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The OT is also law according to you and Jesus.
Which means that includes all the crazy Leviticus laws.
Xmas, stop feeding the troll. Flake is incapable of reading comprehension.
How right you are.
Translating the Bible literally seems pretty naive IMHO. I was going to say ignorant, but I tempered my opinion.
I say this because if you look at the history of the Bible, or even other great theological books and texts like the Torah, Koran, etc. we find they have been translated into so many languages, doctored so many times, and put together indiscriminately depending upon the times, that it is a wonder if any reflect all the teachings that they are supposed to.
Thus to say the Bible is the one and only Word of God IMHO is to be extremely naive.
Who said it was?
I'll tell you who.
Some man somewhere in some time period who wanted to control us for whatever purpose he had in mind.
That is why IMHO the true and real final authority on anything is deep inside between you and your conscience!
I Am That I Am
The natural (carnal) person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we (the spiritual people not the carnal) have the mind of Christ. - 1 Cor 2:14-16
Block him and move on.
The OT is parable, prophecy (Mat 11:13, Mat 26:54, Luke 16:16, etc.) and testimony (John 5:39, Isa 53:9, etc.) of Jesus. He explained why (Mark 14:49, Mat 13, etc.). He gives you a huge clue that God spoke in parables (John 5:19) The Epistles back it up (Heb 1:1, 1 Tim 1:4, 1:4, 2 Tim 4:4 and 7, 2 Peter 1:16, etc.).
There was no Exodus or Red Sea crossing. That story is a parable. A very deep parable about (modern) Christianity and the elect, who are in Christ.
Eccl 1:9 ...
Ignore the troll so he can argue with the voices in his head.
Last edited by Skull-1; 10-03-2013 at 01:19 PM.
The OT is also law according to you and Jesus.
Which means that includes all the crazy Leviticus laws.
lol "voices in his head" coming from the guy who prays to the man in the sky
Ehhhhhhhh. Wrong answer.
There is but one law and that's the Law of Christ.
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. - Gal 3:24
I could go on for pages but I am not getting sucked into this again. You are getting your ass kicked all over the board. Just admit defeat and slink away back to the rock you crawled out of. I have the sword and you simply cannot defeat me with scripture.
Who says He is in the sky? That's also stupid.lol "voices in his head" coming from the guy who prays to the man in the sky
so he's crazy because he disagrees with your religion? talk about stupid.
Jesus clearly said he did not want to abolish OT law.
You clearly, in big font, referred to OT law.
You can't back out of that now. It's right here in this thread for me to quote at will.
Where is he?
I thought I just went through a detailed explanation of all of that, or at least what I believe, since I call myself a Christian.
The point is it is ones' "Christ like actions that truly define one as a Christian, not words" IMHO, and especially not a belief in any particular book, or simply because someone says I must believe certain things.
Ismael, you make some awesome points.
Skull, you make some equally awesome points.
Blake, you do too, IMHO you should not take things so literally, if that is what you're doing. A literal translation will set you up for mistakes due to mans' inherent imperfections. If you are not doing that, then I stand corrected.
All of you make great points, but I have different views on some things that I have tried to share with all of you. I don't ask any of you to follow my path, just read and ponder where my path has taken me.
If it is similar, then great. If not, then that is ok too. I caution you not to allow your ego to get the better of you as it has me on occasion because things get muddled when that happens.
Skull and I have had huge arguments over this, but after I quit allowing my ego to get the better of me I realized that we were saying a lot of the same things. We still disagree on a number of issues though, but that is ok, hopefully we can at least agree to be able to disagree and still respect each others' opinion and experiences.
Just so you know, whenever I am penned down to choosing a particular faith to be called, like on applications, I usually say I am a cafeteria Catholic (I pick and choose what parts I accept and what parts I don't according to my experiences, studies, and conscience), but having studied many of the deeper mysteries of almost every faith and religion including Wiccan, Mayan, American Indian, and Druidic, I am probably closer to being metaphysical in my spirituality. I hope that does not offend the atheists, agnostics, or anyone else. It was not my intention to do that.
I Am That I Am
Last edited by xmas1997; 10-03-2013 at 03:48 PM.
So you don't really believe that Jesus died and rose again for you and your sins
How on earth did you derive that from anything I said?
That is part of my faith, I do believe that. But guess what? Here comes a bombs for you to bash me with: I also believe Jesus when He said "you will do theses things and Greater things than I". Thus I feel it is possible for any one of us to rise from the dead, if that is God's Will.
Ok, guys, bash away starting in 3.......2........1.......
Here's another zinger: I think God has a fantastic sense of humor. Debate that for a while!
So you're just picking the things out of the Bible you like and disregarding the rest.How on earth did you derive that from anything I said?
That is part of my faith, I do believe that. But guess what? Here comes a bombs for you to bash me with: I also believe Jesus when He said "you will do theses things and Greater things than I". Thus I feel it is possible for any one of us to rise from the dead, if that is God's Will.
Ok, guys, bash away starting in 3.......2........1.......
Here's another zinger: I think God has a fantastic sense of humor. Debate that for a while!
I don't see how you can call yourself a true Christian if you are going to downplay or disregard Jesus' words.
Who said I was downplaying or disregarding Jesus' words?
Not to my knowledge I am doing that.
What I said was that I am picking and choosing from the Christian Catholic faith what I believe.
I already know most of what is told in most of the Bibles. Did you notice I used Bible in the plural?
That is because there are so many of them these days, including the missing books from the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Anyway, please try not to quote me so literally. You need to also read between the lines of what I have written and what I intentionally left out.
Like I said when I first started replying in this thread, there is so much material that can be discussed that it would take us all years to discuss it all, even if we agreed on everything.
I tried to capsulize my beliefs for the benefit of making lots of points.
Please try to resist penning me down to a single issue.
We are dealing with opinions of what each of us believe and the whys and wherefores.
I never asked you to believe what I believe, nor will I. Your beliefs are shaped by the combinations I described earlier, and many are the same that shaped mine, some are not.
But all are valid.
All I asked was for you to read mine, take what you like, and disregard the rest, as your conscience dictates.
And ..................
What if God was one of us? Just a slob like one of us?at this thread
Then like I said, he has one of a sense of humor!
He came to FULFILL the law (Mat 5:17). Which law? There is the Law of Moses. The Law of the Prophets. The law of sin and death. The law of works. The law of faith. The Law of Christ. The Law of the Spirit. The Law of God. Etc. etc. etc. (Romans 3, Romans 8, ad infinitum) Don't be a stupid ass and try to act like an expert on things you cannot POSSIBLY understand. The paradigm shifted with John. Jesus tells you that also (Luke 16:16, Mat 11:13, etc.).
Finally, being "under the law" doesn't have the connotation you incorrectly assert--and since you can't even get parables correct it is impossible to teach you what that means. Being under the law does not absolve your accountability TO the Law of Christ. The law is for the unrighteous (1 Tim 1:9). But all are judged under the Law of Christ. This is very deep water here. You have no hope of understanding it.
MOSES IS A PARABLE that applies to this day. Most Christians are "under the law of Moses" and don't even know how or why... It is because they are not dead to sin and are thus held captive to the law. They can't see anything but Moses. They never actually see Christ. All these divorced and remarried pastors are not in Christ. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM NOR ANY OF THOSE IN THEIR CONGREGATIONS LIVING THAT SAME WAY. Thus the parable aspect of Moses comes true right before our eyes and nobody but the few even sees it. Fascinating stuff.
Also there is no "OLD" or "NEW" Testament. They are just the scriptures and they are categorized as The Law, The Prophets, The Gospels, and the Epistles.
I really don't want to get into this. You are an obvious troll. I am wasting my time here.
Last edited by Skull-1; 10-03-2013 at 08:30 PM.
John 1
Jesus is the word, etc.
Any command from God's mouth is a law.
And you need to make your mind up about the Old Testament. First it's just a parable, next it's a reference, now it doesn't exist.
You're a hack. You don't know .
I always find it amusing that hardcore atheists can quote the bible just as well as hardcore Christians.
It is like I always said, you can use it to prove or disprove practically anything, which only goes to show you cannot use it in that manner.
Question: "Did the Israelites in the book of Exodus cross the Red Sea or the Reed Sea?"
Answer: The Hebrew word translated “red” in some 23 Old Testament verses dealing with the Exodus is the Hebrew word suph whose root is thought to be of Egyptian origin and meant a reed, especially the papyrus. So, while it is true that the Hebrew words yam suph can be translated “Sea of Reeds” or “Reed Sea,” the question that must be asked is, which is the best translation of the words to correctly convey the meaning of the Hebrew passages? Also, we must take into consideration whether these passages, most commonly translated “Red Sea,” are in fact referring to what today is known as the Red Sea or are they, as some liberal scholars assert, really referring to a marshy area by the Rea Sea or possibly some smaller, shallower lake nearby? This is crucial because, if it was not the Red Sea, then the Israelites could have crossed without God’s miraculous intervention of parting the sea and stopping the heavier Egyptian chariots. This is really the crux of the debate: did God miraculously intervene, as the Bible says He did, or was the crossing by the Israelites simply a natural event?
When we look at the many different passages in the Scripture where the term yam suph or “Red Sea” is used, it becomes very clear that it is correctly translated as “Red Sea” and is indeed referring to the large body of water commonly called the Red Sea or Gulf of Suez. The only way that one could look at these verses and believe they are speaking of some shallow lake or marshy area is if one has a preconceived bias towards that translation, ignoring not only the historical evidence but, more importantly, the scriptural context. The Scriptures give us a clear understanding that the body of water the Israelites crossed was a large and deep body of water, and the only one in that area fitting that description is the Red Sea.
One evidence that “Red Sea” is the correct translation and the correct body of water is found in the Greek Septuagint from 200 B.C. This is the earliest translation of the Hebrew Bible known, and the words yam suph are consistently translated with the Greek words eruthros thalassa or “Red Sea” (see Acts 7:36; Hebrews 11:29). Therefore, the historical evidence is that these words in the Bible do refer to the actual Red Sea and not some lesser body of water. Further evidence comes from the context of the passages themselves. First, the sea had to be deep enough to drown the Egyptian army and destroy their chariots. Those liberal scholars who want to say this is referring to some shallow, marshy area have to throw out the context of the passages or believe that a whole Egyptian army can be drowned in a couple of feet of water. Also, in 1 Kings 9:26 we see King Solomon building a fleet of ships on the shore of the Rea Sea in the land of Edom—hardly practical if the body of water known as the Red Sea is merely a marshy area or small shallow lake. Clearly, the body of water yam suph refers to can be none other than the Red Sea.
The context of the passages and the way the words yam suph have been translated throughout history make it clear that the Israelites did indeed cross the Red Sea, a 1,350-mile-long body of water extending from the Indian Ocean. In some places, the Red Sea is more than 7,200 feet deep and more than 100 miles wide. While the Israelites would have crossed the Red Sea in what is now known as the Gulf of Suez, this is the large body of water God supernaturally parted, and He used it to destroy the Egyptian army and allow the Israelites to pass safely through, just as the Scriptures describe.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/red-reed...#ixzz2giR41pfc
The Exodus is a parable... It did not happen as a literal event. It happens within each generation....to each person who winds up in Christ....
Lmfao at the idiot who can't even understand what a parable is. Shut the f--k up, stupid.
The Spirit of Christ shows what is necessary pretty clearly. It is laid out in the Gospels and Epistles plain as day once you know where to look--which you do not. The clothes you wear don't offend God, but stealing another person's spouse certainly does.
Paul told us to reject the OT traditions in numerous places. You would reject it any way.
Jesus pronounced all foods clean. So that's gone.
Paul rejected the Sabbath as a particular day. That's gone.
On and on and on.
I occasionally use OT and NT for expediency. But that is not what they are.
I have demonstrated my mastery of the scriptures for all to see. It is pointless arguing with a troll. Truth to you doesn't matter so this is just entertainment in your twisted eyes.
You should just quit now. You will never beat me in this, not in a million years.
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