Warriors: Is A Prime Harden Better Than A Prime Manu?

[KaiRMD1]

The worst thing for a young player to do is be the main leader for a team. They never mature correctly. Then again, Kobe wasn't a leader until later but it was too late for him to be an effective leader.

[AchillesHeel]

But wait Achilles thought amb and others preach les are team accomplishments and should not decide player comparison debates.

Yeah, but when KD is averaging 30 ppg on above 50% shooting and Alpha is averaging 27 ppg during that Finals series, Harden is expected to step up as well. Instead, he was a defensive liability and allowed all those crazy threes by Mike Miller and Chalmers.

les are team accomplishments in terms of everyone playing a role in a win/loss, you can look at the stats and the biggest plays to determine who did the most for that team.

People wonder why they traded Harden back then, he came off averaging 12.4 ppg on 37,5% shooting in the Finals, he was looked at as a defensive liability that choked on the big stage, they were getting picks and prospects in return, the trade might have actually paid off if Steve Adams continues to improve, he's already had some solid games and his what OKC were missing, a skilled big man.

Harden is a good offensive player, but he's basically a 35 yr old Kirby WHILE in his prime, but without the elite post game. He will draw a lot of fouls and get to the line, he will hit the 3, he will use some flashy moves to get layups and he makes some plays, but that's about all that he can actually do. He's not a player that will lead you to a le, not unless he gets a defensive coach that will make him play defense. He ain't gonna become even an average defender under a coach like McHale.

[DAF86]

lol Harden being a more explosive scorer than Manu.

That's a perception given by the fact that Harden has had his chance to chuck shots as a number one guy on mediocre team. Manu even with Duncan and Parker on his team has had his more than decent amount of 35/40+ pts. Give him the chance to be almost the only reliable offensive option on a team like Harden had last season and I bet he would have looked pretty explosive getting the ball in the hoop.

To answer the question, yes, Manu at his prime is better than this version of Harden (Don't know if this is his prime yet, he's very young). It might be the homer in me speaking but I don't see a single thing Harden does better than prime Manu: he isn't as athletic, he isn't as complete on offense as Manu was, he doesn't seem to be as good as leader as Manu was and he definitely isn't as good on defense as Manu was. The one argument one could make for Harden is the durability thing but even then Harden at age 24/25 or whatever he is now has had as many (if not more) injuries than Manu had at that age.

[ezau]

^ You just can't get enough of the dishes.

Son, go ask Jerry if he enjoyed the Sweep

[ezau]

Manu has won three rings, and also gave away two in his career. I love Manu, but I don't think he will become the player that he is today without Tim and Pop. As far as the comparison goes, Harden will have better numbers than Manu when his career is over just by being healthier and more durable. Even so, I don't think Harden will win any ring in his career, tbh.

[Indazone]

Fck NO! Prime Manu could pass the ball through a keyhole. Manu was sick. Drop 35 points on you in a heart beat and play within the system and plays both offense and defense with heart. At one point, people were asking if Manu was better than T-Mac.

[Koolaid_Man]

Also Manu probably didn't pay as much for pussy as Harden does. Harden flies in twitter pros utes to Houston and pays them $20K to ball him and his friends. So there's that.

excellent truth bomb

[Koolaid_Man]

lol Harden being a more explosive scorer than Manu.

That's a perception given by the fact that Harden has had his chance to chuck shots as a number one guy on mediocre team. Manu even with Duncan and Parker on his team has had his more than decent amount of 35/40+ pts. Give him the chance to be almost the only reliable offensive option on a team like Harden had last season and I bet he would have looked pretty explosive getting the ball in the hoop.

To answer the question, yes, Manu at his prime is better than this version of Harden (Don't know if this is his prime yet, he's very young). It might be the homer in me speaking but I don't see a single thing Harden does better than prime Manu: he isn't as athletic, he isn't as complete on offense as Manu was, he doesn't seem to be as good as leader as Manu was and he definitely isn't as good on defense as Manu was. The one argument one could make for Harden is the durability thing but even then Harden at age 24/25 or whatever he is now has had as many (if not more) injuries than Manu had at that age.

I didn't intend for this to be a Manu circle jerk thread...while I concede I think Manu is better let me also play devil's advocate....perhaps I should look at Harden being better because of what Spur fan say about Kobe...since Shaq was the sole reason Kobe was a decent player we need to apply that same soothing balm to Manu...Harden never played with a dominant big like Duncan who was doubled team allowing Manu free shots and drives to the basket...so I think we need to really look at if Manu is actually better than Harden without this advantage...

one major difference with Kobe ( although affecting his shooting %) was that he could get his shot from anywhere on the court I don't think Manu or Harden have that ability when they're personally doubled teamed

[DAF86]

I didn't intend for this to be a Manu circle jerk thread...while I concede I think Manu is better let me also play devil's advocate....perhaps I should look at Harden being better because of what Spur fan say about Kobe...since Shaq was the sole reason Kobe was a decent player we need to apply that same soothing balm to Manu...Harden never played with a dominant big like Duncan who was doubled team allowing Manu free shots and drives to the basket...so I think we need to really look at of Manu is actually better than Harden without this advantage...

I know that you made this thread to knock on Harden 'cause you're salty that everybody but Kobe homers think that he is better than the raper you adore but that won't keep me from speaking the truth son. God bless.

[ambchang]

Why is the saltiness spreading to beard? Keep your beef with d12 OP. You area already as bitter as a 3 time divorced middle aged woman.

[Chomag]

Harden is more skilled but not even close to having a heart of a worrier like Manu did in prime. So I give Manu the edge.

[DAF86]

Harden is more skilled but not even close to having a heart of a worrier like Manu did in prime. So I give Manu the edge.

In what way is Harden more skilled than Manu?

[Koolaid_Man]

Harden is more skilled but not even close to having a heart of a worrier like Manu did in prime. So I give Manu the edge.

Manu was only good because Duncan opened up the lane by virtue of being double teamed...because of this I'm forced to reconsider my position.

[Koolaid_Man]

I know that you made this thread to knock on Harden 'cause you're salty that everybody but Kobe homers think that he is better than the raper you adore but that won't keep me from speaking the truth son. God bless.

Pretty lame response...would be easier to just admit I'm right or concede that Shaq didn't make Kobe...either way its quite the conundrum for you.

[Rogue]

Harden would performer even better than prime Manu if he also had the fortune to play in a great system like the spurs but I'm not sure if a great team would ever give a pivotal role to someone who plays zero defense. The prime Manu was twice the defender he currently is and even today's Manu is way better than Harden defensively.

[DAF86]

Pretty lame response...would be easier to just admit I'm right or concede that Shaq didn't make Kobe...either way its quite the conundrum for you.

I don't think Shaq "made" Kobe. I do think that the Kobefans that use the championships argument to overrate Kobe's place in the all-time list intentionally omit that he won three of his five rings as a side-kick.

[Buddy Mignon]

Manu... and its not even close. Manu was better in every aspect of the game. Not to mention he actually sacrificed much of his game to allow Parker and Duncan to thrive and make Pops system run smoothly. Harden doesn't sacrifice and he has no heart when his back is against the wall. Manu was the second best shooting guard in the league behind Kobe for a while. That's right... he was better than Ray, Carter and Tmac.

[Buddy Mignon]

I don't think Shaq "made" Kobe. I do think that the Kobefans that use the championships argument to overrate Kobe's place in the all-time list intentionally omit that he won three of his five rings as a side-kick.

Remove the les and search for Kobe on the all-time stats list. He's killing Bird, Magic, Duncan, and Shaq.

[DAF86]

Remove the les and search for Kobe on the all-time stats list. He's killing Bird, Magic, Duncan, and Shaq.

Not in the stats I care about. I don't give a if Kobe scores more pts than anybody when he misses a bunch more shots than anybody.

[ambchang]

Remove the les and search for Kobe on the all-time stats list. He's killing Bird, Magic, Duncan, and Shaq.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...46#post6937846

Like these stats?

[DMC]

Harden isn't going to get a lot better. His main strength, quickness, isn't going to improve. His FT shooting is already about as good as it will get. His only hope is that his passing ability and decision making ability improves as he learns the game.

[Mugen]

Manu also flopped in a less gy way than Harden tbh.

[hater]

Manu also flopped in a less gy way than Harden tbh.

Harden does the same exact thing Manu did tbh

it's just that back then those were obvious flops, in today's NBA those are questionable calls. don't get me wrong, back in the 80s Manu or Harden would have been put on a permanent wheel chair for trying to draw those fouls