do the irrational Manu haters seriously think Manu won't turn the corner this season?

[xmas1997]

Basically this is what it boils down to. Adjust expectations. He's clearly on the decline. He's going to have ups and downs.

Manu himself said injuries really got into his head last season. If he can stay healthy (big if), he'll be fine. And if he can't, he can't.

I agree.

[Johnny RIngo]

A stat to back that claim: At 35 years old, Manu had a 19.0 PER. Only 2 others SG in the NBA history had a 19+ PER at 35+ years old: Drexler and Jordan.

I'm sorry, but Manu doesn't belong in that club:

Jordan - 39 mpg, 82 games played, 3200 total minutes
Drexler - 35 mpg, 70 games played, 2500 total minutes

Ginobili - 23 mpg, 60 games played, 1400 total minutes

It's clear that Jordan and Drexler were still top tier shooting guards at age 35. Both were first option players on their respective teams. Manu was 4th option in the regular season and 5th option in the playoffs last year. Quite a steep drop from being the first option on the team two years ago. He's clearly declining - Pop keeps decreasing his minutes and he still can't handle the grind of an 82 game season. Unacceptable considering the ridiculous amount of money he was paid last year. I know you want to cheer up the depressed Manu fans, Bruno, but there's no need to exaggerate Manu's impact.

[spurs10]

1. Manu wasn't "so bad" in the playoffs. He is still a damn good player. What I'm saying is that the expectation for a 36 years old player is to get worst with each year passing. While, it's possible for Manu to have a Duncan's like rebound season, it really isn't the most likely scenario.

2. No, that's stupid.

3. No, that's stupid.

Both Manu's haters and homers are extremely excessive on that subject. There is clearly a huge gap between their opinions and I'm somewhere in that gap. Manu is still a very good player but he is clearly on the decline and nowhere near his prime level. It's just stating the obvious.


And despite what some think, Manu has aged well considering his position and his style to play. Players aging well in the NBA are pass first PG, bigmen and spot up shooters and he is none of that. Manu being able to play at his last season level while being 35 years old is quite remarkable.
A stat to back that claim: At 35 years old, Manu had a 19.0 PER. Only 2 others SG in the NBA history had a 19+ PER at 35+ years old: Drexler and Jordan.

Thanks for the succinct and logical response to xmas1997's questions. I can't imagine these opinions aren't those of most Spurs fans. As ElNono has stated, he will go as his injuries go. Thanks for that info that "only 2 other SG in the NBA history had a 19+ PER at 35+ years old: Drexler and Jordan." That speaks volumes. It is indeed "stupid" to think that Manu was solely responsible for our loss in game 6 and the Finals. Any one player makes one free-throw, hits one missed shot, blocks a shot, or gets one more rebound and it's a different story. One of those guys is Manu, but there are several other names.

[UZER]

I can accept and understand your opinion, user, because it is rational, hows thought and insight, and none of the obsessiveness of the haters.
I can see you are being objective about it as best you can, but you make the claim that "Manu cost us the le" and that part has been clearly shown to be a gross over statement by many on here already.
All that is asked is to read those posts so you can see what most of us see, namely that Manu was not the only one who made mistakes, they all did, and just as there were valid reasons that Green quit making 3s, and Tony quit making his shots, so were there valid reasons that Manu had his turnovers.
The objective fan who observes through the use of his unbiased basketball intelligence are capable of seeing this.

So im unintelligent because I say Manu cost the spurs game 6? Basketball is a 5 on 5 game, and Manu wasnt one the court by himself, yeah we get that.

But if we play your game, and pass blame around, the % of blame is still not equal. Manus % of blame a lot higher than everyone else. So to take "manu cost the le" and interpret it as people not understanding basketball is condescending. If fact, we do understand basketball and are stating that, all things taken into account, to the fullest extent that one player can he held responsible for a loss in a team game, in game 6 of the NBA finals, that player was Manu Ginobili.

I would hope that someone as intelligent as yourself would understand that.

[trypldubl]

The objective fan who observes through the use of his unbiased basketball intelligence are capable of seeing this.

Dude you are clearly not one of them

Tony hit 2 big shot at the end of regulation and green missing shots is better than a turnover which leads to transition buckets and also put the defense on its heals.

If Manu had turned it over once or twice then it would not have been a big deal. even 4 is not that bad. He turned it over 8 times and was a plus minus -21. As bad as Parker shot was he was still a +8. Yea Leonard missed a free throw and Manu did too but I would expect Manu to hit both because he has been in big games before. Leonard responded in overtime with some big buckets and Manu with the Spurs down by one on the last possession turns the ball over.

Dude I think Manu is a top 5 Spur of all time and was a great player but you can't turn the ball over as much as he did in that game and not think that was the reason for the loss.

[Skull-1]

I'm sorry, but Manu doesn't belong in that club:

Jordan - 39 mpg, 82 games played, 3200 total minutes
Drexler - 35 mpg, 70 games played, 2500 total minutes

Ginobili - 23 mpg, 60 games played, 1400 total minutes

It's clear that Jordan and Drexler were still top tier shooting guards at age 35. Both were first option players on their respective teams. Manu was 4th option in the regular season and 5th option in the playoffs last year. Quite a steep drop from being the first option on the team two years ago. He's clearly declining - Pop keeps decreasing his minutes and he still can't handle the grind of an 82 game season. Unacceptable considering the ridiculous amount of money he was paid last year. I know you want to cheer up the depressed Manu fans, Bruno, but there's no need to exaggerate Manu's impact.

RIngo with the Stat Truth Bomb. BOOM.

[Skull-1]

Dude you are clearly not one of them

Tony hit 2 big shot at the end of regulation and green missing shots is better than a turnover which leads to transition buckets and also put the defense on its heels.

If Manu had turned it over once or twice then it would not have been a big deal. even 4 is not that bad. He turned it over 8 times and was a plus minus -21. As bad as Parker shot was he was still a +8. Yea Leonard missed a free throw and Manu did too but I would expect Manu to hit both because he has been in big games before. Leonard responded in overtime with some big buckets and Manu with the Spurs down by one on the last possession turns the ball over.

Dude I think Manu is a top 5 Spur of all time and was a great player but you can't turn the ball over as much as he did in that game and not think that was the reason for the loss.

BINGO!

[xmas1997]

So im unintelligent because I say Manu cost the spurs game 6? Basketball is a 5 on 5 game, and Manu wasnt one the court by himself, yeah we get that.

But if we play your game, and pass blame around, the % of blame is still not equal. Manus % of blame a lot higher than everyone else. So to take "manu cost the le" and interpret it as people not understanding basketball is condescending. If fact, we do understand basketball and are stating that, all things taken into account, to the fullest extent that one player can he held responsible for a loss in a team game, in game 6 of the NBA finals, that player was Manu Ginobili.

I would hope that someone as intelligent as yourself would understand that.

No, you misunderstood me, I never said you were not intelligent. In fact just the opposite. I commended you on your rationality and only disagree with one point.
I don't know where you thought I was insulting your intelligence which I was not.
My best guess is that you were reacting to my last sentence, but I purposely worded it the way I did so that would not happen. I said "one" not "you" to differentiate between you and the haters.
Sorry, didn't mean you. I sincerely liked your opinion.

[ElNono]

Gino had one great game, one terrible game... so-so, tbh...

[Skull-1]

Gino had one great game, one terrible game... so-so, tbh...

[xmas1997]

So im unintelligent because I say Manu cost the spurs game 6? Basketball is a 5 on 5 game, and Manu wasnt one the court by himself, yeah we get that.

But if we play your game, and pass blame around, the % of blame is still not equal. Manus % of blame a lot higher than everyone else. So to take "manu cost the le" and interpret it as people not understanding basketball is condescending. If fact, we do understand basketball and are stating that, all things taken into account, to the fullest extent that one player can he held responsible for a loss in a team game, in game 6 of the NBA finals, that player was Manu Ginobili.

I would hope that someone as intelligent as yourself would understand that.

No, you misunderstood me, I never said you were not intelligent. In fact just the opposite. I commended you on your rationality and only disagree with one point.
I don't know where you thought I was insulting your intelligence which I was not.
My best guess is that you were reacting to my last sentence, but I purposely worded it the way I did so that would not happen. I said "one" not "you" to differentiate between you and the haters.
Sorry, didn't mean you. I sincerely liked your opinion.

[Arcadian]

I don't understand the premise. "Turning the corner" isn't something you do when you're on the decline in your career and have already been on the decline for a number of years. I don't think you know what that term actually means.

What you perhaps meant to say was that he will "recover from disaster" somewhat. I do think that can happen to some extent. He needs to be more cautious if we get back to the Finals and play a smaller role. If he does that, he'll be fine.

[DAF86]

Well, he can decide to take else 3 pointers but that won't make him a better player.

If it improves his FG% and decision making yes, yes it will make him a better player.

[rascal]

Manu is nothing more than a role player. Problem is he thinks he is still at the top of his game and the spurs will try to use him like a star who will carry the team.

[Skull-1]

Manu is nothing more than a role player. Problem is he thinks he is still at the top of his game and the spurs will try to use him like a star who will carry the team.

Truth nuke.

[Skull-1]

I'm sorry, but Manu doesn't belong in that club:

Jordan - 39 mpg, 82 games played, 3200 total minutes
Drexler - 35 mpg, 70 games played, 2500 total minutes

Ginobili - 23 mpg, 60 games played, 1400 total minutes

It's clear that Jordan and Drexler were still top tier shooting guards at age 35. Both were first option players on their respective teams. Manu was 4th option in the regular season and 5th option in the playoffs last year. Quite a steep drop from being the first option on the team two years ago. He's clearly declining - Pop keeps decreasing his minutes and he still can't handle the grind of an 82 game season. Unacceptable considering the ridiculous amount of money he was paid last year. I know you want to cheer up the depressed Manu fans, Bruno, but there's no need to exaggerate Manu's impact.

Johnny R once again wit da Stat Nuke of Truth. Boom.

[KL2]

I wouldn't be surprised if he does start off well, but as always he'll get injured and take months to regain his rhythm, time that the Spurs may not have.