Matt Bonner: +10 in 8 minutes

[ElNono]

Since Splitter's emergence and the addition of other bigs, Matty has been relegated to bench play and spot minutes against matchups that can't exploit his extremely limited game... this is a change Pop made last season, and was very welcome.

While Pop should get the blame for setting up Matty to fail in the past, he should also be recognized for finally realizing what are Matt's limits and using him accordingly.

[Interrohater]

I don't think you should judge any one player's defense on blocks and steals. If a player understands his rotations and can impede vision of the basket, then he's doing better than probably 50% of bigs out there, maybe more. There are very few elite shot blockers and even fewer bigs that get lots of steals. Matt Bonner is not either one of those. He is what he is; a decent rotational defender and a great 3 point shooter.

Also, he's getting less than 13 minutes a game, what do you people want, ffs.

[playbonner15]

Make Bonner ashy as and we wont even have this discussion

[Raven]

advanced stats are not to be considered for players playing less than 30mpg imho..

[wildbill2u]

I took a Spurs trivia quiz the other day. One question was who was the Spur with the highest rated FG average in 1999-2000 (year from memory). Choices were Duncan, Manu and Mahinmi. Answer was Mahinmi. Why do I cite this>

Statistics over a short time can be an anomaly and mislead. However, over a long period of time the anomalies will even out and the true value of the data will be revealed. People who dismiss the steady and persistent positive 'per' +/- statistics of Bonner over a long period of time and lots of games are simply not looking at his overall play which is clearly positive given his role.

Every player on that roster has a role and Pop plays them based on how well they fulfill that role. I've never heard a Spur player complain that Pop plays favorites on how many minutes they get. Sometimes Pop (like any coach) will pull a player if he isn't performing up to expectations in a particular game--and they can play their way onto the bench and further off the rotation if their play warrants it. Players love that kind of coach because they believe he will be fair in giving them minutes because of their actual production--except for Jax--and not for some reputation gained earlier in their career.

So, back to Bonner. He's a valuable player on the roster for what he does and he's willing to accept his current role without any ing which is important for team chemistry. Both the Coaches and the players appreciate him. Live with it.

[cd021]

What opposing big does Matt guard? How do you guard a big by being a traffic cone? How many blocks a game does Matt record? How many steals?

We've seen Bonner get destroyed in situations where he's being asked to defend bigs. These numbers are a product of careful manipulation of player minutes and matchups.

Bull .

This must clearly a conspiracy by the good people at NBA.com/stats

these numbers are fairly consistent for several seasons (his post defense), it isn't some manipulation. It really annoys me when someone has an opposing view and then attacks the credibility of an advanced stat on the merit that it doesn't gel with their opinion which, may be wrong to begin with. This is exactly what "BAAM" does.

He defended Randolph and Howard as well as anyone. Randolph looked frustrated in the WCF. This really goes without saying in today's NBA, which shocks me that I actually have to but defense isn't just measured in blocks and steals. As I mentioned before, there aren't a ton of great post players in the league. That being said Bonner, for 10 minutes can step in a play solid post defense.

Offensively, the Spurs generally are difficult to stop when he is on the floor, whether he is hitting 3's or not. Teams have to expect he will hit a 3 if left open.

The Spurs actually exclusively had Bonner set screens for Parker, in hopes of exploiting Randolph's defense. Forcing him to step out 24 feet on Bonner after the roll or have to keep Parker in front of him.

I also mentioned that he does struggle with teams with athletic big men (like Denver) he gets a bad rap on that side of the ball. Is he better defensively than Duncan, Splitter, or Diaw? of course not. But he can be effective.

[cd021]

advanced stats are not to be considered for players playing less than 30mpg imho..

What about Duncan. He played 30.1 mpg so his 95 defensive rating counts because he was on the floor an extra 10 minutes at the end of the seasoned. It seems arbitrary to me. Why not a player who plays more than 20 mpg?

[DMC]

Bull .

This must clearly a conspiracy by the good people at NBA.com/stats

these numbers are fairly consistent for several seasons (his post defense), it isn't some manipulation. It really annoys me when someone has an opposing view and then attacks the credibility of an advanced stat on the merit that it doesn't gel with their opinion which, may be wrong to begin with. This is exactly what "BAAM" does.

He defended Randolph and Howard as well as anyone. Randolph looked frustrated in the WCF. This really goes without saying in today's NBA, which shocks me that I actually have to but defense isn't just measured in blocks and steals. As I mentioned before, there aren't a ton of great post players in the league. That being said Bonner, for 10 minutes can step in a play solid post defense.

Offensively, the Spurs generally are difficult to stop when he is on the floor, whether he is hitting 3's or not. Teams have to expect he will hit a 3 if left open.

The Spurs actually exclusively had Bonner set screens for Parker, in hopes of exploiting Randolph's defense. Forcing him to step out 24 feet on Bonner after the roll or have to keep Parker in front of him.

I also mentioned that he does struggle with teams with athletic big men (like Denver) he gets a bad rap on that side of the ball. Is he better defensively than Duncan, Splitter, or Diaw? of course not. But he can be effective.

So then the Spurs should start Matt Bonner at center and have him guard the best bigs on other teams.

That's what you're saying when you disagreed with my assertion "careful manipulation of player minutes and matchups".

If Bonner was a defensive asset, we'd know. It wouldn't need to be pointed out to people using advanced statistics.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Bonner has the lower body strength to keep guys out of the post. It's why he did so well against Randolph. Dude is strong which should be obvious from looking at him.

His issue is lateral quickness. He cannot chase on the perimeter particularly well, is slow getting over on rotations --although his awareness helps,-- and fares poorly against the dribble.

Now sure a guy like one of the Gasol brothers can just shoot over him but they aren't going to O'Neal-on-Dudley him either.

[cd021]

So then the Spurs should start Matt Bonner at center and have him guard the best bigs on other teams.

That's what you're saying when you disagreed with my assertion "careful manipulation of player minutes and matchups".

If Bonner was a defensive asset, we'd know. It wouldn't need to be pointed out to people using advanced statistics.

I said Duncan, Splitter and Diaw were better defenders. Thats why he doesn't start. That doesn't make him a bad player or defender, solely because he doesn't start. I also said that he is a very good player to throw in for 10 minutes.

Bonner showed it in the post season against teams with good post players (Memphis & L.A. Lakers). He has shown the ability to defend the post for sometime now. Its not like the advanced stat contradicts what anyone ,who actually watches him, sees.

[cd021]

Bonner has the lower body strength to keep guys out of the post. It's why he did so well against Randolph. Dude is strong which should be obvious from looking at him.

His issue is lateral quickness. He cannot chase on the perimeter particularly well, is slow getting over on rotations --although his awareness helps,-- and fares poorly against the dribble.

Now sure a guy like one of the Gasol brothers can just shoot over him but they aren't going to O'Neal-on-Dudley him either.

I agree. Really half the battle in the NBA is being in the right position, as a post player he does that.

[DMC]

I said Duncan, Splitter and Diaw were better defenders. Thats why he doesn't start. That doesn't make him a bad player or defender, solely because he doesn't start. I also said that he is a very good player to throw in for 10 minutes.

Bonner showed it in the post season against teams with good post players (Memphis & L.A. Lakers). He has shown the ability to defend the post for sometime now. Its not like the advanced stat contradicts what anyone ,who actually watches him, sees.

Bonner is a below average defender. Since you don't quantify "bad" I have no idea how to even address that.

[Drom John]

One thing that helps Bonner's +/- somewhat is that Matt often comes in for 1 possession or 2 of 3 possessions at the end of quarters. It's hard to get minus numbers when the other team doesn't have the ball.

[Obstructed_View]

Advanced stats say the exact opposite. He actually defends the post quite well. The thing is, there aren't very many post threats in the league nowadays. He does struggle against athletic front lines, though.

I'm not sure how advanced stats can account for the Spurs' help defense. Matt Bonner doesn't have an "opposing player" because he's not locked up on one guy. When teams isolate on him, the Spurs throw help defenders or pull Bonner out of the game. Must be nice to benefit from "advanced stats" because Tim Duncan is guarding his guy and half of your guy at the same time.

[Obstructed_View]

It's why he did so well against Randolph.

You must be talking about the broke down Randolph that laid an egg against the Spurs last year. Two years earlier Randolph and everyone else in a Memphis uniform took turns victimizing Bonner in the post.

[td4mvp2k]

You must be talking about the broke down Randolph that laid an egg against the Spurs last year. Two years earlier Randolph and everyone else in a Memphis uniform took turns victimizing Bonner in the post.

+1

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You must be talking about the broke down Randolph that laid an egg against the Spurs last year. Two years earlier Randolph and everyone else in a Memphis uniform took turns victimizing Bonner in the post.

Sorry but his fronting and 3 quarters coverage on Randolph was key. You are right about 2011 but everyone including one of the best post defenders in history in Duncan was getting owned that year. By your logic he cannot cover either.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not sure how advanced stats can account for the Spurs' help defense. Matt Bonner doesn't have an "opposing player" because he's not locked up on one guy. When teams isolate on him, the Spurs throw help defenders or pull Bonner out of the game. Must be nice to benefit from "advanced stats" because Tim Duncan is guarding his guy and half of your guy at the same time.

Nice story. Too bad its bull . Give an example of a game in the last two years were opposing teams were feeding the ball against Bonner in the post, him getting owned, and then yanked according to your narrative.

[Obstructed_View]

Sorry but his fronting and 3 quarters coverage on Randolph was key. You are right about 2011 but everyone including one of the best post defenders in history in Duncan was getting owned that year. By your logic he cannot cover either.

Uh, no. Duncan wasn't the one being scored on at will. Hill and Parker were beyond terrible, but everyone on the front line was scoring on Bonner because he was getting the minutes that should have gone to Splitter.

[playbonner15]

ST arguing about the team's 6th big

[cd021]

You must be talking about the broke down Randolph that laid an egg against the Spurs last year. Two years earlier Randolph and everyone else in a Memphis uniform took turns victimizing Bonner in the post.

Randolph had an great postseason in 2011. That doesn't mean that when he didn't play up to that he was "broken down".

Regular Season P.E.R
10-11-21.8
11-12-17.9
12-13-17.9
13-14-16.4

Post season P.E.R
'10-11-22.0
11-12-15.0
12-13-17.7

Bonner get victimized this time around.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Uh, no. Duncan wasn't the one being scored on at will. Hill and Parker were beyond terrible, but everyone on the front line was scoring on Bonner because he was getting the minutes that should have gone to Splitter.

Nice, now you are characterizing cir stances as 'should' and the like. More great stories! Now why don't you villianize someone..... Wait! who was it that didn't start Splitter? YES!!!! POP = VILLAIN!!! This is shaping up to be a great story!

Duncan drew Gasol and yes Gasol was having his way for the most part especially defending Duncan. Hollins forced the matchup with his subs utions. Gasol ended up with 14 points on 10 shots for the series. Duncan was held under 13 ppg shooting 47% from the field. Pedestrian, tbh.

Interesting how your story left out McDyess but then again I didn't really mean it when I said it was a good story.

I am more than willing to admit that Bonner played very poorly in 2011 but dismissing his good play in 2013 is plain bias.

[cd021]

You understand that that '11 postseason was a 1 time deal, he hasn't played that well since then. Healthy or not.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You understand that that '11 postseason was a 1 time deal, he hasn't played that well since then. Healthy or not.

Sure, 2011 was clearly Randolph's peak.

[HI-FI]

don't feel like quoting a bunch of posts but good to see some Bonner respect on here.