Atheist LOL

[xmas1997]

We experience time. We experience motion through space. there are all manner of experiments in physics that describe this.

You hand can be your hand as a whole and still be reducible. Its called a sense of scale. Again we can recreate all of the above.

I am even fine with rationalism as long as the rationale is based in some verifiable truth and based on proven logic.

Bringing up partially understood topics like the nature of time in cosmology or the infinitesimal nature of matter at the plank scale and trying to equate it to your mystical nonsense is just horse . There is no reason to believe that any of that is true. Instead we consider it possible and do experiments to see whether or not it is true.

The above is nothing like the mystical bull that you are selling. You grant that it is not provable but still maintain its validity regardless. You don't even endeavor to prove it.

I can accept your criticism in a civil manner because for the most part you use rational arguments.
However, your arguments begin to lose their validity due to your apparent need to resort to insults in order to make your points!
If you would refrain from those, then you just might get a rational response in reply.
If your aim is nothing but disrespect, then you should expect nothing but disrespect in return.
The choice is yours. It does not hurt me in the slightest, however it does hurt the overall credibility of your post, thus rendering it pretty much invalid and not worth discussing with you.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I can accept your criticism in a civil manner because for the most part you use rational arguments.
However, your arguments begin to lose their validity due to your apparent need to resort to insults in order to make your points!
If you would refrain from those, then you just might get a rational response in reply.
If your aim is nothing but disrespect, then you should expect nothing but disrespect in return.
The choice is yours. It does not hurt me in the slightest, however it does hurt the overall credibility of your post, thus rendering it pretty much invalid and not worth discussing with you.

Nice dodge. I deride with insults certainly. On the contrary to most that do so, I justify it. For example, I call your position mystical bull but I immediately explain that is because you admit that it is unprovable and you don't even try to prove it. I compare that with the things you were comparing it to like cosmology and quantum mechanics by pointing out that those are scrutinized with experimentation.

What I wanted to do was call your stance intellectual cowardice because that is how I feel about it but I left that out because I felt that was a personal insult; however, your position here makes it very clear that when the rubber actually meets the road when scrutinizing your beliefs that you will call me a meanie and pick up you toys and go home. So be it and so I will just say what I feel then. It still will be what it is.

My arguments are not rational. They are empirical. If you would like I can find a high school physics lab manual and we can go over the experiments for time and vectors. For the other, as I said, I am fine with rational constructs as long as they are derived from known truths. They are two completely different concepts.

[xmas1997]

Nice dodge. I deride with insults certainly. On the contrary to most that do so, I justify it. For example, I call your position mystical bull but I immediately explain that is because you admit that it is unprovable and you don't even try to prove it. I compare that with the things you were comparing it to like cosmology and quantum mechanics by pointing out that those are scrutinized with experimentation.

What I wanted to do was call your stance intellectual cowardice because that is how I feel about it but I left that out because I felt that was a personal insult; however, your position here makes it very clear that when the rubber actually meets the road when scrutinizing your beliefs that you will call me a meanie and pick up you toys and go home. So be it and so I will just say what I feel then. It still will be what it is.

My arguments are not rational. They are empirical. If you would like I can find a high school physics lab manual and we can go over the experiments for time and vectors. For the other, as I said, I am fine with rational constructs as long as they are derived from known truths. They are two completely different concepts.

It was never my intention to dodge anything, but it is your prerogative to feel that I am even though the truth is to the contrary. It just makes discussing it much more adversarial, and I didn't want to go that route because I approach this with a sincere desire to see all points of view and remain open minded. I am not so ego based as to close my mind to any and all ideas.

When you lace your points with clearly intentional insults, you cannot expect to get any sort of civil reply whiteout contention in return, and the discussion gravitates to the gutter. Didn't you realize this happen, or did you just want to be contentious? Because when you resort to that tactic to frame your points, they are neither rational nor empirical. They are adversarial.

I am always willing to go to the physics manuals for reference, it was after all my degree, while my minor was in philosophy. I have no fear there, and in point of fact prefer those routes. You seem IMHO not willing to keep emotionalism out of the discussion, otherwise why try to incite adversity with insults?

Is this how you go about making all of your points in everyday life? Do you best grow and learn this way?

I do not, nor will it persuade me of anything whether I am right or wrong about something. If it does you, my point was that you are simply discussing it with the wrong person.
Make all the excuses you like for my at ude about this, it will have little effect on me except to turn me off. Since I too have free will I choose to only discuss these things with civility because I learn the best that way.

Can you understand this? Can you see I am not evading? Can you see that I refuse to be put on the defensive in a simple forum of discussion?

If you can't then, then neither of us can help bridge the gap between our divergent point of views, thus rendering our discussion pointless, and ultimately fruitless.

So why bother? I have better things to do. So should you. It is not that I do not have a desire to discuss these things with you or anyone else for that matter, it just I refuse to be baited into being involved in what I consider to be an agenda of pissing contests.

IMHO I have wasted all this time and thought explaining these negatives, rather than spending it discussing the positives of what I really found interesting about your arguments.
Hope you understand my at ude now, and why I was reluctant, after reading your negative post.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It was never my intention to dodge anything, but it is your prerogative to feel that I am even though the truth is to the contrary. It just makes discussing it much more adversarial, and I didn't want to go that route because I approach this with a sincere desire to see all points of view and remain open minded. I am not so ego based as to close my mind to any and all ideas.

When you lace your points with clearly intentional insults, you cannot expect to get any sort of civil reply whiteout contention in return, and the discussion gravitates to the gutter. Didn't you realize this happen, or did you just want to be contentious? Because when you resort to that tactic to frame your points, they are neither rational nor empirical. They are adversarial.

I am always willing to go to the physics manuals for reference, it was after all my degree, while my minor was in philosophy. I have no fear there, and in point of fact prefer those routes. You seem IMHO not willing to keep emotionalism out of the discussion, otherwise why try to incite adversity with insults?

Is this how you go about making all of your points in everyday life? Do you best grow and learn this way?

I do not, nor will it persuade me of anything whether I am right or wrong about something. If it does you, my point was that you are simply discussing it with the wrong person.
Make all the excuses you like for my at ude about this, it will have little effect on me except to turn me off. Since I too have free will I choose to only discuss these things with civility because I learn the best that way.

Can you understand this? Can you see I am not evading? Can you see that I refuse to be put on the defensive in a simple forum of discussion?

If you can't then, then neither of us can help bridge the gap between our divergent point of views, thus rendering our discussion pointless, and ultimately fruitless.

So why bother? I have better things to do. So should you. It is not that I do not have a desire to discuss these things with you or anyone else for that matter, it just I refuse to be baited into being involved in what I consider to be an agenda of pissing contests.

IMHO I have wasted all this time and thought explaining these negatives, rather than spending it discussing the positives of what I really found interesting about your arguments.
Hope you understand my at ude now, and why I was reluctant, after reading your negative post.

All I see is you whining about my behavior and still going the cowardly route of believing the unbelievable and not trying to prove it.

You give me an objective truth and then we can bridge the gap otherwise your wasting your time. Complaining because I think that your approach is intellectual cowardice or because I characterize beliefs not based on objective truth as mystical horse is not going to change my stance. If that bothers you then ignore me but if you are going to proselytize then I will say my piece whether or not you ignore me.

[silverblk mystix]

Actually I understood him pretty well.
If I may clarify a little, he did not say To look inside for HIS PERSONAL Truth, on the contrary, he said for YOU to look inside of YOU , for YOUR personal Truth. And you just might find that both Truths are one and the same.
He also said to lay aside all of your preconceived notions, fears, dogmas, worries, opinions, ego, insignificant knowledge, trivialities, etc. in order to get to the real Truth.
SBM does not have a monopoly on Truth, no one does, but he has a valid su ion of the best way to get to it IMHO.
Does this help? Or does it really matter to you?
This much has been shown by all the great thinkers and doers in mankind's history, that if you seek the Truth, you will eventually find it. But if your mind is stuffed to the brim with pure D crap then it is next to impossible.
Maybe to some this sounds like mysticism or some such BS, but that is just another label that lazy ignorant people use to get out of putting forth the effort. Did Aristotle or Jesus or Einstein or Buddha or any of the other great thinkers give up?
Many thought them to be mystics in their time as well.

I never thanked you for your thoughtful take - unfortunately - you or anyone saying anything positive about me - won't make you any friends in here.




I also just read the above exchange and it appears that you are an intelligent person and open to truth - while the person insulting you - and then claiming superiority - only revealed himself to be far below someone that would be capable of a gentlemanly discussion.

It is what it is - and someone throwing out the phrase "mystical bull " is revealing that he is already closed off to any truth from the spiritual side.

Pretty revealing in itself.

[silverblk mystix]

All I see is you whining about my behavior and still going the cowardly route of believing the unbelievable and not trying to prove it.

You give me an objective truth and then we can bridge the gap otherwise your wasting your time. Complaining because I think that your approach is intellectual cowardice or characterizing beliefs not based on objective proofs as mystical horse is not going to change my stance. If that bothers you then ignore me but if you are going to proselytize then I will say my piece whether or not you ignore me.

^ this is someone who considers himself educated and accomplished and considers others as inferior ^


Insult after insult after insult - lead to wrong conclusions and flame wars. In other words - standard behavior by forum "intelligent" posters.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

^ this is someone who considers himself educated and accomplished and considers others as inferior ^


Insult after insult after insult - lead to wrong conclusions and flame wars. In other words - standard behavior by forum "intelligent" posters.

Half of what you bolded aren't even insults. 'Complaining,' 'believing the unbelievable,' and 'not changing my stance' are insults?

And nevermind the original post in question that drew the complaints.

Nice story time about what I consider myself though. As I pointed out before. I justify what I say with reasons. You cannot even figure out what are insults.

You constant complaints on the behavior of others does little to mask your cowardice in regards to having your views examined. We can talk about the merits of empirical reductionism versus your christianity all day.

[silverblk mystix]

Half of what you bolded aren't even insults. 'Complaining,' 'believing the unbelievable,' and 'not changing my stance' are insults?

And nevermind the original post in question that drew the complaints.

Nice story time about what I consider myself though. As I pointed out before. I justify what I say with reasons. You cannot even figure out what are insults.

The bolded things are your way of communicating -

This IYO leads to what?

A civil conversation?

Is this how you communicate to someone's face?

If someone spoke to you - in this manner - what would be your reaction?

I know - in here - anonymously - you will label it whining and cowardly - and there is no reason for xmas to even reply to you.

You get what you pay for.

[Blake]

The bolded things are your way of communicating -

This IYO leads to what?

A civil conversation?

Is this how you communicate to someone's face?

If someone spoke to you - in this manner - what would be your reaction?

I know - in here - anonymously - you will label it whining and cowardly - and there is no reason for xmas to even reply to you.

You get what you pay for.

lol you get what you pay for

If you go the "give them a taste of their own medicine" route, your continued whining and complaining broadcasts you as being that much more of an emotional pussy.....And a hypocritical moron.

if the truth hurts, stop being a pussy, hypocrite and moron.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The bolded things are your way of communicating -

This IYO leads to what?

A civil conversation?

Is this how you communicate to someone's face?

If someone spoke to you - in this manner - what would be your reaction?

I know - in here - anonymously - you will label it whining and cowardly - and there is no reason for xmas to even reply to you.

You get what you pay for.

The whole post is how I communicate, dumbass. After your spiel about being a hypocrite and not giving a , I cold really care less how you take how I write.

IMO, it leads you to understanding what I think and why I think it.

And why do you think I would care if he responds to me? While he may not like what I had to say I know he read it and I know that I put quite of bit of basis for thinking what I think. It has not escaped me that he, much like you do in everything, avoids the basis but that speaks more to me then what you do write.

[silverblk mystix]

^ conveniently forgetting that snitching is a pussy tactic ^ suddenly he is anonymously tough^

^returning insults - get you snitched out and banned ^ yet being civil and trying to discuss and point out hypocritical behavior makes you an "emotional pussy" ^ very confusing hypocrite talk^

[silverblk mystix]

The whole post is how I communicate, dumbass. After your spiel about being a hypocrite and not giving a , I cold really care less how you take how I write.

IMO, it leads you to understanding what I think and why I think it.

And why do you think I would care if he responds to me? While he may not like what I had to say I know he read it and I know that I put quite of bit of basis for thinking what I think. It has not escaped me that he, much like you do in everything, avoids the basis but that speaks more to me then what you do write.

^ an educated person ^ in his opinion ^

[Blake]

^ conveniently forgetting that snitching is a pussy tactic ^ suddenly he is anonymously tough^

^returning insults - get you snitched out and banned ^ yet being civil and trying to discuss and point out hypocritical behavior makes you an "emotional pussy" ^ very confusing hypocrite talk^

It's confusing to you because you're stupid.

[silverblk mystix]

^ back to angry labeling ^ very conducive to intelligent conversations ^

*this freakin' spell checker on the new OSX Mavericks sux* it is a nazi - spell checker *

[Blake]

I don't care to have intelligent conversations with you any more. You can't keep up because you're stupid.

You also can't keep it civil. It takes little time for you to call me a cuck.

stop labeling me. Only I get to angrily label you.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

^ an educated person ^ in his opinion ^

so this is the point where you try to get me to go in circles like you are doing with blake. it's a boring waste of my time. If you actually want to discuss an empirical basis for theism or really anything other than this insipid roundabout you seem to do every day then post about it. I am not going to waste my time further.

[Blake]

so this is the point where you try to get me to go in circles like you are doing with blake. it's a boring waste of my time. If you actually want to discuss an empirical basis for theism or really anything other than this insipid roundabout you seem to do every day then post about it. I am not going to waste my time further.

Yeah, it's a waste of time for me too.

sometimes it's boring, sometimes it's entertaining

[silverblk mystix]

^regulated trolls realizing they can't defend their stupidity when it is pointed out^

[Woo Bum-kon]

^regulated trolls realizing they can't defend their stupidity when it is pointed out^

You're not helping civil discourse with that language.

[silverblk mystix]

^ this troll of another troll has never said anything worthwhile in years ^

[Woo Bum-kon]

Your actions are still not conducive to civil discourse. If you're going to keep complaining about others throwing around insults, don't throw around insults yourself. Your actions speak much louder than your words.

[silverblk mystix]

^ someone please remind this troll the dozens of times that I have said - we are ALL hypocrites in here - only difference is that I admit it ^

the rest are in denial.

[Woo Bum-kon]

Then your complaints ring hollow. It makes no sense whatsoever to constantly complain about namecalling while name calling yourself. The only way to be taken seriously is to stop the namecalling yourself.

[Blake]

^ someone please remind this troll the dozens of times that I have said - we are ALL hypocrites in here - only difference is that I admit it ^

the rest are in denial.

you're too stupid to understand the definition of hypocrisy.

[Clipper Nation]

^ someone please remind this troll the dozens of times that I have said - we are ALL hypocrites in here - only difference is that I admit it ^

the rest are in denial.

You're apparently too stupid to grasp the point that whether you admit it or not, your hypocrisy means that your complaints about namecalling and trolling have no credibility, tbh... practice what you preach or STFU...