It's Pretty Simple...If You Believe In Right From Wrong - You Believe In God

[xmas1997]

holy

Use Holy in a sentence
ho·ly

[hoh-lee] Show IPA adjective, ho·li·er, ho·li·est, noun, plural ho·lies.
adjective 1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground.

2. dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion: a holy man.

3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life.

4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love.

5. en led to worship or veneration as or as if sacred: a holy relic.

If the Bible is holy, how can it also have errors? Are you trying to use ordinary standards to support extraordinary claims?

If you discount any of the Bible, you've discounted the Bible.

I am sure it's which ever bible you're referring to.

Wouldn't that be God's will though?

Just because something is "holy" does not mean it cannot have errors.
First, who proclaimed it holy? A man or some men somewhere and at some time. They are not perfect.
There is nothing extraordinary about that, that is pretty much a given. I could easily say my tortillas are holy, and to me they may very well be that way, but that does not mean they are holy to anyone else! That is pretty much a subjective view and to be believed by each persons' discretion. We all have free wills.

Second, where is the rationale that just because you discount a part of something, that it follows that none of it cannot be truth? If you watch a movie based on real events, do you also think that everything in that movie is exactly according to the true events, exactly as it happened? No. Even biographies are somewhat fictionalized in order to maintain interest. This is a simple analogy, true, but it does illustrate my point.

Thirdly, the bible I am referring to may or may not exist in its present form today, in this day and age. It is what it is, comprised of what it is, and IMHO missing much information that was omitted and/or skewed to control certain factions that existed at the time in order to maintain a specific agenda. This would explain some of the differences between the various authors of each book in the bible. It doesn't explain any of the missing books that have since been discovered, but were not included, yet may be just as valid.

And fourthly, would any one presume to know exactly what Gods' Will is? I certainly wouldn't even if I thought I could. And even if I did it anyway, then it would be chock full of my own biases, my own agenda. That is human nature, and it would be folly at best.

[xmas1997]

It's not just an opinion. 100 years ago the bible was considered to be inerrant. Today people who claim to be theists admit the bible has errors. They've moved their god back to a more nebulous area to protect their faith in it.

That the bible contains errors and cannot be taken literally (because it makes extraordinary, ridiculous claims and claims that are counter to current moral codes) is not an opinion. It's not a value statement. You only label it as such so you can attack it as such, ergo you made a strawman.

Let's look at it:

God's word is infallible
If the bible is Gods word, then the Bible is infallible
The bible is God's word
The bible is infallible

What part of that is illogical? Which premise do you disagree with?

But then you said the bible is God's word.

Does God make mistakes? If not, how did God create a system where his word has been misrepresented for most of recorded civilization?

I said that Gods' word was in the bible. I did not say that ALL of Gods' word was in the bible. All I did was agree that His word was in there.
There is nothing straw man about having an opinion. You have yours, I have mine. I never made any value statements other than to say the IMHO God is infallible, man is imperfect, and so is the word of God infallible, some of which is in there and some as it is today is highly suspect to containing ALL of His word, and that much of it contains man's word. This is MY opinion, no straw man about it. You are en led to your opinion about it as well.
God gave man a free will. Since God is infallible, then He makes no mistakes. Whereas man being imperfect and fallible, and with a free will is bound to make mistakes, thus mistakes in putting together His bible. Easy to figure that one out, not rocket science there.

[Koolaid_Man]

What standard do you rely on to say "creation takes time"? Do you understand the concept of space/time? (stupid question). If so, you'd understand that time began to exist when space began to exist.

Where do you get this exclusive information about the beginning of the universe? Do you realize it's going to eventually reach heat death (entropy)? Is that God's perfect plan for the Earth (who's surface is mostly uninhabitable) or will the Earth be spared and given to the meek, as the Bible states?

Do you realize mankind existed 100K years or more prior to the earliest Christian writings? Did you know the Chinese were writing before that? Was God sitting around waiting for something for hundreds of thousands of years prior to saying "well, enough of that... let's flood this place and kill everything except these few people and let's do it in the middle east"?

I realize you're a really desperate troll of someone who posts here under another name, but I don't think either of your accounts knows about any of it.

are you Jesus....if not proof please?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

prove it...just as with everything...some things literal, some figurative, some parables just like in the new testament...some anecdotes some personifications....you're fighting a losing battle on this one

So let's just be clear here, Kool, cause there are certain things that if you take 'figuratively' it blows up the entire faith.

Do you believe that Mary was not impregnated by her betrothed but instead meiosis was started by an unseen intelligence acting in a nonsexual way?
Do you believe that Jesus heart and brain function stopped for more than 48 hours and then revived?

[DMC]

Just because something is "holy" does not mean it cannot have errors.

Holy errors?

First, who proclaimed it holy? A man or some men somewhere and at some time. They are not perfect.

Atheists have known this for quite some time. It's taken theists a long long time to come to grips with the fact that the entire god story is a man made thing, and because men lie and because men misinterpret things they see and hear (based on understanding and dogma of the era), and the lack of a convincing argument for the existence of a god, only the parts of the bible that can be backed up by historical records kept by other men can be validated. The rest is considered in the same light as you consider these erroneous parts.

There is nothing extraordinary about that, that is pretty much a given. I could easily say my tortillas are holy, and to me they may very well be that way, but that does not mean they are holy to anyone else! That is pretty much a subjective view and to be believed by each persons' discretion. We all have free wills.

You're taking an unconventional approach, but not a surprising one. You're distancing yourself from the claims of the church by having a hybrid belief system, one that allows you to reconcile your mystic belief with your understanding of science. Still, at some point you let go of the need for scientific method and just accept ridiculous claims on faith. Then again, theists do say their God is a personal God so I guess it stands to reason that each person can customize their beliefs to whatever makes them feel most comfortable. It doesn't jive with the historical approach of the Christian theologists or apologists however.

Second, where is the rationale that just because you discount a part of something, that it follows that none of it cannot be truth? If you watch a movie based on real events, do you also think that everything in that movie is exactly according to the true events, exactly as it happened? No. Even biographies are somewhat fictionalized in order to maintain interest. This is a simple analogy, true, but it does illustrate my point.

If the bible is no more than another book written by men, why should anyone trust it's content?

Thirdly, the bible I am referring to may or may not exist in its present form today, in this day and age. It is what it is, comprised of what it is, and IMHO missing much information that was omitted and/or skewed to control certain factions that existed at the time in order to maintain a specific agenda. This would explain some of the differences between the various authors of each book in the bible. It doesn't explain any of the missing books that have since been discovered, but were not included, yet may be just as valid.

Is this the same bible you used when you decided a god exists?

And fourthly, would any one presume to know exactly what Gods' Will is? I certainly wouldn't even if I thought I could. And even if I did it anyway, then it would be chock full of my own biases, my own agenda. That is human nature, and it would be folly at best.

How can things happen that are not God's will? If an omniscient God created the universe, then he knew what was going to happen and when because he designed it that way. Otherwise prophesy could not exist and it's rampant in the bible, and in fact theists point to prophesy all the time as evidence that the bible is the word of God.

If we play by your rules, that God exists, that God is all knowing, and that prophesy exists, then God's will must be done, it's destined.

We can debate free will vs determinism but you seem soft on the issue, like you don't want to commit to a position.

[DMC]

I said that Gods' word was in the bible. I did not say that ALL of Gods' word was in the bible. All I did was agree that His word was in there.
There is nothing straw man about having an opinion. You have yours, I have mine. I never made any value statements other than to say the IMHO God is infallible, man is imperfect, and so is the word of God infallible, some of which is in there and some as it is today is highly suspect to containing ALL of His word, and that much of it contains man's word. This is MY opinion, no straw man about it. You are en led to your opinion about it as well.
God gave man a free will. Since God is infallible, then He makes no mistakes. Whereas man being imperfect and fallible, and with a free will is bound to make mistakes, thus mistakes in putting together His bible. Easy to figure that one out, not rocket science there.

How do you know any of God's words are in the bible?

[silverblk mystix]

How do you know any of God's words are in the bible?

Who is and/or what is God?

Answer: No one knows -

What , in essence, is everyone arguing about?
Answer - Words and concepts (The word GOD & the concept of God)

Are Words and concepts = Reality?
Answer = Of course not - they are pointers, clues, descriptions

Since no one knows who and what God is - is one side SUPERIOR to the other?
Answer : Only stupid people would act and/or claim to be SUPERIOR when arguing about a complete unsolved and unsolvable mystery.

Did I just claim one side or the other was wrong and one was right?
Answer - No

Did I just SUGGEST - that only a stupid person would claim SUPERIORITY when arguing about something that is unknown?


Answer - YES


Is the above a self evident truth?

Answer: Obviously and evidently - YES.

[DMC]

Who is and/or what is God?

Answer: No one knows -

Same with the flying spaghetti monster

What , in essence, is everyone arguing about?
Answer - Words and concepts (The word GOD & the concept of God)

Not really. It's the existence of a god, any god.

Are Words and concepts = Reality?

If not, how did you read my post?

Answer = Of course not - they are pointers, clues, descriptions

Nonsensical gibberish

Since no one knows who and what God is - is one side SUPERIOR to the other?
Answer : Only stupid people would act and/or claim to be SUPERIOR when arguing about a complete unsolved and unsolvable mystery.

There's no mystery. You give credence to the claim of existence of a god by calling it a mystery. There's been no unexplained phenomena that would be required for a mystery to exist. "How did it happen" is the mystery. "God did it" is the faux answer that is without evidence, reason or logic. The existence of the god isn't the mystery.

Did I just claim one side or the other was wrong and one was right?
Answer - No

Did I just SUGGEST - that only a stupid person would claim SUPERIORITY when arguing about something that is unknown?


Answer - YES


Is the above a self evident truth?

Answer: Obviously and evidently - YES.

You obviously don't have the mental capacity to field ontological debates, so stick to fingering assholes.

[silverblk mystix]

Same with the flying spaghetti monster

Not really. It's the existence of a god, any god.

If not, how did you read my post?

Nonsensical gibberish

There's no mystery. You give credence to the claim of existence of a god by calling it a mystery. There's been no unexplained phenomena that would be required for a mystery to exist. "How did it happen" is the mystery. "God did it" is the faux answer that is without evidence, reason or logic. The existence of the god isn't the mystery.


You obviously don't have the mental capacity to field ontological debates, so stick to fingering assholes.

Insults again.

You must not feel confident enough to debate me - so you resort to insults.

Pretty revealing.

[RD2191]

flying spaghetti monster? is that all you atheist got? its getting old, really. and your dumbass wants to talk about logic? a fish evolved into a monkey which in turn evolved into a human? that's logical?

[DMC]

Insults again.

You must not feel confident enough to debate me - so you resort to insults.

Pretty revealing.

You're not qualified to debate me, as made evident by your place in society as an asshole inspector.

[DMC]

flying spaghetti monster? is that all you atheist got? its getting old, really. and your dumbass wants to talk about logic? a fish evolved into a monkey which in turn evolved into a human? that's logical?

Mouse already played the "post ignorant, nonsensical response" long ago.

[silverblk mystix]

Mouse already played the "post ignorant, nonsensical response" long ago.

Let me know if and when you would like to discuss a topic and learn something -until then - reveal your idiocy at will.

[xmas1997]

Holy errors?

Atheists have known this for quite some time. It's taken theists a long long time to come to grips with the fact that the entire god story is a man made thing, and because men lie and because men misinterpret things they see and hear (based on understanding and dogma of the era), and the lack of a convincing argument for the existence of a god, only the parts of the bible that can be backed up by historical records kept by other men can be validated. The rest is considered in the same light as you consider these erroneous parts.

You're taking an unconventional approach, but not a surprising one. You're distancing yourself from the claims of the church by having a hybrid belief system, one that allows you to reconcile your mystic belief with your understanding of science. Still, at some point you let go of the need for scientific method and just accept ridiculous claims on faith. Then again, theists do say their God is a personal God so I guess it stands to reason that each person can customize their beliefs to whatever makes them feel most comfortable. It doesn't jive with the historical approach of the Christian theologists or apologists however.

If the bible is no more than another book written by men, why should anyone trust it's content?

Is this the same bible you used when you decided a god exists?


How can things happen that are not God's will? If an omniscient God created the universe, then he knew what was going to happen and when because he designed it that way. Otherwise prophesy could not exist and it's rampant in the bible, and in fact theists point to prophesy all the time as evidence that the bible is the word of God.

If we play by your rules, that God exists, that God is all knowing, and that prophesy exists, then God's will must be done, it's destined.

We can debate free will vs determinism but you seem soft on the issue, like you don't want to commit to a position.

How do you know any of God's words are in the bible?

First, allow me to say that I do not claim to be a theologian. And again I do not ask you to believe as I do.
Having stated that, yes, you are correct in that my beliefs are unorthodox. , maybe I am in the new vanguard of Nuevo Christian or something equally unsure. I believe what I believe, and respect the beliefs of others without the age old condemnations of those who believe differently.
The truth is, belief in God can only truly be known subjectively in each one of us. That could be unconventional as well.

To answer your questions as best I can, yes, holy errors, batman. I don't see how that is not a possibility, and most probably a very good probability.

Next, IMHO, no one should trust it's content, especially in light of it's history. What should be done is examine it critically using the tools we have at hand and arrive at your own conclusion based on that, as well as other tools, meditation, intensive study, scientific methodology, and your conscience. That should suffice.
By that time, you are better able a make an educated guess, than just dismissing something outright without at the very least going on someone else's word for it.

What I used was not just the Catholic, but also the King James Version, as well as what I've learned from some of the most recent discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. And I did not stop there. I used the Torah, the Kabala, texts from the Tanakh, the Koran, the Vedas and Bhagvad Gita, as well as teachings from Buddha, Celtic Druids, Wiccan, agnosticism, and anything I could find from early American Indians, and Australian Aborigines, etc., basically whatever I could get my hands on, and modern metaphysical writings.

I've already explained how and why things happen that are not Gods' Will. Remember free will? Remember being in His image and thus Creating our own realities, however imperfectly? IMHO He, by the very act of giving us free will, allows us to do this.
And what's more, free will cancels out Destiny. Does this stance, I your opinion, mean I am soft on the issue? I don't think so.
I believe Gods' words are contained in the bible because of all the methods I have used, scientific method, cross tabulation with other books, meditation, experiences in life, and my own conscience have shown me they are.
I cannot give you better answer than that because IMHO it isn't possible due to the subjective, rather than objective, nature of it. You seem to want concrete proof, and no one on this planet can give you that, except yourself.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Insults again.

You must not feel confident enough to debate me - so you resort to insults.

Pretty revealing.

He certainly makes fun of you. That does not mean that is all he does. I for one recognize his pointing out absurdities and making valid comparisons.

I don't even like DMC so it's not as if I am supporting him based on bias either.

To me, it looks like you cannot answer what his real points are and instead whine.

[silverblk mystix]

He certainly makes fun of you. That does not mean that is all he does. I for one recognize his pointing out absurdities and making valid comparisons.

I don't even like DMC so it's not as if I am supporting him based on bias either.

To me, it looks like you cannot answer what his real points are and instead whine.

You are free to have that opinion however wrong it is.

I don't feel the need to continue to answer and debate once the insults begin. Why would I waste my time?

I can - as I have done in the past - just return insults with more insults - but I find this topic worthwhile - so I would rather ignore him than debate him since insults are all he offers. In hiding of course.

Other topics - sure - we'll play the kids in hiding game. This topic - I will discuss, debate, learn, share with those that wish to- respectfully.

Otherwise - not worth it.

Additionally I gave him irrefutable truth and this probably makes him resort to insults because he cannot refute the self evident truth I gave him.

lol

[DMC]

First, allow me to say that I do not claim to be a theologian. And again I do not ask you to believe as I do.
Having stated that, yes, you are correct in that my beliefs are unorthodox. , maybe I am in the new vanguard of Nuevo Christian or something equally unsure. I believe what I believe, and respect the beliefs of others without the age old condemnations of those who believe differently.
The truth is, belief in God can only truly be known subjectively in each one of us. That could be unconventional as well.

To answer your questions as best I can, yes, holy errors, batman. I don't see how that is not a possibility, and most probably a very good probability.

Next, IMHO, no one should trust it's content, especially in light of it's history. What should be done is examine it critically using the tools we have at hand and arrive at your own conclusion based on that, as well as other tools, meditation, intensive study, scientific methodology, and your conscience. That should suffice.
By that time, you are better able a make an educated guess, than just dismissing something outright without at the very least going on someone else's word for it.

What I used was not just the Catholic, but also the King James Version, as well as what I've learned from some of the most recent discoveries such as the Dead Sea Scrolls. And I did not stop there. I used the Torah, the Kabala, texts from the Tanakh, the Koran, the Vedas and Bhagvad Gita, as well as teachings from Buddha, Celtic Druids, Wiccan, agnosticism, and anything I could find from early American Indians, and Australian Aborigines, etc., basically whatever I could get my hands on, and modern metaphysical writings.

I've already explained how and why things happen that are not Gods' Will. Remember free will? Remember being in His image and thus Creating our own realities, however imperfectly? IMHO He, by the very act of giving us free will, allows us to do this.
And what's more, free will cancels out Destiny. Does this stance, I your opinion, mean I am soft on the issue? I don't think so.
I believe Gods' words are contained in the bible because of all the methods I have used, scientific method, cross tabulation with other books, meditation, experiences in life, and my own conscience have shown me they are.
I cannot give you better answer than that because IMHO it isn't possible due to the subjective, rather than objective, nature of it. You seem to want concrete proof, and no one on this planet can give you that, except yourself.

So you're saying we have free will and God demands that it be that way?

Why meditate on whether or not a god exists? What do you find in meditation that you cannot find in reason and scientific study? Do you give the same time and energy to other gods? If I were to suggest the existence of a previously unheard of god, would you meditate on it to see if it's real?

Reconcile free will vs prophesy.

[DMC]

Let me know if and when you would like to discuss a topic and learn something -until then - reveal your idiocy at will.

I made some points and asked some questions and you only make feeble attempts at a sophistic response. That's generally the approach of the ignorant. You don't know anything about it either way, but you feel you can somehow debate by nay saying and generalizing all things into a hodgepodge of .

[silverblk mystix]

I made some points and asked some questions and you only make feeble attempts at a sophistic response. That's generally the approach of the ignorant. You don't know anything about it either way, but you feel you can somehow debate by nay saying and generalizing all things into a hodgepodge of .

No, you included your usual insults in every post directed at me - as you have decided to do for months now - a mystery to me as to why - but this has pretty much gone on nonstop for months and months.

Once I see the insult - I decide not to dignify your insult with a thoughtful and honest response. You can insult me day and night - go ahead. The response you will receive will be in proportion to the insult you decide to include.

In essence - you don't really want to discuss/debate - you want to insult - and then you also want me to engage you in the topic when you have already used this infantile behavior.

Not gonna happen.

So, we both miss out on any real insights. I would venture a guess that you would never be open to gaining an insight - with anyone that you insult - and I would venture a guess that you are merely confirming the position that you have already concluded is the "superior" one.

[xmas1997]

So you're saying we have free will and God demands that it be that way?

Why meditate on whether or not a god exists? What do you find in meditation that you cannot find in reason and scientific study? Do you give the same time and energy to other gods? If I were to suggest the existence of a previously unheard of god, would you meditate on it to see if it's real?

Reconcile free will vs prophesy.

Hmm, you pose some interesting questions.

Ok, I never said "god demands that it be that way", rather you did. I did say God gave mankind, each one of us the gift of free will. This is a very heavy gift in a deeper sense when you examine it from a spiritual point of reference. It is basically IMHO a bequeathing of His power to create reality. Unfortunately mans creations go along with mans flaws, thus they are imperfect creations, such as war, hatred, ridicule, disease, perversions, greed, egocentric superiority, even all the way to itself.
Christ gave us the means to combat this imperfect creating by using forgiveness, thus forgiveness is to be used both defensively and offensively as we create reality. The imperfections still permeate what we create in our realities, but their manifestations are muted to great extent.

I meditate because it allows me the time to rest, ponder about, and censor my creations (thoughts, words, deeds) BEFORE I release them out into the universe to be born into reality. That way I can create with less imperfection. Logic should tell you that I also use scientific study, theory, reason, and forgiveness as well as anything else at my disposal.

IMHO there are no other Gods. There may be other gods, but no other Gods. We are all one and God is witin and without all of us. If you study science you will see that this is true that we are all connected on an energy level. Just because you have a body where you are and I have one here, does not mean that these things of physical matter appear apart from each other by our eyes, means that it is necessarily true, when you reduce matter down to the level of energy, we are finding that we and everything is connected, and even the space between matter is composed of energy.
So knowing that, no, I would not meditate on the existence of a heather to unheard of deity since we already know that we are all One.

[DMC]

Hmm, you pose some interesting questions.

Ok, I never said "god demands that it be that way", rather you did. I did say God gave mankind, each one of us the gift of free will. This is a very heavy gift in a deeper sense when you examine it from a spiritual point of reference. It is basically IMHO a bequeathing of His power to create reality. Unfortunately mans creations go along with mans flaws, thus they are imperfect creations, such as war, hatred, ridicule, disease, perversions, greed, egocentric superiority, even all the way to itself.
Christ gave us the means to combat this imperfect creating by using forgiveness, thus forgiveness is to be used both defensively and offensively as we create reality. The imperfections still permeate what we create in our realities, but their manifestations are muted to great extent.

I meditate because it allows me the time to rest, ponder about, and censor my creations (thoughts, words, deeds) BEFORE I release them out into the universe to be born into reality. That way I can create with less imperfection. Logic should tell you that I also use scientific study, theory, reason, and forgiveness as well as anything else at my disposal.

IMHO there are no other Gods. There may be other gods, but no other Gods. We are all one and God is witin and without all of us. If you study science you will see that this is true that we are all connected on an energy level. Just because you have a body where you are and I have one here, does not mean that these things of physical matter appear apart from each other by our eyes, means that it is necessarily true, when you reduce matter down to the level of energy, we are finding that we and everything is connected, and even the space between matter is composed of energy.
So knowing that, no, I would not meditate on the existence of a heather to unheard of deity since we already know that we are all One.

Reconcile free will vs prophesy. How can they both exist?

[DMC]

No, you included your usual insults in every post directed at me - as you have decided to do for months now - a mystery to me as to why - but this has pretty much gone on nonstop for months and months.

Once I see the insult - I decide not to dignify your insult with a thoughtful and honest response. You can insult me day and night - go ahead. The response you will receive will be in proportion to the insult you decide to include.

In essence - you don't really want to discuss/debate - you want to insult - and then you also want me to engage you in the topic when you have already used this infantile behavior.

Not gonna happen.

So, we both miss out on any real insights. I would venture a guess that you would never be open to gaining an insight - with anyone that you insult - and I would venture a guess that you are merely confirming the position that you have already concluded is the "superior" one.

All this yet I never pulled your chain and you responded to my post just the same with your drivel.

Unless you can put forth a convincing argument for the existence of a god, you've nothing to offer I cannot find in better condition elsewhere.

[xmas1997]

I forgot to touch on prophecy and free will.
Free will can cancel out prophecy as well as it can create it, IMHO.
Look at the prophetic nature of the Mayan Calendar for example. Wasn't everything supposed to come to an end in December of 2012? Did it?
Not to my knowledge.
Or hey, maybe it did and all of this, and you, are just figments of my overworked imagination!
The huge power of free will combined with the even more huge power of forgiveness can literally work miracles of such the mind is incapable of even conceiving. I look at such theories as string theory, worm holes, and even greater unthought of things as this as possibilities.
In fact, I seriously doubt that anything is impossible anymore. One guy on here brought up replacing a missing limb or sight to a blind man. Yes, I believe there will come a day these things will happen, and what's more they will not even be considered miracles, because miracles are relative of the times.

[silverblk mystix]

All this yet I never pulled your chain and you responded to my post just the same with your drivel.

Unless you can put forth a convincing argument for the existence of a god, you've nothing to offer I cannot find in better condition elsewhere.

I responded to the topic and never insulted you. Are you saying I cannot post in this thread or use one of your quotes?

This was what I did. You responded with unprovoked insults. As usual.

Seek it elsewhere - I agree -

Drivel you you.

Truth to truthseekers.

[DMC]

Who is and/or what is God?

Answer: No one knows -

What , in essence, is everyone arguing about?
Answer - Words and concepts (The word GOD & the concept of God)

Are Words and concepts = Reality?
Answer = Of course not - they are pointers, clues, descriptions

Since no one knows who and what God is - is one side SUPERIOR to the other?
Answer : Only stupid people would act and/or claim to be SUPERIOR when arguing about a complete unsolved and unsolvable mystery.

Did I just claim one side or the other was wrong and one was right?
Answer - No

Did I just SUGGEST - that only a stupid person would claim SUPERIORITY when arguing about something that is unknown?


Answer - YES


Is the above a self evident truth?

Answer: Obviously and evidently - YES.

I responded to the topic and never insulted you. Are you saying I cannot post in this thread or use one of your quotes?

This was what I did. You responded with unprovoked insults. As usual.

Seek it elsewhere - I agree -

Drivel you you.

Truth to truthseekers.

You responded to a question that wasn't asked to you, and with gibberish at that.

You're a tool.