General Trades Discussion

[Baam]

Spurs don't need a defensive big, anyways..

Duncan, while struggling on offense, is still at least a "good" defender, and Splitter is a solid all-around defender..if the Spurs acquire another big, he needs to be competent on offense, tbh..if not able to create for himself, then at least have the capability of making a jump shot..

Asik is a great defensive player and easily a superior interior defender to Splitter, but his offense is worse than Tiago's in every facet..acquiring a better interior defender but a far worse offensive player makes absolutely no sense for this Spurs team, tbh..Asik is essentially a zero on offense, opposing teams don't have to respect any facet of his offensive game..at least Splitter is a terrific passer and a very good pick&roll finisher..

The Spurs were an elite defensive team last year and they have looked the same so far this year..if they make a move, I'd say they need a backup guard that can create(Jameer Nelson, for instance) or a small-ball 4/athletic PF(although Kawhi + Diaw 2.0 is probably sufficient)..

Imo what they could really use is a center, either more skilled than Tiago on the perimeter or stronger in the post. Gasol has quick feet AND a jumper, Tiago is missing something to be valuable with a declining Duncan...

Boris is one of the best small ball 4 in the nba and Beli was signed to create off the bench...

[Chinook]

Pretty much Asik can't start next to Duncan, since teams will PnR them to death. Dias isn't the solution, since if he starts in Asik's place to guard the PnR, then Asik will be upset to not be starting. Also, he's definitely so much better than Splitter that he is worth trading for as a backup. Not only is Splitter a serviceable post defender, but there is a major lack of dominant post bigs in the league today. We're talking Al Jefferson and Brook Lopez as the only two who are polished, and neither one is likely to be on a contender for the next two years. Hibbert is raw and only looks good against bad front courts. James is a combo-forward and can't be defended by centers anyway.

Finally, Duncan is a really good post defender and will have to play that role in the post-season. Simply put, if Tim can't defend the post, then he'll be a defensive liability. It's just not sustainable to have a big who can neither play inside nor outside on the court. He can't even offer weak-side help if he's not the one in the post to start with.

[Chinook]

So moving on from Asik, what do you guys think of Cleveland's power-forwards? Any interest you? It's true the Spurs don't have any instant help for them outside of maybe Green or Belinelli when he's eligible to be traded next month. But the Cavs also have to fix their logjam at the four as it's about as bad as the point-guard spot is for the Spurs. A decent package of picks/prospects and expirings may be able to get one.

I personally don't see any of them as being worth it unless the Spurs win the trade handedly. Thompson is Blair with a jumpshot, Bennett is a combo-forward in a bad way, Clark would probably be stuck on the bench and Varejao is Splitter on an expiring and more overrated.

[Brazil]

Varejao is no Splitter. They are quite different players tbh. Healthy, Varejao is a hustle kind of player with high rebounding capacity he can finish around the rim and hit occasionally some jumpers. His def is suspect at best IMHO. He is not a bad player but health is a concern, he is seriously injury prone.

Not worth the gamble especially if our guards make up for the lack of rebounding of our bigs. Team is apparently focusing guards to help on that department.

I dont like thompson that muc while I agree Bennett and Clark are not fitting too much.

[Baam]

So moving on from Asik, what do you guys think of Cleveland's power-forwards? Any interest you? It's true the Spurs don't have any instant help for them outside of maybe Green or Belinelli when he's eligible to be traded next month. But the Cavs also have to fix their logjam at the four as it's about as bad as the point-guard spot is for the Spurs. A decent package of picks/prospects and expirings may be able to get one.

I personally don't see any of them as being worth it unless the Spurs win the trade handedly. Thompson is Blair with a jumpshot, Bennett is a combo-forward in a bad way, Clark would probably be stuck on the bench and Varejao is Splitter on an expiring and more overrated.

Yeah we're often coming back to Cleveland, I agree that it's a very intriguing trade partner... Now I agree that I'm not impressed with their bigs, Bennett could be intriguing as a long term project if he learns from Boris but I don't think his value dropt enough quite yet that we could get a good deal...

Waiters apparently got into a fight during a players only meeting about the number of his touches or something... At least that's the rumour...

I think Green would be a compelling piece for them, guy can play off the ball when they have young guys with egos literally fighting for possessions over there... And he's basically the best three point shooter out there and the ideal partner for Kyrie (but that goes for TP as well)... Then again would they be ok with trading for someone they drafted...

I'd do Green + picks for Bennett + Karasev but I don't see it as realistic at this point.

Duncan Splitter
Diaw Bennett
Kawhi Gino
Karasev Beli
TP Mills

Cleveland gets someone who can play off the ball and a Lebron bait tbh. Having Green and Kyrie spreading the floor could make Lebron think, it's basically Curry/Thompson level of spacing...

[FireMicoHalili]

Just read some thoughts in the forum and in PtR. My reactions:

1. If, as one poster suggested, we'd need a good PF to give us a lift when Duncan is struggling, then Bennett might be a good answer.
2. According to PtR, the Spurs system needs shooters more than flashy ball handlers (Nando). Shved, who has fallen out of rotation, might be a good fit and a valuable addition to the UN Crew.

[CGD]

Not sure where to put this since it's early yet to start talking free agency....

if the mavs stink it up or even make it to the playoffs and have a first round loss, is there a chance Dirk leaves the mavs? Would you offer the 35 year old German a two year deal at the expense of a youth movement?

I feel bad for Dirk and how the past few years since the championship have shaped up for him.

[szkorhetz]

Not sure where to put this since it's early yet to start talking free agency....

if the mavs stink it up or even make it to the playoffs and have a first round loss, is there a chance Dirk leaves the mavs? Would you offer the 35 year old German a two year deal at the expense of a youth movement?

I feel bad for Dirk and how the past few years since the championship have shaped up for him.

Dirk on the Spurs paired with Tiago and Duncan would be crazy and deadly, but that just won't happen.

[CGD]

Dirk on the Spurs paired with Tiago and Duncan would be crazy and deadly, but that just won't happen.

I agree it would be hard for him to leave, but I'd be annoyed if I were him given Cubans blunders/gambles since the championship. I also think older players are bound to get low balled (except Manu) when they seek that last contract, so why not try the open market even if only for leverage against your long time team?

[99 Problems]

Spacing for Kyrie is an interesting topic as of yesterday. Coach Brown played rookie Dellavedova during last quarter and OT for 31 minutes in total. Kyrie with the right spacing scored a million points and was back in ASG form.

[jesterbobman]

I wouldn't trade for Bennett. While he was good in College, I don't think anyone other than the Cavs had him as the #1 pick, and he hasn't lit the NBA on fire since coming in. Don't think they give up on Bennett for a Bonner + pick package, and there's no way we should give up Green.

I think we should look at teams who will be out of the playoff chase in February, want to rebuild and want to save money/ Get future assets.

Options are either keep Bonner, play TD/Boris and Tiago/Bonner units(worked 2 years ago) and try to move Baynes/Ayres/Nando/Corey for a deep rotation player.

Or, Move Bonner+ Parts(above, +1st) for a starting level PF. Targets should be
Amir Johnson
Millsap(probably unattainable unless there's a Horford injury and they focus on future)
Jordan Hill
Derrick Williams(I wouldn't, Bonner is a better player)
Jason Thompson (contract duration probably rules him out)

I think Amir is the best target amongst that group. Other option is hope for buyout candidates(Okafor etc)

[Mugen]

"Kings Pushing Hard for Trades"

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/1...d-for-a-trade/

They've got some pieces that could make sense for the Spurs. Mbah a Moute would be a good target and could probably be had for Bonner's expiring tbh

[Godbama]

What about Patrick Patterson?

[Chinook]

What about Patrick Patterson?

Not a fan of trading for someone on an expiring.

[CGD]

^ he has one more year on his deal. Think he'd be exactly the type deal the spurs want: a one year preview and a right to match other teams offer sheets next summer or else let him walk.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i'm beginning to smell a deal with the raptors or the sixers. expiring contract mills is playing himself into a big decision for the spurs. maybe cojo could be moved to the raptors with expiring bonner? maybe mills could moved with his expiring aussie big to the overachieving sixers? mills might be the player to keep, but the sixers roster and picks seem like the more plausible trade options.

[Chinook]

^ he has one more year on his deal.

No he doesn't. This is his final year of his rookie contract. It's not a good thing for the team to have to worry about re-signing anyone besides Diaw and Mills before 2015. Also, the main reason to trade for a big is insurance against Diaw leaving. Patterson would not provide that.

[Baam]

i'm beginning to smell a deal with the raptors or the sixers. expiring contract mills is playing himself into a big decision for the spurs. maybe cojo could be moved to the raptors with expiring bonner? maybe mills could moved with his expiring aussie big to the overachieving sixers? mills might be the player to keep, but the sixers roster and picks seem like the more plausible trade options.

Maybe... But then again what would they give up for Cojo + Bonner kind of package... Not much...

If Duncan doesn't get it together by the end of the year I could see a "big" move on draft night with Green being moved to move up in the draft in the hope of getting a big with potential...

This year moving Bonner and De Colo as expirings makes sense but I'm not sure we can get anything worth much, and I'm not sure the Spurs really want to take back salary, a deal getting us an early second round pick would be nice... They could get a project like Jaiteh as well as a more polished player with the first round pick which wouldn't be a luxury with the post Duncan era looming at the horizon...

Now the only teams that'd give up a pick would be teams trying to make the POs like Minny, Cleveland, the Wiz or the Pelicans...

Minny always seemed like the perfect destination for Bonner as Love's backup...

Për realgm, Minny has 2 second round picks and as well as their own :

2014 second round draft pick from Golden StateGolden State's 2014 2nd round pick to Minnesota [Golden State-Minnesota, 6/27/2013]
2014 second round draft pick from New Orleans

New Orleans' 2014 2nd round pick to Minnesota [Minnesota-New Orleans, 9/9/2009]

Bonner for Schved + Pelis and Wolves seconds

Schved is there to make the trade work and have someone to play one on one with De Colo...

[Chinook]

I think Duncan's done if he fails to have a good season--especially if that means the team flounders. Then you have the fact that at best, Green is worth about what Hill was worth three years ago. The Spurs will not find a great rookie big at 15+.

If Duncan leaves and the Spurs decide to blow it up next season (the latter is incredibly unlikely) they probably would try to move everyone besides Leonard. But I doubt they'd get much in the way of picks.

[Baam]

I think Duncan's done if he fails to have a good season--especially if that means the team flounders. Then you have the fact that at best, Green is worth about what Hill was worth three years ago. The Spurs will not find a great rookie big at 15+.

If Duncan leaves and the Spurs decide to blow it up next season (the latter is incredibly unlikely) they probably would try to move everyone besides Leonard. But I doubt they'd get much in the way of picks.

If ... major if... they blow it up :

I could easily see TP going to New York, they don't have a good PG and still have their 2015 first, plus TP almost signed there which could lead to believe that he wouldnt be unhappy to go there...

Green is easily worth a first rounder for any team with PO aspirations, 3.5M a year means that basically every team could try to trade for him...

Manu I don't know, if they want to tank they play him starting point guard tbh... Since he's the crowd favorite it will help with the attendance in a hard year...

[CGD]

No he doesn't. This is his final year of his rookie contract. It's not a good thing for the team to have to worry about re-signing anyone besides Diaw and Mills before 2015. Also, the main reason to trade for a big is insurance against Diaw leaving. Patterson would not provide that.

What am I missing? http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...ries/kings.jsp

Wouldn't at worst the spurs extend a QO next summer? If someone really wants him they coul outbid.

[CGD]

Now that Manu resigned, I only really see Duncan leaving after this year if he DRobs and wins it all this June. I see them leaving together otherwise.

[Chinook]

What am I missing? http://data.shamsports.com/content/p...ries/kings.jsp

Wouldn't at worst the spurs extend a QO next summer? If someone really wants him they coul outbid.

A QO is not a contract in most cases. It's just a way for a team to keep a player's right of first refusal So Patterson would need a new deal after this season, which would likely cut into 2015 cap space. Essentially, I'm speculating thst the team wants to find a player with exactly one year left on their deal after this one.

[CGD]

^
The spurs have three option though that don't impact the 2015 plan -- extend the QO and refuse to match another teams offer sheet next summer, extend the QO and not offer a contract extension, or retract the QO and let the dude walk. In either scenario they can get him for next year and not have to pay him in 2015.

Spurs really have two bigs they have to worry about resigning next summer, Boris and dare I say Bonner, each presently earning in the ballpark of what Paterson's last year is for. Boris is the priority, but Bonner will be addressed too, and some team is going to bid on the stretch four. Look no further than Houston for example as a team that needs a stretch 4 (Montiejunas has been a bust, and now they're rumored to be after Ryan Anderson).

[Chinook]

No. That's not how restricted free agency works. If the Spurs offer a QO, they then only have the option to match whatever contract Patterson gets. If he signs a four-year offer sheet, the team either has to match that exact offer or let him walk then. A QO is not really a contract. It's just a placeholder. Unless Patterson signs it, it never goes into effect. Also, it cannot be extended once signed. The same was true last summer with Splitter and the summer before with Green and Mills.