How do you guys feel about the student loan situation?

[Thebesteva]

I just want your guys opinion, not bringing any personal stuff. I'm just curious, as an MD I see student loans increasing and wages decreasing. More and more educated individuals are chosing to work 9-5 than to pursue an education because it costs too much to become anything now a days. The financial gain just isn't there anymore.

For example, a veterinary student has to pay $250-300k to become a veterinarian on an average and make $60 k a year.
Loans continue to increase, and more and more people chose to stray away from a field in medicine.

Do you guys feel this is wrong? It seems the US is the only country doing this, or is there a logical reason behind why the US does this because I can't see it.

[boutons_deux]

Just another way: America is ed and un able.

The cost of college means that only the rich can afford college, worsening inequality.

The Repug push for austerity, like cutting Pell grants, makes it even worse. Fits into their general, obvious strategy as the party of the wealthy: Repugs protect/enrich the 1%, screw the 99%

"Keller is one of the estimated 100,000 students in the U.S. who were affected by Pell Grant cuts after Congress reduced eligibility for the grant in 2011. Under the new guidelines, students are only eligible for 12 semesters of Pell aid as opposed to the original 18."

http://dailyemerald.com/2013/03/25/c...come-students/

At the same time, colleges are preferring students who can pay their own way, need no financing from the school or govt.

[boutons_deux]

Upward Mobility No Tougher In U.S. Than Two Decades Ago


A new study finds that contrary to widespread belief, it's no harder to climb the economic ladder in the United States today than it was 20 years ago.


But the study did find that moving up that ladder is still a lot more difficult in the U.S. than in other developed countries.

The bad news is that growing income inequality has made the gap between income levels much wider than in the past, Autor says.

A person who's born at the bottom and stays there is further behind than ever before.

"The costs of immobility have risen, because the lifetime difference in earnings now between someone born at the bottom quartile versus top quartile is much, much greater than it used to be,"

It said economic mobility in the United States remains behind that of other wealthy countries. An American born at the bottom has about an 8 percent chance of rising to the top, it found; the odds are twice that in Denmark. ( heavily socialized, HEAVILY taxed Denmark is the land of opportunity )

the sad fact is that it's always been very hard in the United States relative to other countries

many parts of the Southeast and the Rust Belt look more like the developing world. ( aka RED states, right-to-work-for-less, and stay that way )

there's a strong correlation between advancement and certain kinds of social factors: the quality of schools, the degree of racial segregation, and whether you grew up in a two-parent household.

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/23/265356...o?sc=17&f=1001

[CosmicCowboy]

Part of the problem is all the crap you are required to take to get a degree. My degree required 146 hours and at least half of it was bull I didn't want or need. Fortunately I placed out of 28 hours coming out of high school honors classed but it was still infuriating having to pay for and waste time on all that unnecessary stuff. When I see Boutons ing about what doctors make I just shake my head...It takes 10 years of their life and several hundred thousand dollars to get that MD with brutal classes and internships and they can't even start earning money until they are in their 30's. If they want to start their own private practice it involves borrowing several hundred thousand more. most of them are middle aged by the time they get all their loans paid back. Dudes deserve to get paid. That being said, I see kids all the time living on their student loans, giving minimum effort to actually learning anything worthwhile and going for bull degrees just because it's easy and gives them all the time they want to party.. then they finally get out of school or quit after 6 or 8 years and because there are no jobs out there for them and whine about having to pay back all that money they borrowed to party and chase pussy. them. I have absolutely no sympathy for them.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Part of the problem is all the crap you are required to take to get a degree. My degree required 146 hours and at least half of it was bull I didn't want or need. Fortunately I placed out of 28 hours coming out of high school honors classed but it was still infuriating having to pay for and waste time on all that unnecessary stuff. When I see Boutons ing about what doctors make I just shake my head...It takes 10 years of their life and several hundred thousand dollars to get that MD with brutal classes and internships and they can't even start earning money until they are in their 30's. If they want to start their own private practice it involves borrowing several hundred thousand more. most of them are middle aged by the time they get all their loans paid back. Dudes deserve to get paid. That being said, I see kids all the time living on their student loans, giving minimum effort to actually learning anything worthwhile and going for bull degrees just because it's easy and gives them all the time they want to party.. then they finally get out of school or quit after 6 or 8 years and because there are no jobs out there for them and whine about having to pay back all that money they borrowed to party and chase pussy. them. I have absolutely no sympathy for them.

u will never make up that money quick to pay ur student loan, quickest way is to graduate open up ur GP and start rorting the system with fake biling, why go work in a hospital and ,

[TDMVPDPOY]

just look at the many unqualified doctors on ur corner block street dealing drugs...they make more then ur avg doctor

[boutons_deux]

Part of the problem is all the crap you are required to take to get a degree. My degree required 146 hours and at least half of it was bull I didn't want or need. Fortunately I placed out of 28 hours coming out of high school honors classed but it was still infuriating having to pay for and waste time on all that unnecessary stuff. When I see Boutons ing about what doctors make I just shake my head...It takes 10 years of their life and several hundred thousand dollars to get that MD with brutal classes and internships and they can't even start earning money until they are in their 30's. If they want to start their own private practice it involves borrowing several hundred thousand more. most of them are middle aged by the time they get all their loans paid back. Dudes deserve to get paid. That being said, I see kids all the time living on their student loans, giving minimum effort to actually learning anything worthwhile and going for bull degrees just because it's easy and gives them all the time they want to party.. then they finally get out of school or quit after 6 or 8 years and because there are no jobs out there for them and whine about having to pay back all that money they borrowed to party and chase pussy. them. I have absolutely no sympathy for them.

why the go to college? just take CC's philistine advice and go straight to voc/trade school.

don't screw around with with useless history, english, philosophy, literature, etc voc/trade school is all you need be a dumbed-down, illiterate, uneducated manual worker, wage slave

CC's anecdotes obviously represent 100% of students on college loans, like St Ronnie WelFare Queens in Cadillacs typify (black) people on public assistance.

There's no ing reason for mecial interns to put in 80+ hours/week. they don't learn and make LOTS of errors at that level of fatigue. 80+ hours/week trains them for nothing they will do as doctors. They should go be apprentices in primary care or walk-in clinics

The expense and length of medical training is the problem. Rather than have citizens pay exorbitant medical bills FOREVER so patient-flipping, greedy over-charging docs and greedy for-profit insurers can suck America's wealth by $1T+ per year, why not have taxpayers fund medical training directly, in return for docs, nurses committing to x years of salaried service in public hospitals and clinics?

Also, there's an INTENDED scarcity of medical education places due to the medical profession restricting the number of students to well below demand, which helps drive up the doctor's exorbitant compensation.

[baseline bum]

Part of the problem is all the crap you are required to take to get a degree. My degree required 146 hours and at least half of it was bull I didn't want or need. Fortunately I placed out of 28 hours coming out of high school honors classed but it was still infuriating having to pay for and waste time on all that unnecessary stuff.

It's maddening how many garbage classes you have to take in American universities. So much better if it was like Euro schools where you take your major and a few supporting classes instead of jerking off in literature, history, foreign language, and all other kinds of similar crap that postpone your graduation and force you to get into even more debt with no real gain in employment skills. That crap is what high school is for.

[boutons_deux]

Study Debunks Classic Argument About Low-Wage Workers


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4653020.html

[boutons_deux]

“The outstanding faults of the economic society in which we live are its failure to provide for full employment and its arbitrary and inequitable distribution of wealth and incomes.”

-- J M Keynes, 1936
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/24/op...f=opinion&_r=1

[The Reckoning]

the problem is we have this mindset that everyone should go to college. i wish i had just learned a trade instead and maaaaybe go to college later on part time if i became an entrepreneur or something.

[The Reckoning]

u will never make up that money quick to pay ur student loan, quickest way is to graduate open up ur GP and start rorting the system with fake biling, why go work in a hospital and ,

stfu aussies get interest free loans so you can be career students if you want. then the gov. does all the financing for you and just takes a payment out of your checks once you start working.

[The Reckoning]

It's maddening how many garbage classes you have to take in American universities. So much better if it was like Euro schools where you take your major and a few supporting classes instead of jerking off in literature, history, foreign language, and all other kinds of similar crap that postpone your graduation and force you to get into even more debt with no real gain in employment skills. That crap is what high school is for.

most kids don't know their majors until junior year though. in europe you apply directly into the program and not necessarily the uni, so if you transfer programs you have to start all over.

[boutons_deux]

the problem is we have this mindset that everyone should go to college. i wish i had just learned a trade instead and maaaaybe go to college later on part time if i became an entrepreneur or something.

for decades, college grads earned Ms more over their working years than HS grads or dropouts. Not sure if that will continue now the VRWC's globalization and free trade scams have destroyed Ms of good paying US jobs.

[baseline bum]

most kids don't know their majors until junior year though. in europe you apply directly into the program and not necessarily the uni, so if you transfer programs you have to start all over.

So there you only have worthless courses if you switch majors, whereas here you take them 100% of the time.

[angrydude]

The dirty secret is you're never going to get rich if you do what everyone else does. When everyone goes to college it loses its value.

Only 3 ways to get rich in America
1. inherit it
2. hit the stock market lottery
3. start a lucrative business

[The Reckoning]

for decades, college grads earned Ms more over their working years than HS grads or dropouts. Not sure if that will continue now the VRWC's globalization and free trade scams have destroyed Ms of good paying US jobs.

i'd bet that non college grads with a solid trade skill make more than your average college graduate.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

the problem is we have this mindset that everyone should go to college. i wish i had just learned a trade instead and maaaaybe go to college later on part time if i became an entrepreneur or something.

This is such a crock of . America's college attendance rate is lower than any other modern country in the world.

[baseline bum]

, wrong thread s

[The Reckoning]

This is such a crock of . America's college attendance rate is lower than any other modern country in the world.

lol wut where did you get that from?

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.TER.ENRR

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/...1W?display=map

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So according that graph 95% of Americans went to/go to college?

I call bull

[The Reckoning]

tertiary education means any kind of education that is beyond high school. vocational schools are probably included.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I always love these trade school nuthuggers.

"You'd be much better off going to a for profit trade school like Devry!"

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

tertiary education means any kind of education that is beyond high school. vocational schools are probably included.

So your graph has nothing to do with what I said then. Gotcha.

Maybe you should have gone to a trade school about graphs.

[The Reckoning]

So your graph has nothing to do with what I said then. Gotcha.

Maybe you should have gone to a trade school about graphs.

it does. it's meant as a comparison to all the schools in europe whose tertiary levels are lower than the US even with that factored in.


i'll make do with my two undergraduate degrees and masters degree, thanks.