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What?! He already is ...but he can build a stronger case. He still needs at least 5 to be close to MJ. But I have said for 3 years he has An outside shot for GOAT
Didnt u read what I said? When you have the physicals of this size + refs not calling on your 3 steps layup, if a defender defends the normal way, its a free layup every time. Thats why they stand 2 feet away and just let him shoot instead. This has nth to do with whether we lost or not. Cant I just not be impressed with a player because I feel he has so much more potential than what he is showing? I am not buying into the hype that he is the best player. I believe he is the player with the best size at his position yes, but fundamentals and skills wise, no. And why i said that once his physicals are gone he is gone, is not a general athlete way. Its just saying that all he is reliant on is his physicals. Thats all.
What?! He already is ...but he can build a stronger case. He still needs at least 5 to be close to MJ. But I have said for 3 years he has An outside shot for GOAT
"Subtle.."
I hear you. The fact that you are bringing those names up, is whats interesting. Those are GOATs comparisons.
I agree, although, at least 5 sounds like a lot. I would say 4, assuming he owns Jordan in rebounds and assists.
I don't care much about Kobe, it is a proven fact that Kobe is also NOT a solid Finals performer. I honestly enjoy watching Kobe's style of play and I don't care much about his accolades and despite of what his die hard fans say, Kobe absolutely disappoints in the Finals minus one series against Orlando, but I'm not here to talk about his inefficiency. I'm here to discuss and hear from Lebron fans why his career 42% FG shooting in the NBA Finals is overlooked
I hear all this MJ comparison talk which definitely shows the age of most posters here, but I would love to at least a solid rebuttal, no deflection and reasonable take what has Lebron done to merit so much praise when he's been a mediocre in the Finals throughout his career.
35%
41%
47%
44%
Would Jordan have had fewer points in a Finals series thus far than Danny Green? Could you imagine Jordan having a three-game stretch in the NBA Finals where he would shoot 7-for-30 from outside the paint, like James has in the first three games against the Spurs? Somehow, I don’t think so (Mind you, Lebron outdid himself shooting 30% twice in a single NBA Finals series)
Think about this: In a season where Jordan’s Bulls reached the Finals, the lowest scoring average he had in those six post seasons was 30.7 points per game. These are just numbers that LeBron James cannot approach.
One could argue that NBA Finals games where a series is tied are the most important. And if that’s truly the case, Jordan’s numbers in those games over his career dwarf James’ stats:
Even Series Games FG % 3 FG % Points Reb Assists FTA Win %
Jordan 10 50.6 48.3 33.7 6 6.2 8 80
James 8 42.3 30.6 20.5 10.1 6.25 4.1 37.5
I know, Lebron stans will point that MJ had bad shooting nights and he certainly had those. But MJ never failed to show up. That Seattle series was his worst finals series IMO. It was a defensive struggle and he was matched up against one of the 3 or 4 greatest on the ball defenders of all time IMO and he still averaged 27 pts, 5 rbs and 4 asts on 42% shooting. LeBron on the other hand allowed himself to be taken out of games by the renowned defender Boris Diaw and Kawhi Leonard. Boris Diaw?? Do you realize that LeBron scored less than 20 pts as many times in the 2013 playoff run as MJ did in his entire 179 game playoff career? And the 5-19 was an outlier. For his playoff career he shot 49% while going for 33 pts 6 rbs and 6 asts. AVERAGED!!
I didn't read all that nonsense,I don't care much about Kobe, it is a proven fact that Kobe is also NOT a solid Finals performer. I honestly enjoy watching Kobe's style of play and I don't care much about his accolades and despite of what his die hard fans say, Kobe absolutely disappoints in the Finals minus one series against Orlando, but I'm not here to talk about his inefficiency. I'm here to discuss and hear from Lebron fans why his career 42% FG shooting in the NBA Finals is overlooked
I hear all this MJ comparison talk which definitely shows the age of most posters here, but I would love to at least a solid rebuttal, no deflection and reasonable take what has Lebron done to merit so much praise when he's been a mediocre in the Finals throughout his career.
35%
41%
47%
44%
Would Jordan have had fewer points in a Finals series thus far than Danny Green? Could you imagine Jordan having a three-game stretch in the NBA Finals where he would shoot 7-for-30 from outside the paint, like James has in the first three games against the Spurs? Somehow, I don’t think so (Mind you, Lebron outdid himself shooting 30% twice in a single NBA Finals series)
Think about this: In a season where Jordan’s Bulls reached the Finals, the lowest scoring average he had in those six post seasons was 30.7 points per game. These are just numbers that LeBron James cannot approach.
One could argue that NBA Finals games where a series is tied are the most important. And if that’s truly the case, Jordan’s numbers in those games over his career dwarf James’ stats:
Even Series Games FG % 3 FG % Points Reb Assists FTA Win %
Jordan 10 50.6 48.3 33.7 6 6.2 8 80
James 8 42.3 30.6 20.5 10.1 6.25 4.1 37.5
I know, Lebron stans will point that MJ had bad shooting nights and he certainly had those. But MJ never failed to show up. That Seattle series was his worst finals series IMO. It was a defensive struggle and he was matched up against one of the 3 or 4 greatest on the ball defenders of all time IMO and he still averaged 27 pts, 5 rbs and 4 asts on 42% shooting. LeBron on the other hand allowed himself to be taken out of games by the renowned defender Boris Diaw and Kawhi Leonard. Boris Diaw?? Do you realize that LeBron scored less than 20 pts as many times in the 2013 playoff run as MJ did in his entire 179 game playoff career? And the 5-19 was an outlier. For his playoff career he shot 49% while going for 33 pts 6 rbs and 6 asts. AVERAGED!!
However, why does one superstar have to be exactly like another in order to be as good a player? That seems to be a general mental roadblock for many of you. Players have different strengths and weaknesses, and it's how they impact the game that matters, not how they match up stat for stat against another player. Only dip stat s like you who know jack about the game drag all that worthless into a discussion. Each player, James and Jordan, led their respective teams to championships. We know what Mike did, and James is still going. Kobe is done, so that's your main issue here (and the issue of a few other ty posters) to semen shield your fake ass hero and try to make him relevant by playing confirmation bias stat games.
The suckage here is at all time levels, dude, and that's due to being in the ing grave in Lakers land. You zombies need to get a grip.
Blah blah blah refs
Blah blah blah physical
He's the best player. You don't have to buy into it.
Why does a thread about how great Lebron is playing turn in to a Kobe thread? Lebron is great Kobe is great
. But they don't need to be compared constantly.
Lebron is the best basketball player ever already IMO. No worse than top 3.
Wow DPG bold statement. I say you can't say he is the greatest yet. Top 5? Think you could argue he is already there or close. imany have Bird top 5 and I think james has passed him tbh
To me, for everything he does, on both sides of the ball (despite trophy count) he is the best player ever. He is the most physically dominant, overall skilled and versatile player. He can win in any system because he can play every system. Plus, once you've won a couple les/mvps the ring count thing becomes less important overall. I have no doubt in my mind that top 3 is the lowest you can put Lebron.
Because the only reason many of you Lakers fans deny Lebron's place in the stack is because you still have unrequited love for Kobe. That's very obvious, Killakobe81.
Ever see those ESPN US Map polls? They ask "who's the best player in the game today" and the entire nation is red for (Lebron) except Oklahoma and LA, and we know why, and they are wrong.
I guess for me I'm talking about career not prime. I never saw wilt so I wouldn't put wilt over James...but prime wise kareem and mj for sure. Shaq in 2000 and hakeems back2back were comparable primes. Career wise I still give magic a slight edge but if James stays healthy he may only trail Jordan. But if he is great as you easy and I think in a league with no one close to him as a rival and with a hof teammate just past his own prime lebron has to get at least 5 to be goat. 5 plus the stats and accolades may give Lebron the edge. Rings still matter.
Last edited by Killakobe81; 11-17-2013 at 02:56 PM.
But what am I denying? I called Lebron borderline top 5 definitely goat SF and better than Bird. Not only today, but two years running. He had only to ring before I gave him full credit. I bet the times I have said he has an outside shot at goat is probably in the 20s ...again that aint me ...its like me comparing you to the homers upstairs. I enjoy Kobe i am a fan, but his prime is long past. Not a Lebrton fan but I appreciate his greatness.
And don't get why folks have to be so extreme. Kobe has a beautiful game and lebron a more efficient and dominant one.
Either way hh post was about James not Kobe.
Maybe to you, but selfish chucking certainly isn't a "beautiful" game to me, tbh....
Shot selection is shaky. But speaking of form, foot work and fundamentals. Do not be dense. Again let's refocus on James being a potential GOAT Kobe tried but fell short. James still has a real shot.
5 rings is such a random number? How on Earth do people arrive at these ring counts? Once you win multiple, it becomes less important IMO. Especially when you have multiple MVP's and are in rare company with multiple MVP's/Finals MVP's in the same season.
Just for clarity, where do you rank Kobe?
Shot selection is arguably the most important fundamental of all, imho.... you can have all the footwork in the world but if you play selfish basketball, ignore your teammates and chuck up bad shots, it doesn't mean much, tbh....
Lebron will never be goat. Too much failure for him to ever surpass either MJs
You're not accounting for the fact that centers are more valuable than guards/forwards. I will always take Wilt/Kareem/Hakeem/Russell/Duncan/Shaq over any small forward regardless of how good he is, simply because centers are more valuable.
2nd greatest SG ... Top 3 Laker ...
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