Bah humbug. What a garbage game.
Here are my game thoughts: a rambling mish-mash of varied fever dreams, burdened by hazed memory and past grudges.
Spurs are in a lot of trouble this coming postseason, the amount of teams they have match-up problems with is all too worrying. I would pick Houston, Portland, and OKC over the Spurs in a 7 game series RIGHT NOW. They may not be, but the Spurs sure look outclassed. Even when the Spurs would get the lead down to 2 or 3, I always felt like the Rockets were in clear control and weren’t threatened.
It’s sad. The Spurs don’t just lose to good teams. They get wrecked. Can the good teams in the league pencil in a ‘W’ in future games against San Antonio? Hopefully the new year will bring fresh legs and renewed focus.
3 pt Defense Random Thought
Coming into tonight, the Spurs’ Opponents 3 pt% was middle of the pack, tied for 15th at 36.2%. But what troubles me, or rather, panics me, is how good teams get WIDE OPEN threes against the Spurs. Great looks. And because they’re good teams, their players can knock down those looks. In the Spurs 7 losses the teams shoot 43.7% from three. That 43.7% for a team would lead the league by a huge margin. The Spurs defensive strategy seems to be to dig down and just hope the open man misses. It could be my imagination, but I am sure that contrary to popular belief, the opponents don’t fluke their way into 3 pt makes, they get those buckets because the Spurs don’t contest them enough.
And if the argument to excuse that 3 pt shooting is that the Spurs defense is designed to minimize 3 pt attempts rather than deal with percentages, well, they’re failing. Those teams they lost to average altogether 23 attempts per game, against the Spurs they average 22.6 attempts. They are getting their looks and making more of them, a lot more, against the Spurs defense.
Spurs can still turn it up and squeeze the numbers down, but Parker turning into Neal makes it harder. The Spurs had a semi-blessed road in the playoffs last year. The Lakers couldn’t score, the Grizzlies couldn’t score from three. Spurs only had to play two teams that tested their 3 pt defense, and they did a good job against GS, who only shot 36.8% from 3 against the Spurs, and worse than their season avg. The Heat of course shot better than their season average, and hit 43.2%. Easy to do when guys like Gary Neal drift around and leave their men, both shoed and unshoed.
THE PLAYERS
Tim Duncan – 34 min, 11 pts (4-12), 14 reb, 5 ast, 6 blk, 0 to
Solid night except for bad shooting for Duncan, 1-7 outside the restricted area if I remember right. He had almost nothing on his jumper when that was what the defense was giving. Just have to hope that in the playoffs he’ll be delivering more. Everything else, hard to complain about. Assists off of offensive rebounds, a lot of defensive boards, he had a strip for a steal, a ton of blocks. He forced misses only to have teammates like Splitter blow the defensive rebound. Not moving on defense like he used to, but that’s not surprising. Tough match-up against Dwight Howard when it was his turn.
Tony Parker – 31 min, 6 pts (3-11), 3 reb, 4 ast, 2 to
Gary Neal may be elsewhere, but his spirit lives on in Tony Paker, particularly on defense. Parker has had such a down year that he doesn’t deserve an all-star appearance. I understand the conventional wisdom that as a top 4 team in the west as the Spurs will likely be, the Spurs will deserve at least one all-star. Well, they don’t. The team is good, but they don’t deserve an all-star. Parker played this game like he’s played all season, disappointing. Bad shooting, not just at the rim. And then passed up open twos he would normally take and make I think.
He was thoroughly outplayed by Lin. Yes, he was the one who got Manu those open looks at the start of the game, and that’s great. But he played so … ugh, that his National Team Flu is something to worry about.
Tiago Splitter – 23 min, 6 pts (2-7), 4 reb, 1 ast, 2 blk, 0 to
1st half: Played like the stereotype of Soft Tiago. He gave up offensive rebounds way too easy. I don’t care if he’s getting fouled repeatedly that aren’t called by the refs, he has to defensive rebound, ESPECIALLY against a team that ONLY plays small. Now I have long defended Tiago in the past, his miscues or faults have been routinely exaggerated by the fans whose perceptions of Splitter were shaped by Pop crapping all over him his rookie year. But he played poorly. Couldn’t guard Howard, couldn’t guard Jones. Couldn’t rebound. Couldn’t score.
2nd half: Even his dunks were delicate. Contested at the rim better, played a little tougher, but still a poor night. Come the fourth quarter he went back to folding. Good lord, one of Tiago’s worst games. I think what’s happening now is that it all has gotten into his head and Splitter is now forcing ‘being tough’ and ‘finishing strong’ and it’s killing his touch around the basket. That last dunk attempt blocked by Jones … that was a play that last year Splitter would have just laid it off the glass on the opposite side for an easy lay in. Come on, be better Tiago.
Kawhi Leonard – 29 min, 13 pts (6-14), 7 reb, 2 to
1st half: Really struggled tonight. It’s a part of the growth process, but that doesn’t make it easier to watch. Getting blocked by Harden on that 1st quarter play was shocking to me. 1-8 in the half. Some of that was him being too aggressive; not getting play calls incentivizes him to make hyperaggresive plays exacerbated by his poor shooting from 3 this season. His only score in the 1st half was the typical way he scores a sizable portion of his points on the season: self-generated. Grabbing the rebound (or steal/loose ball) and keeping it to drive and score. Even open on a fast break Parker wouldn’t give the ball up and kept it for the score, so is it any wonder Leonard tries to do too much when he gets the ball in a spot up and forces up a miss?
2nd half: He was given the ball in non-spot ups a little more. And it turned out mostly well. Not how he got the ball in the first half of just getting it on the kick out, but getting the ball and asked to go to work. Given the ball in the post. Handling in a pick-and-roll. Even when he went at Harden and couldn’t get a shot off, it resulted in a good look for Parker (who missed). He also self-generated, such as grabbing the rebound and taking it in for an AND-1 at the 4:47 mark. Sure, he had a couple of turnovers, but he has to have the ball like that to learn and get better. And what happened after those good sequences by Leonard? Dat freeze-out.
His 3rd quarter should be the latest evidence that he needs the ball more, and not just spotting up. Whether Pop and company appreciate that remains to seen. One pet peeve of mine is when posters say that Leonard has to be more aggressive and make something happen, that he shares a big part of the blame for not doing more this year. That only serves to remind me of the story Sean Elliott told about John Lucas that illustrated how clueless Lucas the cheerleader was: after a scoreless first half where he never had opportunities in the halfcourt, Lucas scolded Elliott, telling him that he “needed to heat up”. Elliott’s response: “I need the ball first”. Angered, Lucas then benched Elliott or otherwise froze him out on purpose out of pettiness instead of addressing the issue at hand. Same with Leonard. He needs the ball to do work with the ball. Offensive rebounds and keeping defensive rebounds aren’t enough. Getting the ball as a spot up for a three on a kick-out isn’t enough. So often he never even touches the ball in a possession, or is only used to move it from side to side. Don’t blame him for not doing anything with the ball when he never gets the ball.
Marco Belinelli – 22 min, 9 pts (4-8), 2 reb, 2 ast, 1 to
Man, I dislike Marco as a starter. He plays so well with Ginobili on offense and isn’t exposed as much on defense against reserves. Him trying to stay with Parsons is a bad idea. Marco’s usefulness as a reserve was on display in the 2nd quarter when the reserves cut the lead. Marco spent the first 5 minutes of the second quarter matched up against Francisco Garcia and Omri Casspi, and was able to score 6 of his 9 total points with jumpers and a drive, wasn’t a liability on defense, and was the defender on the inbounding turnover.
Manu Ginobili – 25 min, 22 pts (8-17), 3 reb, 1 ast, 2 to
Manu had a good game, a very good game. Scored well. Even when he had a bad moment or two, he wasn’t 2013 Finals bad. Only two turnovers and 22 points on 17 shots? That’s good Manu. And only one live ball turnover (that resulted in a fastbreak score) but even that was just as much Green’s fault as Manu’s, if not more. Not so hot on defense, which is normal for Manu these days.
Danny Green – 16 min, 6 pts (1-4), 1 reb, 2 to
Didn’t do anything well, hesitated on shots, loose with the ball, coughed up bricks. Never been a big fan of Green and his overrated defense. His down play this season has sparked some vocal discontent with him amongst Spurs fans (still shooting 41% from 3, but that’s down from 42.9 last year and his TS% is down from 60 to 56.7). But I think he should still start as long as he’s here. I don’t mind Pop giving him the bench treatment as method to shock him into better play once he’s back as a starter … but he has to get back to starting.
Boris Diaw – 20 min, 4 pts (2-5), 5 reb, 2 ast, 0 to
Boris was good even though he didn’t score much. I don’t feel like complaining.
Patty Mills – 17 min, 9 pts (3-6), 1 reb, 1 ast, 0 to
Patty did his regular season Patty schtick. Sure, he was aggressive and hit some shots. And was part of the bench unit that decided to put up a fight.
But here’s my deal with Patty Mills: I think he’s a regular season fraud. He can do his pestering full court routine in the regular season against scrub teams that don’t give a damn, but he will get exposed big time in the playoffs. He’s so light and small that he will get shrugged off by everyone he tries to check, and the looser called playoff physicality will keep him on his ass. I have zero doubt that Pop will have to resort to Joseph or Nando in the playoffs when Mills falls apart.
Corey Joseph – 6 min, 4 pts, 1-2, 1 reb, 2 ast, 0 to
Despite him scoring that basket, I’m not looking forward to another year of Joseph soaking up a roster spot and above-minimum salary.
Matt Bonner – 6 min, 4 pts (2-3), 2 reb, 0 to
I would love to kill Bonner for that turnover, but I blame him and Tony equally. , 2-3 with 2 boards and a steal in 6 minutes? Not bad.
Jeff Ayres – 8 min, 2 pts (0-1), 2 reb, 0 to
Ayres wasn’t as bad as he usually is, so I guess that’s a kind of praise. Late on a pair of Casspi buckets I guess, but Ayres gonna Ayres.
Pop
I can’t fault Pop too much for tonight’s loss. Sure, he could have put Leonard on Parsons and had the other mooks get burned by Harden. But after seeing how Parker did what he did, how Duncan was missing his shots, and how Splitter was a disaster, that was enough to seal the deal on this game for me. He no doubt got into Splitter at the half, and it worked for a little while. But what else was there? Maybe Bonner should have been more in the game plan, maybe put Belinelli back on the bench for Green, but tonight was more a product of match-up problems and the fatigue/declining? talent of the Spurs than anything Pop did wrong.
In the big picture, I hope Pop puts the gametime in to see what he has in Malcolm Thomas, because the rest of the known roster isn’t good enough so far this season against the real teams. Regular season wins against bad/average teams will come easy to a team that executes, but the regular season is like Las Vegas, what happens there stays there. Thomas is probably a scrub, but better to know than guess. Could he have matched up with Jones? Could he match up in the future with Ibaka or Collison? Could he match up against whatever scrub plays off the bench for Portland? Will we ever know for sure?
The Rockets
HARDEN
Harden came in on a gimpy ankle, and the Spurs STILL couldn’t guard him. Not Leonard, not Green, nobody. He’s why the Spurs lost to OKC in 2012, and he’s why the Spurs will probably lose to the Rockets if they meet in the playoffs. Harden is a closer. Do the Spurs even have one this season?
PARSONS
RC took ‘leadership’ Corey Joseph over him. Imagine Kawhi and Parsons as a wing combo of the future … now imagine Corey Joseph playing big minutes for Zalgiris in about two years, because that’s where he’ll be. No doubt Parsons wouldn’t be the player is he is today if he had been a Spur the whole time.
Yes, I’m bitter over little things. I shouldn't get so worked up over that pick (or not picking Jimmy Butler), but it is what it is.
Bah humbug!
Uh oh, looks like the Ghost of Pop’s Christmas Past is coming to get me. Carl Herrera, stay away! No! I don’t care if Pop thought you were a great signing to pair with Robinson! Get away! NOOoooooooooo
The funny thing about Harden is that he's really only a closer when he plays the spurs.
Against any other top team, he seems prone to chokery and poor play when the pressure is on. I'll never forget the 2012 finals and the olympics that came right after. He was destroyed in that finals after looking like the second coming of basketball jesus against the spurs in the WCF. What is it about the spurs that makes Harden harden but against other teams become flaccid?
you're probably right, he might be only a closer against the Spurs.
why, i don't know.
Many players are closer against spurs....because they think spurs are the best, so they stay focused...as others said, it is a compliment...however, if every team brings their best against the spurs, it means more wear and tear...
Solid thoughts
Seems like no matter what he does, Mills is always denigrated around here. I think he's going to surprise some folks come playoff time.
Lost it in the first 6mins when they dropped 27 on us
Harden had less to none impact in the first quarter and in that quarter we lost the game ... just like in the first game against Houston absolutely no 3 point defense. Just too hard to come back from such a deficit against a good team.
i dunno what happened to the spurs 3 pt defense this season but it is worrisome
reminded me of how bad the spurs d was 3+ years ago
theyre certainly capable of defending it much better, they were also beyond bad at the end of the RG last year and were excellent in that department in the POs, so you just gotta hope that theyre holding back to some extent
but i wanted to see more grit from this team considering theyve already lost to this houston team AT HOME this season, the hardest the spurs played this season imo is vs the raptors (they werent fluid but they played with intensity, almost playoff level intensity)
Spurs 0-7 against against playoff teams.
Nope, Spurs are 7-7 against playoffs teams.
Typical BD - Doesn't let facts get in the way of a storyline.
Thanks
I think Spurs are helping too much on D and that's why opponents get all those open looks.
Thanks for the thoughts. I don't feel like watching that game, it will likely get me depressed.
It was like the perfect game for the negative objective. You could let speak your true nature without looking out of place.
Regarding Spurs defense in their losses, they have allowed more than 110 points in 6 of these 7 losses. So there is a true issue.
As you said one of the issue is 3 point defense: In losses Spurs are allowing 9.9 3's per game with a 43.7% FG%, while in wins, it's 6.6 at 34.2%
Another issue is defending midrange shots: In losses Spurs are allowing 12.0 midrange shots with a 47.7% FG%, while in wins it's 9.5 at 36.2%.
And I agree that it isn't some fluke complicate shots opponent are hitting. A stat that show it is that Spurs are allowing 24.0 assists in losses while they are are allowing 19.1 assists in wins. When you consider Spurs are allowing 5.3 more field goal in losses than in wins, it basically mean that all the extra shots made have been assisted.
Fact 1: the team sucks. I'm so sick of those tired excuses, shots not falling in, injuries, refs (lol), we're getting completely dominated by teams playing a lot better than we do. We're not winning a playoff series playing like that, that's for sure. Fact 2: we're capable of playing so much better. Energy and defense are still the main problems here.
There was better guy, drafted right after CoJo.
What bugs and frustrates me so far this year is every starter has regressed since last year. I consider Green the starter by the way.......
People keep talking about how everything fell into place last year to make the long run in the playoffs. THAT'S OFTEN WHAT HAPPENS TO A TEAM THAT MAKES/WINS THE FINALS. You have some luck along the way to get there. Sure, SA was lucky, but they also played at a high level during their four playoff series.
I don't know that the Spurs have the juice in the tank to make a long playoff run this year. The team is not playing confident basketball against the upper echelon WC teams. Houston did not even really break a sweat last night and generally pushed the Spurs around. The Rockets played with purpose and the Spurs did not. For the second time this year, the starters put the team in a hole 1st quarter that sealed their fate. Two 40 point defensive quarters in five days is also not acceptable.
Is it possible SA is to the point where their lack of athletic ability/explosiveness is too much to overcome when matched against the top teams who have the guys that can jump out of the gym? Maybe. Are they having hangover from last years disappointment at the end? It wouldn't surprise me.
The Spurs and their system can overcome the Toronto's of the world in 2013. I was fortunate enough see that game in person on Monday. It was fun to see Parker, Duncan, and Manu again in person.
I could look to the cup being half full with a very good record so far for SA. The Spurs will in all probability make the playoffs again and perhaps even have HCA in the first round.
However, players reach a point in their careers when they cannot dominate anymore. When three of your top four players are 31, 36, and 37 years old, it is a tall order to play at a consistently high level. Your top players have to make the end of game clutch plays, and I'm not seeing our older players doing that much lately. Duncan's shot is way messed up and too flat (jumpers and free throws). Parker is seemingly worn down right now. Manu has actually played better this year than last year.
Last night was frustrating and discouraging for me and I might be rambling a little bit, but remember this. Since 1997, the Spurs have won roughly 30 playoff series - I'm not even sure of the exact number. The Rockets have won one. I would not want to trade places with them.
Solid thoughts.
Are there any good news? Did the Spours learn something? Thats my question.
The biggest fact is that the Spurs dont have a superstar. A guy that can score 20 pts in a quarter. A guy that the other team is scared off, a guy that cant be guarded, a guy that shoots with an opponent in his face and still scores.
I dont know whats the problem with Kawhi, and honestly I dont care, is not my job to know or care. But whatever they team is doing, is not working. I still think Kawhi is a very good player, a solid starter.
I like Patty Mills a lot as a player - he is a big part of the strong bench play so far this year. I think he is one of the few players to have improved his level of play since last year. In fact, the bench play has been a major reason the Spurs have a good record so far.
re: 3pt %, did some quick math and...
Last year in losses, opponents shot 38.9% in the regular season.
Except, it didn't get better throughout the season. It actually ended worse the final 22 games of the regular season.
losses in games 1-20 - 33.8
losses in games 21-40 - 35.1
losses in games 41-60 - 32.7
losses in games 61-82 - 44.2
The Spurs caught a big break in the playoffs with their match-ups. The Lakers without Kobe were garbage in every way. Golden State the Spurs did well against. GS attempted their average number of threes and shot worse. Memphis only attempted 13.5 threes a game in the regular season at 34.5%, and in the playoffs shot 34.9% on 15.75 attempts. And in their wins the Heat shot 45.1%, with and without shoes.
When your highest draft pick in 17 years is 15th (Leonard), you are not getting any legit chances at superstar level players. Tony Parker was such an unusual cir stance in 2001 (and an absolute home run draft pick). Manu is kind of the same thing.
Lottery picks are how teams build winners for the most part. When you don't get them for as long as the Spurs have, you can't always keep pulling the rabbit out of the hat with low draft picks.
SA has historically not been able to go out and buy a quality free agent due to the high salaries commanded by our "Big 3" guys along with the financial constraints of a small market team. You know, the old "Built not Bought" thing. Houston, on the other hand, has recently bought not built in free agency (Howard, Lin, Asik, and of course Hardin). After a 16 year drought and being irrelevant, the Rockets now look to have put something good together.
What I've learned from the season so far is that Splitter, Leonard, and Green have to snap out of it. Duncan and Parker have to gather themselves, get well, and play better. The energy level must be higher at the start of games. I don't like the switch of Green and Marco B. in the starting lineup.
The Spurs are doing a good job piling up wins so they can get in the playoffs, which is difficult in the West. Better health, energy, and focus will be necessary in April come playoff time or it will be a short playoff season. I don't like the vibe I'm getting so far.
Last edited by Harry Callahan; 12-26-2013 at 08:40 AM.
I agree. I love Patty Mills' improved play this year.
Good takes and info Objective, its nice to see some decent analysis again on Spurstalk. At times it has been lacking so far this year.
The Spurs did catch some breaks last year, no doubt. However, in other recent seasons, they also caught some bad breaks (Manu's broken elbow/arm the last day of the 2010 regular season is a prime example).
To me the bottom line is this - our top players have been so good for so long, their level of play is perhaps taken for granted. There are no givens going forward. The Duncan era has been sooooooo long and productive, it is tough to see the current flaws and not get a little down/discouraged as it relates to the near and long term future of the Spurs.
However, you also have to recognize the almost machine like efficiency of San Antonio's play for as long as Tim Duncan has been stepping on the floor. No other NBA team has played at such a consistently high level for such a long time. Every other team has managed to have down seasons. Yes, even the hated Lakers with all their resources/advantages have sucked a few times (this year being one of them).
Last edited by Harry Callahan; 12-26-2013 at 08:39 AM.
Here it is. Too many soft interior players and not enough athleticism all around.
Unless Green is playing well consistently, and not only from behind the arc, you can't afford to have him and Bellineli on the outside guarding opposing two's and threes that can score. Their defensively inept because of their lack of quickness. In combination with Parker's D forget about it.
I think the athletic decline plays a part in not getting out to contest shots. Not this past game, but the other losses, , the other wins, , the last couple of years, Ginobili usually can't even make an attempt to get back to his man to contest a three point shot. Usually you'll see him with a pre-emptive sink to the lane for position to double or block out or ready to rotate in to cover for the bigs and then the pass gets to his man, and all Manu can do is stare or slump because he knows he can't even get out to contest. In his younger days, he could get down later and back out to contest. When he and Bowen were together in those days, the Spurs contested just about everything. Now, Manu can only look at people. , against the Rockets I was shocked to see him leap out and contest a three in the corner and sail by the shooter, it happened once if not twice, I was stunned.
Parker's doing it now to. Sink to the lane, oh snaps they passed to my man, "Oh, well. Back on offense."
Neal did it with pride. Neal's added twist was to slide over where there wasn't even an opposing player or reason and lose all sight of his man. Then act like he was contesting after the shot was already up.
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