Cory Joseph
Patty Mills
I wouldn't say CoJo is an elite point guard either.
I guess it depends on the situation. If the Spurs need offense, then you would go with Mills since CJ isn't so assertive on that end. But considering Belinelli is a subpar defender, it would be risky to play Mills alongside him if the Spurs need defense. CJ would make more sense in that situation.
I think a key component for either is playing time and Pop's short leash. If they keep getting yanked cause they made a mistake, they never get confidence in their abilities or a rhythm with the other players. Leave them out there to deal with their mistakes and their impact will grow with their confidence.
Pop should pick a point guard and stick to developing him.
I completely disagree with the bolded bit. At one point in the season, the Spurs were hailed by the media as having one of the deepest benches in the league (not talent wise, but in terms of how they played as a team).
Give up on Cojo. Honestly, what do people think his ceiling is? At best he will be a serviceable backup PG, but as it is now he plays slightly above average defense and does nothing on offense. Can't shoot, can't drive, can't facilitate. He just won't be a standout rotation player in this lifetime.
Mills isn't a PG, but YOU DON'T NEED ONE IF YOUR BENCH UNIT HAS BELLI AT SG AND MANU AT SF. What DOES make your offense better, with players like Manu & Marco coming off the bench, is OUTSIDE SHOOTING I.E. SPACING. If Patty can even attain an elementary grasp of the offense he should get open looks in bunches.
His skill set is just better for what we need out of our particular situation at backup PG.
De Colo is a SG, and not a very good one. In hindsight it made no sense for him to come overseas. Also you can tell Pop doesn't like him.
If Mills was 3 inches taller, he'd be a better Neal. Although, Mills can still play some point if Manu is on the floor in that "babysitting" role we've seen him play, where he runs the offense. I think the dream of Spurfan is for CoJo to actually take the job over, rather than just have it handed to him because nobody else could do it. He seems tentative, like he'd rather be off-ball, but he has the best ability of the group to be the backup pg
Unfortunately, I sort of agree with much of the post, although CoJo still should get this year to prove himself. Though I find it unlikely if he hasn't been able to do it in the preseason.
I wouldn't put much stock in what the media has to say. They usually have their own agenda. They had one of the deepest benches in terms of potential, but not always execution. With my own eyes, I saw the bench consistently blow 4th quarter leads down the stretch. There were plenty of examples throughout the regular season and post season when the second unit struggled offensively to put points on the board. There were even stretches of game that saw them shoot nothing but three's for the entire 3-4 minutes they were on the floor together. Most of those three's involved very little ball movement and spot up jump shots with a good 15 seconds left on the shot clock.
Btw, a second unit of Mills at point, Beli at SG and Manu at SF is something that shouldn't even be joked about. That would be one of the worst perimeter defensive alignments Pop could throw out there. The potential uptick in offensive production would be trumped by the damage done on the defensive end.
To be a solid rotation player you have to have at least one NBA skill, a calling card. Boris has passing, Belli and Manu facilitating, Mills outside shooting. But Cojo? It certainly isn't Tony Allen or Avery Bradley level defense. You could say he plays, what, ten percent better defense than Mills? The eye test shows him to be an adequate NBA defender, but that doesn't make it his calling card just because our other PG's suck at it. He just doesn't do anything at a level that will make a difference, other than not screwing up most of the time. Playing time isn't going to make him a knock-down shooter, and it isn't going to give him the instincts to be a great facilitator.
We know what Cojo is: good enough at everything to be in the NBA, not good enough at anything to play significant minutes in the NBA.
It sucks that our only other option is Mills, but I really feel like his skills fit better with our bench so long as he can stay in front of his man. Unless he plays Neal-level defense he is the better choice.
Manu is our backup SF at this point so unless there is a better scrap heap defender that's where he'll be (probably subbing in at SG until Kawhi comes out and Belli comes in).
Belli is what he is on defense, he's going to be on the court anyways so it doesn't matter for the purposes of your point.
So is Cojo really gonna be a difference maker on D? I am legitimately asking, can you show me some stats or replays that suggest he is anything more than an adequate defender? His DRtg of 104 isn't stellar, and it isn't leaps and bounds above Patty's 107. His reputation for defense seems to me to stem from the lack of any adequate defenders at backup PG these last few years (see: Neal, Gary).
Let's assume Mills is at least able to stay in front of his man and not make stupid obvious mistakes leading to open shots like Neal did so much. Is CoJo, maybe one or two notches above Mills at defense but with no contribution save not messing up on offense, really a better option?
I think if you cloned Ayres, Diaw, Manu, and Belli, and made our bench play against itself with Cojo opposing Mills at point, Mills' team would win at least 3/4 of the time.
Even if we assume Cojo is a good B+ defender, he's going to be shutting down whom exactly? The Norris Cole's and CJ Watson's of the league? Patrick Beverly?
I think the real point to be made here is that they aren't mutually exclusive, and that having fire/ice specialty players backing up the same position can be beneficial to flexibility with line ups.
On my 2K13 franchise my backup SG's are Corey Brewer and Anthony Morrow. It works perfectly because if I need stops and rebounds I can sub in Brewer, but if I need spacing and scoring I go for Morrow. As long as they are adequate in all facets but have opposing specialties, the same logic can apply. If we assume Mills gives us on offense what Cojo gives us on defense, and that they are both adequate in the opposite, then it just makes the roster more flexible.
100% agree. CoJo is just average at everything, but at least Patty can score in bunches, even if he is a marginally below average defender.
I think you bring Corey right off the bench for Tp, and if he looks un-aggressive and his shot isn't there, sub in Mills right away.
Mills
Manu, with Mills playing SG
Hey, you don't have to convince me the FO screwed up this off season. Instead of filling holes and shoring up glaring weaknesses, they used MLE money to sign a 4th big to replace a seldom used Dejuan Blair then, signed a lesser version of Gary Neal in Marco Belinelli. Meanwhile, the FO did nothing to address the needs at backup SF and PG.
Within the Spurs carousel rotation, I think it would be more advisable to put Diaw at SF even if that means giving Ginobili less court time during the regular season. It's probably safe to assume Manu will spend some time at SF when Pop plays his small ball lineup. Hopefully, Mills will be on the bench during that time.
I don't need to prove CoJo's better than Mills defensively. Mills is a margially less experienced version of Gary Neal with slightly better handles. Neither are suitable backups but both will be pressed into action because the only other option is De Crapo and he can't defend, facilitate or shoot.
You're telling me that Mill's team would win 3/4 of the games with the lineup you suggested, yet, Mills had plenty of chances during last year's regular season to take over the reigns of backup PG but couldn't. What makes you think this year will be any different? Are you seriously making future projections based on a couple of pre-season games?
I don't have a friggin clue how this will all shake out. One could only hope that Pop nails down a working rotation by mid March so players will have plenty of time to adapt to their roles before heading into the playoffs.
agree with most of this. if Pop doesn't like De Colo, it's probably from DeColo's whiny, en led at ude imo. That seems to piss Pop off the most. I don't blame him tbh.
I honestly can't tell who is the best fit, and that is troubling, since I was hoping a strong candidate would emerge or be acquired. At this point, I'm leaning towards Mills because he seems the hungriest for the job. Plus he can obviously score in bunches which is very underrated. He's obviously a team guy so I think his D will improve, I can't ever see it being as consistently lazy or ty as Neil's D.
I think SA can use both, depending on the opponents.
Mills is a better shooter and a good 3-pointer and if Manu or Beli are running the point most of the time, I think he might be a good option. On the other hand, if we need someone to defend bigger PGs and take some of the pressure of Manu/Beli, Cojo is probably a better choice.
does it really matter?
T.J. Ford
Neither.
Pop is going to pick Corey over mills 9 times out of 10. Pop values defense over offense.
I like them both but I think people are overvaluing CoJo's ability to run the offense. He is okay but I hardly see him as being light years ahead of Mills. Both of them need a lot of work on the pnr sets.
In order to win a Championship, you really need to have very good defense. That is my main problem with Mills. I'm still willing to give him another shot, but if his defense doesn't improve quite a lot, then I am not sure I would want to give him that spot. I like Cory's defense much better, but he needs to get a lot better on offense. It's really annoying how each one of the backup PGs have big deficiencies in their games that differ from one another.
Last edited by Ice009; 10-16-2013 at 10:48 PM.
De Colo played extended minutes at the backup pg tonight against the Hawks. Did he impress you? What part of his game impressed you the most?
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