How much has your premium gone up or down?

[Th'Pusher]

So is a new mult-million dollar factory but one still has to pay for it.

You weren't whining about a new multi million dollar factory, you were whining about having to pay for health insurance premiums out of pocket, not subsidized by an employer. You're self employed, like other employers, you receive a tax deduction for providing health insurance to your employees which includes you. Do you want us to feel sorry for you?

[boutons_deux]

"subsidized by an employer"

health insurance contribution by the employer isn't subsidized by the employer. It's taxpayer-funded through the "tax expenditure" of an employer deducting his paying for employee health insurance as a business expense. So in fact, the employee health insurance is skimmed right off the top of salaries and tax-free to the for-profit health insurers.

The entire health care business in USA is a huge kludgeocracy, hyper complicated, hyper inefficient, cartelized racket to suck wealth out of the insured.

[Wild Cobra]

I am fully covered so $0 for me. Has your premium gone up or down and by how much?

Health care?

Mine is currently 212.79/month. I'm not going to take the time to find an old pay stub, but this is approximate double from 5 years ago.

[Wild Cobra]

"subsidized by an employer"

health insurance contribution by the employer isn't subsidized by the employer. It's taxpayer-funded through the "tax expenditure" of an employer deducting his paying for employee health insurance as a business expense. So in fact, the employee health insurance is skimmed right off the top of salaries and tax-free to the for-profit health insurers.

The entire health care business in USA is a huge kludgeocracy, hyper complicated, hyper inefficient, cartelized racket to suck wealth out of the insured.

They take it off their net taxable. Not their taxes due.

Why do you always lie?

[boutons_deux]

They take it off their net taxable. Not their taxes due.

Why do you always lie?

employers provided insurance cost is a business expense like rent and utilities, reducing their taxes

[Wild Cobra]

employers provided insurance cost is a business expense like rent and utilities, reducing their taxes

Yes, it reduces their taxes. This doesn't make it tax payer subsidized. You really are a moron, aren't you...

Corporations pay a 35% federal marginal rate. For every $1,000,000 they pay in health care, They are still out $650,000 in federal taxes, plus what ever state taxes are.

This is no more a subsidy than the tax deductions you would be able to deduct if you didn't live if your grandmothers basement.

[Wild Cobra]

Hey B- ...

Do you think I should pay taxes on the $212.79 monthly I pay for insurance? Are tax payers subsidizing me, because I get this deducted from my net taxable?

[boutons_deux]

Hey B- ...

Do you think I should pay taxes on the $212.79 monthly I pay for insurance? Are tax payers subsidizing me, because I get this deducted from my net taxable?

do you get to deduct your car or homeowner/renter/car insurance from you gross income as non-taxable?

[scott]

up 8.99% for the group plan I provide my employees

[FuzzyLumpkins]

up 8.99% for the group plan I provide my employees

That sucks. Same coverages?

[boutons_deux]

up 8.99% for the group plan I provide my employees

not too bad, not far off the annual avg for the last 20 years.

"average premium increases have ranged from 7 percent to more than 50 percent annually over the past decade. The Kaiser Family Foundation corroborated these statements in their own report after surveying over 3,100 groups of varying size, and states that ulative premium increases “have risen 131 percent while wages have increased just 38 percent” over a 10-year period from 1999 to 2009."

http://www.ehow.com/about_6679729_ty...#ixzz2hdf39Hll

[sickdsm]

Lollerskates @ having to explain the difference between tax credits and deductions to those giving advice.

Eventual you have to pay for all those deductions.

[Th'Pusher]

Lollerskates @ having to explain the difference between tax credits and deductions to those giving advice.

Eventual you have to pay for all those deductions.

I don't need anything explained. You don't like being an employer or the tax advantages it affords, then get another job. As a farmer, did you receive any direct payments from the federal government? What about crop insurance? There's nothing worse than a whiney "entrepreneur"...

[sickdsm]

I don't need anything explained. You don't like being an employer or the tax advantages it affords, then get another job. As a farmer, did you receive any direct payments from the federal government? What about crop insurance? There's nothing worse than a whiney "entrepreneur"...

It wasn't you that needed the explaining.

Subsidies are built into land cost. They get passed on to the landowner. As with any business tge more risk you take the more return is possible. Owning property and farming are not exclusive. You too can do it.

Another lolz at pretending tge average citizen isn't pulling in a buttload of uncle SAMs money. The only difference is yours isn't published.

[m>s]

up 8.99% for the group plan I provide my employees

props for actually covering your employees

[CosmicCowboy]

Mine was going up 17.8% if I renewed my current company plan and will go up an estimated 26% next year if I wait until after Jan 1 to renew and have to meet the ACA mandates. They are accomplishing their goals with the ACA. Good guy employers are being forced out of employer provided health care.

[CosmicCowboy]

And if anyone wonders why the difference, as an employer that provides insurance for employees I have the option of renewing my current plan before Jan 1. 2014 and then not having to meet the ACA guidelines until Jan 1, 2015.

[CosmicCowboy]

Scotts is probably 8.99% because he has a young group and I suspect (but don't know) that he is taking advantage of the ability to renew before Jan 1. 2014. After that he will get sucked into that black hole of young and old being treated the same way and paying the same rate under the ACA.

[angrydude]

[scott]

That sucks. Same coverages?

Yes, exact same plan. This is a pretty typical increase over the last 4 years. I wouldn't really categorize it as sucks, it's about what I expect every year.

It's a small group with zero turnover, so there is also the fact that everyone is a year older every year (our table only considers age and gender).

[scott]

Scotts is probably 8.99% because he has a young group and I suspect (but don't know) that he is taking advantage of the ability to renew before Jan 1. 2014. After that he will get sucked into that black hole of young and old being treated the same way and paying the same rate under the ACA.

This is true. It's for a December renewal.

[scott]

Scotts is probably 8.99% because he has a young group and I suspect (but don't know) that he is taking advantage of the ability to renew before Jan 1. 2014. After that he will get sucked into that black hole of young and old being treated the same way and paying the same rate under the ACA.

And yeah, it's a pretty young group. My one employee over 50 years of age is actually about 25% of the total premium. And we have another employee over 40 and a few women. I could reduce my rates by just firing all of those employees! (Note, this is a joke... wouldn't actually do that).

[scott]

props for actually covering your employees

Healthy employees make happy employees make better employees.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is a limit to how much cost sharing can occur between age groups. It's stipulated in the new UW guidelines.

And while I am happy that you aren't seeing this as an outlier, I cannot help but feel any meaningful HC regulation would reduce the cost points considering how out of whack they are compared to the rest of the developed world.

[scott]

I'll also add that I have a pretty nice plan for my employees. Just got a list of about 15 alternative plans (from our same HR services company that manages this plan for us) with potential cost savings of anywhere from 2-28%. And our HR company is investigating PEO options for me that could save money without losing any benefits.

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/226492