How do you guys feel about the student loan situation?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

it does. it's meant as a comparison to all the schools in europe whose tertiary levels are lower than the US even with that factored in.


i'll make do with my two undergraduate degrees and masters degree, thanks.

No, it doesn't. I said college, I didn't say any kind of education beyond high school.

I already knew American trade school produced the finest plumbers in the world

[Jacob1983]

America definitely has the mentality of "you have to go to college and if you don't, you're a loser". There is nothing wrong with picking up a trade or skill at a trade school. Plumbers, electricians, mechanics, and hair stylists can make a lot of money.

[boutons_deux]

America definitely has the mentality of "you have to go to college and if you don't, you're a loser". There is nothing wrong with picking up a trade or skill at a trade school. Plumbers, electricians, mechanics, and hair stylists can make a lot of money.

hairdresser, no.

http://www1.salary.com/hairdresser-Salary.html

auto mechanic, not too bad if you're good and "level III", but the ceiling is low.

http://www1.salary.com/Automotive-Me...II-Salary.html

[ElNono]

It's maddening how many garbage classes you have to take in American universities. So much better if it was like Euro schools where you take your major and a few supporting classes instead of jerking off in literature, history, foreign language, and all other kinds of similar crap that postpone your graduation and force you to get into even more debt with no real gain in employment skills. That crap is what high school is for.

Not only that, they're mostly public colleges and tuition is cheap as ... Germany, Italy, France, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands... all have universities in the top 100 and in all cases yearly tuition is under $1000...

[baseline bum]

Not only that, they're mostly public colleges and tuition is cheap as ... Germany, Italy, France, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands... all have universities in the top 100 and in all cases yearly tuition is under $1000...

And the education is better. Blows me away when I talk to students in France who do real analysis freshman year, and measure theory and functional analysis second year. Measure theory+Lebesgue integration is usually done senior year or first year grad school in the US and functional analysis is almost always a graduate course.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And the education is better. Blows me away when I talk to students in France who do real analysis freshman year, and measure theory and functional analysis second year. Measure theory+Lebesgue integration is usually done senior year or first year grad school in the US and functional analysis is almost always a graduate course.

my friend who moved here from India after 8th grade said the math he learned in HS + calc 1 and 2 was all review for him.

I'm not gonna lie the two 400 level math classes I took my senior year were not only a joke, but people still ed up so much in them so there was a giant curve at the end. The only hard math classes I had in college were when the professor was from Ukraine or Russia

[baseline bum]

my friend who moved here from India after 8th grade said the math he learned in HS + calc 1 and 2 was all review for him.

I'm not gonna lie the two 400 level math classes I took my senior year were not only a joke, but people still ed up so much in them so there was a giant curve at the end. The only hard math classes I had in college were when the professor was from Ukraine or Russia

Yeah, India's no joke when it comes to their good students. You can watch courses from the IIT system of colleges at YouTube on the nptel channel, and their math starts with real analysis, their physics with waves and vibrations. Surprisingly, their computer science courses are pretty lame in comparison to top American programs like Berkeley's or Princeton's though.

[Wild Cobra]

Study Debunks Classic Argument About Low-Wage Workers


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_4653020.html

Maybe these same ones that don't get the better jobs should have never wasted time going to college...

[Wild Cobra]

the problem is we have this mindset that everyone should go to college. i wish i had just learned a trade instead and maaaaybe go to college later on part time if i became an entrepreneur or something.

What's funny is if everyone goes to college, someone still needs to work and Mickey-dees...

There are only so many jobs out there that require college. Only the best of those who go to college will get one.

[Wild Cobra]

The dirty secret is you're never going to get rich if you do what everyone else does. When everyone goes to college it loses its value.

So true.

[Wild Cobra]

This is such a crock of . America's college attendance rate is lower than any other modern country in the world.

And are all these kids getting good jobs?

[Wild Cobra]

I always love these trade school nuthuggers.

"You'd be much better off going to a for profit trade school like Devry!"

Thing is, if you do well in the trade school classes, you are almost guaranteed a good job placement.

[Wild Cobra]

Not only that, they're mostly public colleges and tuition is cheap as ... Germany, Italy, France, Norway, Denmark, Netherlands... all have universities in the top 100 and in all cases yearly tuition is under $1000...

But...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but because of that, it's next to impossible;e to get any job without college...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And are all these kids getting good jobs?

kids are much better off in Sweeden/Germany/Canada than they are here.

Thing is, if you do well in the trade school classes, you are almost guaranteed a good job placement.

agreed, being a plumber and snaking septic tanks for a living is amazing job placement

[boutons_deux]

Angrydude: "The dirty secret is you're never going to get rich if you do what everyone else does. When everyone goes to college it loses its value."

what typical right-wing bull

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

his quote is a strawman that doesn't even make sense. All but a few people on the Forbes 400 list have a degree, and no one is suggesting a college degree in and of itself is a guaranteed path to anything.

Everyone goes to high school as well, I guess that means getting rich as a high school dropout is easy since there's less people who drop out of high school!

[Trainwreck2100]

The for-profit college scam is something that's wrong as well

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The for-profit college scam is something that's wrong as well

Republicans love it though, another example of privatization doing wonders!

[rascal]

The problem is greed.

[boutons_deux]

The problem is greed.

by the wealthy, VRWC, corporations that pay Congress, esp Repugs, to block all progress, all solutions, other than enriching/protecting the payers.

[Wild Cobra]

kids are much better off in Sweeden/Germany/Canada than they are here.

That's not what I asked... I specified jobs.

agreed, being a plumber and snaking septic tanks for a living is amazing job placement

There are so many other things out there than being a plumber. IT, robotics, etc. A couple decades ago, my former employer would higher kids out of ITT and start them at $18/hr, and that was a starting wage in the 90's. Bottom of the scale, and the sky was the limit based on the individuals ability.

[Wild Cobra]

Angrydude: "The dirty secret is you're never going to get rich if you do what everyone else does. When everyone goes to college it loses its value."

what typical right-wing bull

Do you pay 5 figures in income tax with that infinite wisdom you have? Seven if you count the fractions of a dollar...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

That's not what I asked... I specified jobs.

Yes, their jobs are better than the jobs of non-college educated kids in America.

There are so many other things out there than being a plumber. IT, robotics, etc. A couple decades ago, my former employer would higher kids out of ITT and start them at $18/hr, and that was a starting wage in the 90's. Bottom of the scale, and the sky was the limit based on the individuals ability.

$18 an hour
spending as much at ITT Tech as I did for my degree only to make $18 an hour
proving my point
"Education, For the Future!"

[Wild Cobra]

$18/hr 20 years ago wasn't a shabby starting wage.

You sure don't know diddly, do you...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

nevermind, this is noticeably more expensive than my tuition was:

http://programinfo.itt-tech.edu/cost.pdf

$18/hour ecstasy after 6 figures of debt to pay for private trade school