Obviously drawing attention and opening things up for teammates comes with being a great scorer (unless youre a selfish POS like Kome). And I really dont care if his rebounding goes up from 8-9 rpg in the regular season to 10 rpg in the playoffs--hes still nothing more than an average rebounder/defender/everything else.
spurfan is biasedObviously it streches beyond the Mavs fanbase, considering the majority of people in this thread are picking Dirk, and most of them have been spursfans...
They hate KG because Duncan hates KG. They love Dirk because hes classy and humble. Both of which are true and I agree with but that doesnt make Dirk>KG. Do a quick google search and overwhelming majority picks KG. You know this though because this horse has been beat to death already.
Never was in a situation like Minny? Are you serious? From 2007-2010 he got teams to the playoffs with 50+ wins in which his best sidekick was Jason Terry, starting lineups that consistently included Erick Dampier, Antoine Wright, and Trenton Hassell, and benches that heavily relied on playing Deaven George, James Singleton, and Malik Allen.
rofl, so you must be the only unbiased spurfan around. yeah, im sure that is the case
i did a google search
its pretty much going exactly as this thread is. when you read the threads, most people say KG was a better all around player (which he is), and had the better career stats (which he does), but that they would take dirk to build around and lead a team to a le (which is the truth).
You are a dumbass if you think KG's situation wasnt worse. Eugene Terry was better than any player KG ever had outside of 2004. Erica Dampier was better than any center KG ever had alongside him. Josh Howard was actually really good in the mid 2000s. Not to mention the fact Cubes was hands down a better owner and more willing spender.Never was in a situation like Minny? Are you serious? From 2007-2010 he got teams to the playoffs with 50+ wins in which his best sidekick was Jason Terry, starting lineups that consistently included Erick Dampier, Antoine Wright, and Trenton Hassell, and benches that heavily relied on playing Deaven George, James Singleton, and Malik Allen.
Either way did he do any better than KG did in Minny? You do realize KG had a couple of 50 win seasons with Minny right ?
Last edited by FkLA; 10-15-2013 at 11:34 AM.
links, quotes, etcrofl, so you must be the only unbiased spurfan around. yeah, im sure that is the case
i did a google search
its pretty much going exactly as this thread is. when you read the threads, most people say KG was a better all around player (which he is), and had the better career stats (which he does), but that they would take dirk to build around and lead a team to a le (which is the truth).
I posted links of polls in the past. KG won all of them, pretty easily too. And no Im not the only unbiased spurfan, there have been others that picked KG as well tbh.
Josh Howard wasn't very good during the run of years which I am talking about.
Terry is a solid guard, no doubt. But lets take a look at a run that KG had during some of his prime years in the early 2000s, in which he had 3 teams that made the playoffs with 50+ wins, but early playoff exits (similar to Dirks 3 year run in 07-10.
In 99, 01, and 02, the Wolves had 50 wins and made the playoffs each of those years, but had first round exits. The supporting cast?
Terrell Brandon 99/01 - A very solid guard who could score and rack up assists effectively, averaging around 15/8 in those seasons.
Chauncey Billups 01 - We all know how solid of a career Billups has had, and this season was when he began to gain steam for his career, with a solid season of 12/5.
Wally Sczerbiak 99/01/02 - One of the best shooters in the league during these years, and a very efficient scorer, including an all-star appearance.
Anthony Peeler 99/01/02 - Tenacious defender and a lethal spot up 3 point shooter, usually averaging around 9 ppg.
Joe Smith 99/01/02 - While a bust of a career, still a very solid bench big man, with per36 stats usually around 14/8.
Troy Hudson 02 - Solid scorer for a few years of his career, and this was one of them.
You act as if KG NEVER had any kind of talent around him, outside of 2004, and that Dirk ALWAYS had teams loaded with talent, when in fact, these teams were quite comparable (arguably superior) in talent to Dirk's supporting cast in 07-10.
Do you actually think naming those players helps your argument?
Outside of Brandon and Billups all of them had ty ass careers. Billups was nothing special in Minny, Eugene Terry>>Brandon. Compare the payrolls and depth if you can too though, so I can laugh some more. Either way...did Dirk do any better during that period than KG did in his time at Minny ?
KG is a better defender. Dirk has better offense. Both relied on outside shooting early in their career. Those old T'wolves teams where Garnett would "run" the offense like a Point Forward from the top of the key -- they lived and died by the jump shot, and when the playoffs came, they'd die by it. Dirk figured out the post-up game in 2006 & 2011, and took HIS team to the Finals. KG joined a Big 3 group whose talents fit each other, and had great success.
In the end, Dirk needs a Chandler/enforcer defensive center, and KG needed a scorer and a shooter. With hindsight, I guess I'd take Dirk over KG knowing that the defensive center might be easier to find than a scorer and a shooter.
Also with hindsight, 2003 Tim Duncan looks amazing. He was the offense and the defense. No wonder he's in a class of his own.
Everybody needs another scorer to be their #2. What KG really needed was a closer because of his lack of an unstoppable move in crunchtime. He had one with Cassell in 04' and Pierce with the Cs. Not sure why people make a big deal of it though...Manu closed for Duncan and noones ever discredits him for it. Swingmen are better closers thats all there really is to it. Dirk is unique since hes the best shooting 7 footer of all-time.
High payrolls = 100% guarantee of great players. Got it
Outside of Brandon and Billups all of them had ty ass careers. Billups was nothing special in Minny, Eugene Terry>>Brandon. Compare the payrolls and depth if you can too though, so I can laugh some more. Either way...did Dirk do any better during that period than KG did in his time at Minny ?
Not always but in this case they were certainly better than the KG had tbh.High payrolls = 100% guarantee of great players. Got it
Where are the links/quotes of all the people picking Dirk over KG btw ?
Duncan did his fair share of closing. And Manu wouldn't have been able to close as effectively as he did, if it wasn't for Duncan's presence. People are/were scared to death of Duncan's presence.
No one truly feared KG's offense at any point of his career. That would explain why 90% of his offense was wide open midrange jumpers. Once teams took that away (which basically everyone did so in crunch time), what did he have to offer on offense? Nothing other than junk points off of rebounds/hustle.
The same exact places where there are links/quotes of all the people picking KG over Dirk.
Whoa. You are a bigger dumbass than I initially gave you credit for if you think 90% of his offense was uncontested midrange jumpers. He wasnt as good at it as Dirk but alot of his points came from isos and he drew plenty of double teams.
Duncan was never a great closer...certainly not as good as Manu. His FT shooting had alot to do with it.
Google 'dirk or kg poll' and look click on the first three links.
There I directed you to three of them. Now your turn, direct me to all the people picking Dirk over KG.
Duncan wasn't a good closer? I'd say he wasn't great, but he was most definitely good.
http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm
Of the data between 03 and 08, Duncan was 0.391 (9 for 22) on game closing shots, with a FG% rank of #6 out of the players with the top 22 (8 players were tied for the top 15) made clutch FGs.
During the same stretch, Manu made 6 of 21 shots for 28.6% (not in top 22), Nowitzki made 12 of 37 for 32.4% (13 of the top 22), and Garnett was 9 of 33 for 27.3% (19 of the top 22. Only Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford, and Kobe Bryant were worse).
In the playoffs, Duncan and Ginobili were both 2 for 6 in the clutch stats.
Yes, these are the same types of people that still do polls and say Kobe > Lebron, if you do the same kind of google search. I'm sure we should put a lot of stock into these polls, and use them as factual grounds of who is superior.
All you Dirk Fans---Do you know who the Mav's gave up to get Dirk?
Who was it...
KG. He played on both sides of the court.
Dirk can kill you in so many ways it's not even funny.
Robert Traylor
Don Nelson worked out draft day deals with the Milwaukee Bucks and the Phoenix Suns: the Mavericks wanted Nowitzki and Suns reserve point guard Steve Nash; the Bucks desired muscular forward Robert Traylor, who was projected to be drafted before Nowitzki; and the Suns had set their sights on forward Pat Garrity, who was projected as a low first round pick. In the draft, the Mavericks drafted Traylor with their sixth pick, and the Bucks selected Nowitzki with their ninth and Garrity with their nineteenth pick. The Mavericks then traded Traylor to the Bucks for Nowitzki and Garrity, and they in return traded the latter to Phoenix for Nash.
Dirk was traded for Tractor Traylor......guess they got a good deal
I was probably 8 years old then
More than just game winning shots imo. Manu had the ball in his hands in crunchtime for a reason, he wasnt as lethal of a scorer as some other closers but he always made the right play. Duncans game winner against the Sonics in 05 was set up by Manu, the three against Phoenix set up by Manu, etc.
Duncan wasnt a choker or anything but his FT woes coupled with Manu being a badass kept the ball out of his hands in crunchtime.
facepalm.gifYes, these are the same types of people that still do polls and say Kobe > Lebron, if you do the same kind of google search. I'm sure we should put a lot of stock into these polls, and use them as factual grounds of who is superior.
Homers like you are the worst imo.
How can Duncan score without the ball in his hands? Duncan also had 3 assists, and shot 6 for 7 from the FT line with 1 TO in crunch time in the regular season (so much for FT woes), and 1 assist and 0 TO in the playoffs.
Ginobili had 3 assists, shot 4 for 7 from the FT line with 4 TO in the regular season, and 2 assists, shot 1 for 2 from the FT line and had 1 TO in the playoffs.
I am not saying Ginobili sucked in crunch time, I am saying that Duncan didn't. And yes, Duncan got the ball a LOT in the clutch, and so did Ginobili. There is no point putting down Duncan just to prove your point.
As for your examples, Duncan nailed the shots with a Manu assist. Manu is a guard, of course he will handle the ball, not only in crunch time, but also throughout the entire game. Do you want to see Duncan bring the ball up court and run pick and rolls?
I have no problems with people saying KG > Dirk, or Dirk > KG. To me, they are very very close in overall impact, but they are pretty much polar opposites as players. What I do find to be an issue is that it is definitive that one is better than the other, and there is no room for argument. Throughout their entire careers, they put up very similar numbers and impact to their respective teams.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote