please.
I believe in God, I talk to Him often, not that He answers me back, but I do talk.
There is no simple answer to the questions you pose, so I won't insult your intelligence by giving you a patent answer.
I will say that my beliefs are a tad bit out of the ordinary and some are contrary to the party line of mainstream religions because of experience, and very subjective experiences at that, plus following my conscience.
I won't bore you with my qualifications or extensive studies of faiths and religions. That would just make you think I was another of the know-it-alls who post here, and thus counterproductive.
Allow me to pose a question to you.
Do you believe it is your God given duty to lead others to the truth, evangelize so to speak?
And if so, why?
If we all have God given consciences, don't you think God is powerful enough, intelligent enough, and pervasive enough to do this to each and every one of us in His own way, knowing full well the best most comprehensive way to get through to us?
I Am That I Am

[Blake]

Secondly, yes if we did use the Bible to run this country it would be problem free.

lol leviticus

awesome opinion, tbh

[Blake]

Yall don't like Christianity get out and go live in an atheist nation or Islamic nation and you'll come crawling back. One of your great atheist heroes actually converted to theism after spending some time in Russia I believe...I can't put my finger on his name but maybe I'll look it up after I change oil on my car...he saw what a society absent of God looks like and it horrified him.

what exactly is horrifying about an atheistic society?

[xmas1997]

I personally think all of you have awesome opinions on this subject.
It seems like you are arguing over semantics.
I guess my point is, when ever we get together to discuss God, should it not be in an atmosphere of love?
And not with all of the derision, contention, and desires to feel superior?
Just asking.
When you get right down to it it is one opinion against another, that is all it is.
Why get so pissed off that someone else has a different opinion?
Are we saying we can never learn a new facet about God, or that God even exists in the first place?
Or are we elevating ourselves over everyone including God, in the Holy name of God, by insisting we are right, that our opinion is the ONLY valid opinion?
Think about it.
But do so out of love if you do, then tolerance and forgiveness can take precedence, don't you think?

[xmas1997]

This "I am right, you are wrong" at ude is what is destroying this world, and pits religion against religion, in some cases the same religion against itself.
That, plus the "I want what you have" at ude will be our downfall, not whether we believe in God or not, or how we choose to believe in God if we do believe, and definitely not judging others beliefs as evil just because they differ from our beliefs.
Our consciences know the difference between good and evil, we are not idiots. We might be ignorant, but we are not idiots.
In our conscience we know how bad pedophilia is, or murder, or woman beating, or beating the elderly, or stealing.
It does not matter if you believe in God or not, that is a matter for your conscience.
No one has a right to dictate to others based on their beliefs. We have free wills. This country was founded on basic freedoms, not religious intolerance.
That is why humility, tolerance, and forgiveness are crucial.
And it should all evolve from love.

[Leetonidas]

Yall don't like Christianity get out and go live in an atheist nation or Islamic nation and you'll come crawling back. One of your great atheist heroes actually converted to theism after spending some time in Russia I believe...I can't put my finger on his name but maybe I'll look it up after I change oil on my car...he saw what a society absent of God looks like and it horrified him.

how about you shut the up you bible thumping re . I can live wherever the I want, this nation is supposed to be separated from church so your god crap can go itself. the founders sought freedom of persecution from their ideas here so you can suck a fat . if you want your gish religious crap shoved into everything possible take your ass to Saudi Arabia and become a muslim. you're all worshipping the same non-en y

also rofl at the last line. cus America is sooooo clean cut and awesome with its outright bigotry towards gays minorities, stupid ass christians attempting to re ify science classes, and idiots like you voting in the bible s that sanction our Airforce to drone strike innocent people around the globe and arm terrorists to support our interests. you're a ing sheep, just as the church intended.

[Leetonidas]

when they say freedom of religion they meant freedom to choose which version of christianity they liked

ing idiot

[Leetonidas]

God established His laws and rules for our protection and so we could live life to the fullest. sexuality despite those people's beliefs is not God's best for them...there are scientific and psychological studies showing that they do not live happier, healthier lives. Their life expectancy is actually like 20 years less than the heterosexual. They're parenting skills have been shown to be worse than two heterosexual parents. There are a number of other health conditions and issues that arise out of their style of sex other than AIDS.
Secondly if you want to adopt it then you need to be prepared to adopt every form of "love". So lets not be hipocrytes here...you need to accept pedophile relationships, incest relationships, people with animal relationships, people with car/inanimant object relationships...and thus we have opened the door for the further degradation of society and the meaning of family. Let me tell you those people are already coming out raising their arguments for marriage! Smaller sins lead to bigger sins....Christians are trying to cut it off before it gets worse.

Scientific studies also show that the universe wasn't created by a god, there is no supreme being in the clouds, and that atheists are smarter than stupid ass people like you. way to support the science that benefits your stupidity, hypocrite

[Leetonidas]

dp

[Blake]

When you get right down to it it is one opinion against another, that is all it is.
Why get so pissed off that someone else has a different opinion?

Depends on what is done with the opinion.

[xmas1997]

Regardless of the opinion, an antagonistic spirit will never resolve anything. It just breeds more antagonism.
I don't see the point in arguing about something based on faith.
Faith is an intangible quality and it is subjective in nature like thoughts or ideas.
That is why it seems the argument is really about who's opinion has more merit or validity.
But in the final analysis they are still only opinions which can't be proven except by faith, ones own personal faith.
And no one can fully know another persons faith, it is way too subjective.
You can generalize, but even generalizations have nuances that not everyone can agree with, so you are back to opinions again.
In a crazy way, it really is like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg?
You could argue for years about that and still not get to the bottom of it all.
If you see yourself as an enlightened (not to be confused with superior) individual, then you realize that it is one opinion versus another opinion, and on and on we go.
It is almost like a vicious circle with no end in sight.
And if approached from an at ude of love, then there should be no antagonism, rather a sharing of opinions.

[mouse]

The truth is
The fact is, none of you are experts!

I disagree..... what do you consider "an expert" ? a person with a piece of paper / certificate hanging on the sheetrock wall of the office of the assistant manager at the local Walmart?

I go by what I read in a topic and can always tell if the person is an expert on a subject.

[ismael-robert]

xmas my statements are never to offend you and you have not offended me. What I'm simply stating is you're a contradiction. Because a Christian is someone who holds the Word of God to be TRUTH not opinion. To rely on your emotions or conscience is to rely on something that's unreliable because we're flawed humans. We're emotionally unstable! There is plenty of evidence for Christianity that I do believe I base my faith on fact. I do not feel I'm superior at all. God issued the Great Commission and said spread my Gospel to the ends of the earth. Do I feel like it is a duty, no...I desire to do this out of love. Yes, God is powerful enough to reach whoever He wants to reach, but we are His hands and feet. We are His tools of choice. In the story of Moses splitting the Red Sea He could've split it Himself, but He told Moses raise your staff. He worked THROUGH Moses and He works through us. I look forward to that day when He says, "Well done my good and faithful servant". Did you read the story of the talents. Do you remember He casts out the servant into outer darkness who did not invest His talents? I'm not arguing, I'm not mad, I'm not being contentious I'm just putting out there what I know...it's up to everyone else if they want to accept it or not.
What's wrong with an atheistic society...just look at Leetonidas response...you want a bunch of people like that running around running things with all that anger and bitterness...I hope you're not a parent with that tongue.
The separation of church and state was to protect the church from the state-over taxation or the state influencing one religion like Catholicism which is what the Puritans ran from...but the church was never meant to blocked out from its influence on the state. What were the ideas/ideals the Puritans escaped for? Their ideals of being able to practice their Protestant faith freely cause they were receiving so much persecution. Wrong again on the muslim comparison. My God is a Trinity that includes the Father, Son, Holy Spirit...their false God is something named allah.
Let me ask you how one can be a bigot against sexuality...because here's another news flash sexuality isn't a race. And so far your precious science hasn't been able to show that sexuality is anything more than a choice. Why should someone get rights over a lifestyle choice? If I was a drunk and I prefer to drive while I'm drunk you going to support legalizing drunk driving so I can be free in the lifestyle choice I made?
Science has proven God doesn't exist??? Your best THEORY on creation is the big bang and that actually is pretty consistent with what the Bible teaches lol! You really think it's a TRUE Christians intention to have a politician do evil??? You really want to blame us for their actions? Please don't overgeneralize and put blame on God or Christians for people's INDIVIDUAL choices that go against what our God teaches. And Lee there have been well known atheist with knowledge beyond yours that converted so don't act like it's so impossible or even insulting. I would take none of the glory if anyone of you wanted to accept Christ as Lord and Savior and none of the credit. God and Christ love yall despite your insults and He sent His Son to die for your sins and you repay Him with insults...look at yourselves...truly....that takes a special kind of person...but we're evolving/progressing right???

[xmas1997]

I disagree..... what do you consider "an expert" ? a person with a piece of paper / certificate hanging on the sheetrock wall of the office of the assistant manager at the local Walmart?

I go by what I read in a topic and can always tell if the person is an expert on a subject.

Not necessarily, although a degree helps it doesn't automatically make someone an expert. And I won't go so far as to say I can always tell if a person is an expert on a subject because I've been wrong too many times to be that definite.
Rather, I base it on what you said you do, on the same things you do, what they write or say.
And of course these are merely our opinions which we make based upon their opinions, right?

I look at the text and in what context they post, as well as to how they react to criticism, and if their posts reflect any consistency.
Among other things such as intuition, my own experiences, etc., that is part of my criteria for my opinion as to whether someone is an expert or not especially in such a nebulous subject as this thread is. The study of theology takes most of ones life IMHO.
Thus IMHO no one, including myself, are experts here.

Even though I've spent much of my life studying this very subject, it still does not make me an expert in this field. It has never been my primary field, rather it has been one of my interesting hobbies, like physics, psychology, meta physics, and para physics, among others. As a musician I've explored many subjects on my way to inspirations, nothing more.

[DisAsTerBot]

wow. You can't be a bigot against sexuality because sexuality isn't a race. just wow. Please remove yourself from life.

[xmas1997]

xmas my statements are never to offend you and you have not offended me. What I'm simply stating is you're a contradiction. Because a Christian is someone who holds the Word of God to be TRUTH not opinion. To rely on your emotions or conscience is to rely on something that's unreliable because we're flawed humans. We're emotionally unstable! There is plenty of evidence for Christianity that I do believe I base my faith on fact. I do not feel I'm superior at all. God issued the Great Commission and said spread my Gospel to the ends of the earth. Do I feel like it is a duty, no...I desire to do this out of love. Yes, God is powerful enough to reach whoever He wants to reach, but we are His hands and feet. We are His tools of choice. In the story of Moses splitting the Red Sea He could've split it Himself, but He told Moses raise your staff. He worked THROUGH Moses and He works through us. I look forward to that day when He says, "Well done my good and faithful servant". Did you read the story of the talents. Do you remember He casts out the servant into outer darkness who did not invest His talents? I'm not arguing, I'm not mad, I'm not being contentious I'm just putting out there what I know...it's up to everyone else if they want to accept it or not.
What's wrong with an atheistic society...just look at Leetonidas response...you want a bunch of people like that running around running things with all that anger and bitterness...I hope you're not a parent with that tongue.
The separation of church and state was to protect the church from the state-over taxation or the state influencing one religion like Catholicism which is what the Puritans ran from...but the church was never meant to blocked out from its influence on the state. What were the ideas/ideals the Puritans escaped for? Their ideals of being able to practice their Protestant faith freely cause they were receiving so much persecution. Wrong again on the muslim comparison. My God is a Trinity that includes the Father, Son, Holy Spirit...their false God is something named allah.
Let me ask you how one can be a bigot against sexuality...because here's another news flash sexuality isn't a race. And so far your precious science hasn't been able to show that sexuality is anything more than a choice. Why should someone get rights over a lifestyle choice? If I was a drunk and I prefer to drive while I'm drunk you going to support legalizing drunk driving so I can be free in the lifestyle choice I made?
Science has proven God doesn't exist??? Your best THEORY on creation is the big bang and that actually is pretty consistent with what the Bible teaches lol! You really think it's a TRUE Christians intention to have a politician do evil??? You really want to blame us for their actions? Please don't overgeneralize and put blame on God or Christians for people's INDIVIDUAL choices that go against what our God teaches. And Lee there have been well known atheist with knowledge beyond yours that converted so don't act like it's so impossible or even insulting. I would take none of the glory if anyone of you wanted to accept Christ as Lord and Savior and none of the credit. God and Christ love yall despite your insults and He sent His Son to die for your sins and you repay Him with insults...look at yourselves...truly....that takes a special kind of person...but we're evolving/progressing right???

You make some great points, as does everyone here including lee, IMHO. However it was not my intention to criticize posters in particular, but rather to criticize the general at ude or aura that this discussion had gravitated to, namely contention and ridicule. That will solve nothing.
Getting into pissing contests beget more pissing until everyone is just swimming around in piss. Nothing revelatory will come of that except that maybe we finally decide it is time to for a change.

I do disagree with some of the things you have postulated as criteria for being Christian, or what makes one a Christian however, but honestly, they are minor in comparison to the overall theme of this thread.

Plus IMHO you may be too harsh with respect to sexuals. I too once thought it to be a choice but my precious science as you call it, has found genetic evidence for it to be much more than the simplistic notion that it is merely a choice.
So my Christian conscience tells me I should refrain from judgement, rather I should leave that to God and the individual.
Thus my statement that God does not hate or condemn the individual who is sexual who is seeking Him with love, but condemns the Act of sexuality itself. That is the sin.
In other words, it is not wrong to be or feel that he/she is sexual, whereas it is wrong to engage in the sexual activity. Do you see the difference?

The separation of church and state is another long subject, some which you have said I agree with and some I don't, but let's leave that for another time, this is getting too long as it is.

[Jesus]

at this thread

[xmas1997]

I seriously doubt that science will ever be able to prove or disprove the existence of God, at least not in my lifetime, or ever.
One thing that science has shown us is this: the more we know ....... the more we do not know, or that there is more to know.
In other words, the more we discover, we realize that there is a of a lot more that we still need to discover or uncover.
You may as well ask where does infinity end?
Science to me is just another tool to use, not an end all unto itself.
As for being a Christian?
There is a lot more to it than simply your statement of someone who holds the Word of God to be Truth not opinion.
IMHO, it is the action or their acts that determine if one is Christian, how closely one acts like Jesus Christ, and reflects the works the works of Christ as Christ did in their own workings and deeds, at udes and demeanors.
This tells me that I should not confine my studies to one great book alone. I seriously doubt that Christ did. I bet Jesus read extensively and was well versed in every faith at the time.
So IMHO to say that the Bible, or Dead Sea Scrolls, or other accounts of the life of Christ, are the SOLE and ONLY Word of God, is to be the epitome of naivety.
But then of course, these are my opinions, MY opinions. I do not push them on anyone. These things are for others within their personal consciences to wrestle with, emotionally or pragmatically or however.
I Am That I Am

[Blake]

lmao "your precious science"

Fwiw, literal translation says that the Israelites crossed the Reed Sea, which would make more sense.

[xmas1997]

lmao "your precious science"

Fwiw, literal translation says that the Israelites crossed the Reed Sea, which would make more sense.

How right you are.
Translating the Bible literally seems pretty naive IMHO. I was going to say ignorant, but I tempered my opinion.
I say this because if you look at the history of the Bible, or even other great theological books and texts like the Torah, Koran, etc. we find they have been translated into so many languages, doctored so many times, and put together indiscriminately depending upon the times, that it is a wonder if any reflect all the teachings that they are supposed to.
Thus to say the Bible is the one and only Word of God IMHO is to be extremely naive.
Who said it was?
I'll tell you who.
Some man somewhere in some time period who wanted to control us for whatever purpose he had in mind.
That is why IMHO the true and real final authority on anything is deep inside between you and your conscience!
I Am That I Am

[Blake]

If you're a Christian, you have to believe in a literal translation. Otherwise, what's the point?