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David Robinson was actually one of if not the leading scorer on one of those teams correct? I remember that.
In Hakeem Olajuwon's back pocket.
David Robinson was actually one of if not the leading scorer on one of those teams correct? I remember that.
Yep you are correct. He put in work on those teams.
ty attempt at a troll. Try harder. I knew David as a rookie, followed his game since he entered the league. I don't need Wiki to tell me what David Robinson has done.
Apparently you do, especially trying to downplay his world play accomplishments. I'll take a David Robinson Bronze Medal (two Golds aside) over a Tom Duncan Bronze Medal any day. To compare them is silly. To dismiss them even more so.
Whatever. He's not a top 10 all time player. He barely squeezed into the top 50.
Tim Duncan or D ROB? Tim is easily in my top ten or near it, D ROB is in the top 40 of all times to me but then again I have not went over names in a while. D ROB though is definitely top 50 all times to me, but Tim is way up there.
David. Tim is top 5 imo.
Oh okay! Great rating on Timmay I got him top 10 all times. I got D ROB top 50 but the ranking I am unsure of, definitely not near top ten.
I have a question: If DROB is not even close to top 10 then why does only Jordan have a better career WS/48?
Similarly, Why is DROB top 4 in PER for a career?
David Robinson in his prime was arguably THE BEST CENTER of all time. He had virtually no help until the 98 season, when he was 1/2 the player he used to be. You consider TD one of the greatest ever, but if he was stuck on some team (a la Garnett or ROBINSON) he wouldnt have any rings. David had no player that was even remotely comparable to having the skill of Parker or Ginobili on his team. TD had both. Im not taking away from TD because I feel that he is undoubtedly the best PF of all time, but anyone who has played sports knows that there is more to a player than his skills, its got a lot to do with system, confidence, and LUCK. Robinson was never Lucky enough to have 2 HOF'ers in their prime on his team while he was in his prime.
And without Dave there is no Tim. There is no Spurs dynasty. There is no "Spurs Way" culture. Dave is where it ALL started.
Plus, Tim isn't competing against the NBA of Robinson. We don't have Jordan, Ewing, Malone, Hakeem, etc. in this league of today.
David Robinson is the cornerstone of the Spurs dynasty. It all started with him. Period.
I think Robinson is a better two way player than Mo Malone. MM also as good as admitted that he would put shots off the bottom of the rim to get the rebound and putback.
Lew
Wilt
Hakeem
Shaq
David
Centers are valuable (if rare, tbh).
Top 15.
It is a stretch. The numbers you cite mean nothing. David is my favorite player of all time but I also realize that Robinson only lived up to about 75% of what he could have been. He did not have the drive like MJ and Kobe. He did not have the drive like Duncan who has aged way better than Robinson and has worked to have an all-around game that was not based on athleticism alone.
Period. This is 100% dead on and my response to him as well. Tim has that whole different level D Rob never had.
So it took Dave taking a season to get Tim. Great job Dave.
What do you mean the numbers I cite mean nothing? They do mean something and are extremely relevant in a conversation that is about an INDIVIDUAL not an INDIVIDUAL surrounded by a great team.
Dennis Rodman was the best rebounder I EVER saw. He didnt try for 1/2 his career. He could have been untouchable in total rebounds. Just because he didnt "live up" to his potential doesnt mean he wasnt the greatest rebounder I ever saw. It just means he wasnt passionate about the game or had other things that to him were more important. It may make me think he was a waste but it takes nothing against the fact that when he DID TRY HIS HARDEST he could out-rebound anyone at any time.
David was soft. He Had no mean streak. He shied away from the moment because he either played scared or didnt want it as bad as Malone/Hakeem/Shaq. But that didnt mean he wasnt better than those listed. He was, and the sad thing is, as you noted, he was better than those players WITHOUT THE DRIVE.
MJ had 4 all stars with him every time he won a ring. Kobe had similar situations. David Robinson had Vinny Del Negro, Rod Strickland, the best player he had on his team was a what 34 year old Terry mings? AND David STILL had better stats than anyone besides mike.
There will never be a 7 footer as athletic, as good of a shooter, and with the instincts of David Robinson. To say otherwise is ludicrous.
He was but Hakeem abused him so badly when David needed to prove he was up to the task..
Unfortunately 95 series killed his reputation and he will be a top 25-50 in most books between Dirk and KG, his true potential is much higher but never fulfilled.
To be fair replace him with Duncan and I don't think Duncan would have done any better in the era David played in with the coach/roster he had. There is Jordan and his stacked teams, prime Hakeem, prime Stockton/Malone. And Spurs did not have the front office it has today and Popovich. For players who "disappeared when it mattered", these tend to be players who carried their teams all season and in the end their body betrayed them and just didn't have enough left in the tank. A lot of it is actually not mental at all! Players eventually run out of gas if you ask them to play 40 minutes a night and put up monster numbers to compensate for weak roster!
Luck is a huge part of everyone's strength. What if LeBron did not have the perfect team waiting for him in Miami and stuck with Cavs for a few more years? He could have very very easily fell to Kevin Garnett tier (whom I believe, is not nearly as far off Duncan as their historical rankings suggest). What if Duncan played in a big market team for Phil Jackson? He could have been the perfect teammate for Kobe Bryant and easily won 6 les.
There is no what-if however. David was my favorite player despite his flaws. Same with Duncan who in all honesty, had a ton of problem with Shaq and Wallace Brothers and would have very easily been labelled soft if Big Shot Rob did not bail him out (same way Ray Allen saved LeBron's career). It is fate and sometimes there is nothing you can do about it. I would say peak David Robinson is EASILY as good as peak Tim Duncan, if not better.
Last edited by hitmantb; 01-12-2014 at 10:15 PM.
Duncan used to routinely light up LA in the playoffs when we lost even! He did not have a ton of trouble with Shaq and he even had some serious where he flat out dominated win or lose. He had some struggles in the 05 Finals but came through when it mattered and outscored and rebounded the BROTHERS combined in game one and two! Not too shabby at all. Duncan would not be considered as soft because when the game is on the line and so on he usually brings it! D ROB never had the love for the game or drive Duncan had to winning! D ROB is pure athleticism and a freak of nature, Tim relied on Fundamentals and just was a student of the game and worked hard while D ROB just had it naturally but never had the drive some have like Tim or Jordan etc.
I agree on the Tim and Kobe thing, 6 les is not far fetched at all. I don't know how Tim would have done in the MJ era but honestly MJ said a few out there and only a few could play in his era and TIM was one of them! I would say he would know something about that era to be able to say that and say Tims game could have succeeded in the real era where they could handcheck and played hard D etc. I agree D ROB did carry some teams though, he had no Manu or Tony out there and Elliott was traded away for a year or so and that was his closest thing to consistent help. D ROB was badass but as you said 95 did hurt his reputation and not having a ring until Tim came along did as well.
If DR had Tim his whole career that would have been a sight to see, they complimented eachother well.
So you use PER now for the all time greats? Are you serious? D ROB I love to death but he i snot a top center of all times. Hakeem and Shaq and Wilt are ahead of him. I agree he had little help out there but Elliott was not NO HELP at all, yes that guy who helped us win our first le as well! DROB was a freak of nature and athletic beyond belief, did not have the fundamentals Tim had though nor the will or drive to win that few have! He never had that passion for the game to just take over a series or game when most were down and just carry the team (37 year old Tim last year in game 6 putting up 31 and 17 to try and will them to win! D ROB could not do that near that age). I don't hear anyone say D ROB is the best Center of all times.
I agree Parker and Ginobili have helped no doubt! I would love for those two as teammates and I surely think D ROB would have too. There is more to a player than SKILLS YES! THE drive, the will and the grit to carry a team like Duncan did in 03 for D ROB to get that last ring! He has that drive that few have and you can see it when he plays the game, takes losses harder than most I have seen like game 6 last year and other playoff losses, you hardly see that passion out of a player unless they are an all time legend. I agree D ROB did not have TWO HOF's on his side that part is true. I do not have D ROB in the top 20 all times though! He is between 25 and 50 on my list and most will agree there. 95 really tarnished him believe it or not, some never looked at him the same again whether it's rightfully so or justified or not.
I have love for D ROB though and he saved the franchise IMO, forever a huge fan. I won't look at PER though and say he is only behind Jordan or near that on all time ranks.
In the playoffs, yes, but regular season Robinson was 30-12 against The Dream. Their stats were almost identical.
Regular Season
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Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS David Robinson 42 30 12 42 37.7 7.0 14.3 .488 0.1 0.1 .600 5.5 7.7 .717 3.3 7.9 11.2 2.9 2.2 3.3 3.0 3.4 19.6 Hakeem Olajuwon 42 12 30 41 37.7 8.8 20.0 .441 0.0 0.1 .167 4.2 5.4 .768 3.4 7.8 11.2 2.8 1.9 3.4 2.9 4.0 21.9
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...1&p2=onealsh01
The difference is Spurs had David Robinson guarding Shaq plus significant double teams, and Lakers put scrubs on Duncan and just worked him one-on-one. Shaq's impact on the game was noticeably bigger until 2003 when Duncan finally broke out. In 4th quarter when Shaq guarded Duncan, he pretty much shut Duncan down, by then fatigue comes in and without speed advantage Duncan has no way of dealing with Shaq's brute strength. Kobe rains jumpers, Duncan misses a couple and Lakers won. This is why I felt 1999 Spurs was the strongest of them all with David at his best.
Back on topic, there is no way Duncan would have done anything with David's pre-1998 coach/roster, but there is no what if's in history.
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