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I lean towards LeBron even at 4-2 since James has played most of his career with a complete garbage supporting cast. I think it's pretty likely he finishes regarded better than Magic, Kareem, and Bird.
So if Duncan wins his 5th, you won't put him in the top 5?
I lean towards LeBron even at 4-2 since James has played most of his career with a complete garbage supporting cast. I think it's pretty likely he finishes regarded better than Magic, Kareem, and Bird.
Yes, The King has surpassed Duncan as the best player post-MJ imo.
Bron=2nd best player of all-time
tee, hee.
Does he win the Finals MVP? If the Spurs win another one with Duncan, I don't think it would be Duncan who carries the team.
No, I wouldn't put him in the top 5 with another championship. Kobe has 5 championships and I don't even put him in the top 10.
2 of only 4 players in NBA history to win a le with their #2 option averaging less than 17 points per game in the playoffs, tbh..
Also 2 of only 4 players(IIRC) to lead their teams to a le while being first on the team in Points, Assists, Rebounds and either Blocks/Steals for the run, tbh
It's a shame that s that only played 1 side of the floor like Aidsic Johnson and ugly-ass Larry Bird are ranked ahead of Lebron, Duncan and Hakeem, tbh..
this. one of the dumbest barometers of comparing great players, only slightly ahead of ASG appearances tbh ...
ALL NBA team has been a much better barometer, though sometimes even that sucks.
And for the record rings matter when the players are close. Fisher and Lebron are not close so no matter how many rings fisher has Lebron is greater. Duncan and Lebron are pretty close so I could see the ring argument, here. But as many have said Lebron still has the rest of his prime in front of him barring injury. I can see both sides of the argument but I would say Duncan just barely and of course yall cant resist mentioning Kobe...
you guys can't make this so formulaic, adding les, mvp's, finals mvp's with some magical multiplier for each of them. it doesn't work that way.
Kareem by a healthy margin. After that, I think it's basically a free for all with the next 5 guys all close together. Duncan included in that.
it all depends on this year.
If Lebron 3peats no way can duncan contend with that.
but if lebron fails, he'd have to win at least 2 more to contend with Duncan.
and before someone says "its not about championships" once you get to the level of Lebron vs. Duncan, yes, yes it is about championships
i think there are way too many variables being ignored if you just make it a ring count
Whos Duncan?
I didn't "just" make it a ring count. But once you get to the level of MJ, Shaq, Lebron, Duncan, sometimes # of rings is the difference imo
once each player has multiple rings, the distinction gets hazier. imo the difference between having 0 and 1 ring >>>> the difference between 3 and 4 rings, etc.
actually imo pretty much "anyone" can have 1 ring. The count should start at 2. And if someone 3peats, that counts immensely because it means said superstar maintained the level.
sure other superstars do maintain the level and fail to repeat, or 3peat, but it's harder to prove this without the hardware to prove it.
it could be you were the best player that just didn't happen to be on the best team. shaq was by far the best player in the 2004 finals but he doesn't have any hardware to show for it
sure it's possible, but it's as possible as said player not being good enough to win it all
the proof is in the pudding and rings are the pudding.
put it this way, a guy has a driver's license, another guy doesn't. Sure the guy without the license COULD be a better driver, but who would you pick to drive your family around?
Bend over. I'll give ya some in' pudding.
no. not even close. when the spurs looked like they were down and out getting swept by phoenix, losing in the first round against the grizz, duncan didn't hook up with his buddies in the off season to build a super team. as great as i think lebron is, that's a sign of weakness.
shaq and kobe had a 3 peat. kareem and magic never did. how many people rank havelcik over larry bird all time?
Shaq and Kobe would have never 3peated in the 80s imo
It's difficult to appreciate Duncan now because he's fallen off so obviously. Though watching James try and figure it out on some nights is embarrassing. The perfection in the 80's spoiled "us." You just got to that plain and figured it would never end. Somebody would come along to replace Jordan and Bird, et al and that seamless way of performing. It didn't take long to settle in to that level of competence and forget the staggering and jolting of years past. Now we're back to it (and worse) and it difficult to retrain the mind to it. Like facing the loss of Breyer's Ice Cream. I still get a half gallon from time to time (they got it at the .99 cent store for the love of Christ) trying to recpature that moment when you'd pry the top off and take that bite and it would be close to orgiastic delights, damn close.
I wanna see lebron put up numbers at age 37/thread.
Well let's break it down:
Defense:
Both guys are otherworldly talents on the defensive end. LeBron is more versatile, while Timmy was arguably more impactful, due to his ability to guard the pick and roll and defend the rim at elite levels.
Edge: Wash
Offense:
It may sound strange to say, but both guys are underrated scorers thanks in part to their well-rounded games and unselfishness. In his prime, Duncan could have averaged close to 30 ppg, but played unselfishly within a team-oriented system. Same could be said of LeBron. Both of these guys are/were unguardable one-on-one, but had the wherewithal to know when to force the action and when to defer to teammates. Just compare Timmy's game 6 performance in the 2003 Finals to LeBron's 2012 Finals game 5 performance. They're eerily similar in the way that both guys dominated in Swiss army knife fashion.
Duncan will go down as one of the 3 greatest post players of all time (only McHale and Hakeem have arguments over him), while LeBron is like a lab-born love child of Jordan and Magic. Again, not much separating either guy here.
Edge: Wash...again.
Intangibles:
Both guys stepped up their games when it mattered most (playoffs), and both have produced consistently in the clutch. With that being said, Duncan gets the nod here due to his more consistent Finals performances and legendary leadership ability.
Edge: Duncan
Overall Edge: Duncan by a hair.
Objectively, Duncan has the edge in rings and Finals MVPs, while LeBron has the edge in regular season MVPs. Neither player has a DPOY, but both should have had one by now.
I'd hear out arguments for LeBron over Timmy, because it's definitely debatable, but imo Timmy gets the nod.
Lebron is far better on offense and Duncan is far better on defense, tbh..
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