Hmmmmm?

[J.T.]

i didnt actually say Wilson > Luck, though saying "Wilson would be eaten alive" is a hypothetical and nothing more than your opinion.

by the way, Wilson got sacked more than Luck did despite having about 160 less passing attempts. i dont have an exact figure on pressures (i'd have to search around for it, not sure where that stat is readily found). oh and while Luck did cut his interceptions in half (only threw 9 this season) he threw 7 in two playoff games... including 4 against the patriots not so vaunted defense

edit: just saw a stat where Colts gave up the 3rd most QB hits in the league this season with 95, but Seattle was right there with 89, despite far fewer passing plays called

I'm sure if you adjusted Seattle's numbers to subtract all QB hits and sacks when Wilson was trying to monkeyball it and their number comes down a bit. But hey, if Wilson was under pressure a lot, then bully for him putting his team on his back and shoving them into the postseason. Maybe one day Andrew Luck can be so...fortunate. (<- conscious attempt to avoid using Luck's name in the same sentence as any context of the word "luck" itself).

I'd just like to see a little more admission from the people with Wilson's halfway down their throat that the aspects of the Colts' team that would help a young quarterback (a defense that can get the other offense off the field consistently, elite ground game) are pretty terrible. Luck's far and away the team's best RB when you subtract kneeldowns from his ypc. In the playoffs, the defense got torched by Alex Smith for 400 yards and 4 TDs through the air one week, then steamrolled by LeGarrette Blount and Stevan Ridley for a combined 218 yards and 6 TDs on the ground the next week. Would Wilson have not thrown 7 interceptions if his defense was spotting the other team 3 or 4 TDs at the beginning of each playoff game? Maybe not, but look at what happened to Denver in the Super Bowl. Same exact thing. Down huge early, tons of turnovers by a star quarterback. But less of that "Oh I forgot this game actually counts!" nonsense from Luck.

I'm being a little homerish in this Luck vs Wilson thing because like any fan, I study my team. I know that Luck can make good, accurate throws when he gets time to go through a play. Even sometimes when he doesn't. Go watch his TD pass to T.Y. Hilton right at the end of the 3rd quarter of their Week 9 game at Houston. That pass had only one window, about a 1-yard gap between Hilton and the defender. If it was even slightly off it would have been picked or incomplete. So I when I see him throw 7 picks in two playoff games, I see the position the team was in during the game versus oh my god Andrew Luck threw 7 picks. Yes it's bad that he threw 7 picks. I don't like it and if he hadn't maybe the Colts would have blown those teams out instead of getting blown out. Maybe it's all his fault and I'm just not seeing it. But I really don't think that's the case.

I keep saying that Wilson's on the best Seahawks team he'll ever play for and Luck's on the worst Colts team he'll ever play for right now. The 2013 Colts were slightly better than their 2012 iteration but barely. All things considered, I'm cool with where Luck is. Most potential of any of the young QBs, already forced his team to the playoffs twice pretty much by himself and won an epic playoff game. And he threw right into the teeth of the secondary that eviscerated Peyton Manning and beat them. So there's that too. When the team gets better he's going to be unstoppable.

[spurraider21]

by the way, I've been on the Luck > Wilson wagon this entire time, and throughout the season i've made that clear too. just playing a bit of devil's advocate is all.

if you are going to blame some of the hits/pressures on wilson's scrambling, you can also say his scrambling avoided hits and sacks. by the way, i know how awesome Luck is, both running and throwing. i saw him pretty good in week 1. even though the raiders played one of their best games of the year, Luck was just godly throwing the ball early in the game, and that gw touchdown run to escape an embarrassing loss was pretty boss, not gna lie.

Luck is probably the #1 asset in the NFL right now. i just think that besides avante/seahawk fan on ST and myself, Wilson doesn't get enough credit. I'm well aware he played on a team that took some pressure off of him. their defense was #1 in the league and saved their best performance for the superbowl. Lynch was great in the first 2 playoff games. he also averaged less than 4 ypc in 9 of their 16 games this year. towards the end of the year when the seahawks offense was sputtering, Lynch had 5 straight sup-bar games as well. not to mention their receiving core was pretty bad. Sidney Rice has been a flop there and he got injured anyway, and of course Harvin was a non-factor all year.

I'd love to see Wilson on a team that was more pass happy, I think he'd excel. but for now on that team, he is still a big time playmaker (see SF game, with the huge pass to Baldwin in the first half, the game winning touchdown on 4th down) and does just fine moving the chains and putting up TD's even with a sub-par receiving core

[J.T.]

Don't worry braj, that deepthroat jab was exclusively for Avante. You're good. Also I just want to point out that I've never put down Wilson. He has played well, I'm not trying to take that away from him. My point is just that Luck's role is so much larger because the Colts are like the worst good team right now (author's note: my bad I forgot the Chiefs were like still a thing) have a lot of holes and he has to pass a lot. His attempts were down from last year but when you look at the games, they passed to win almost all of them except the 49ers game. They'd try the power run offense rubbish for half the game and then be like, oh we have Andrew Luck, maybe we should throw it. Maybe the Colts are a really good team and just have ty coaching? I dunno. But it's clear that Seattle has good coaching to go along with their stacked team. Wilson would probably still play very well if he had as many attempts as Luck did. They both excel at fulfilling the role their team asks of them.

This has nothing to do with Wilson, but remember that Luck had to replace Peyton Manning in Indianapolis. Walk into the locker room of the team that just had a top 5 QB (remember when this comment would have read "the greatest of all time" ) completely running the offense. And I think we'd all say he answered that bell tremendously. Luck has won 23 games and 11 of them are 4th quarter comebacks. Basically 50%. Again, that stat shows both Luck is good and the Colts are bad to be down in almost 75% of the games they play (because, you know, with losses, you're down in the 4th quarter...). Manning had a lot of comeback wins in Indy too. Luck absolutely had to be that good that fast and he was. I think that's the most interesting thing about his career so far.

[Clipper Nation]

the Colts are like the worst good team right now (author's note: my bad I forgot the Chiefs were like still a thing)

The Bengals, too....

Dalton in the playoffs

[spurraider21]

The Bengals, too....

Dalton in the playoffs

The Bengals actually have a good team though. The Colts roster from top to bottom is probably worse than the Chiefs/Bengals

[jimbo]

I don't give a fat what scheme/system Long Beach State uses they lose 100 out of 100 to USC.

How much money did you have on Michigan when they played Appalachian St? It only makes sense that that's why they lost.

[Avante]

Every time you point to Wilson's stats as "the best QB ever through two seasons" without admitting the reason other young QBs aren't in the same boat due to the fact that they don't play for a team that doesn't need a QB to win.



What a risky bet to make when those two teams were in the NFC Championship game. Way to go out on a limb buddy.



Probably zero.

insinuating Andrew Luck is a turnover machine when he cut his INT total in half from 2012 to 2013 and had less picks than the great Peyton Manning in 2013. Props to your boy for being on the team that won the Super Bowl man. Doesn't change that you're oblivious to the fact that Wilson would be eaten alive by the NFL if forced into the kind of role Luck is in currently.

Stop acting like Andrew Luck plays on a ty team, it make you look like a fool. Nobody plays this but losers....

Joe Montana was only a stud because of the system he was in.
Jerry Rice was only the best because he had Montana and Young.
Bart Starr is in the HOF because of the great team that surrounded him.

So as long as RW plays for the Seahawks he can never be considered one of the best in the league? Are you ing kidding me?

Where do you get this weird idea that Andrew Luck is a better passer? You do know that RW has already thrown for more scores, has a better comp %. Are you saying RW can't make all the throws? What throw can't he make? And stop ignoring thre fact Reggie Wayne/T.Y.Hilton are better receivers than any Seahawk receiver and stop ignoring the fact Luck plays in the wimpy ass AFC South.

You can wahwahwimper around all ya want the facts are this.

Playoff success...RW
reg season wins...RW
less INT's...RW
more td's...RW
comp %...RW
QB rating...RW


NFL records....rookie TD, 100 QB rating for first two seasons.

Dude, you wander around in a ing fantasy world if you think RW would be eaten alive in any NFL scenario. He's not the guy constantly throwing INT's when it matters most that's Andrew Luck.

As you know I;m a Niner fan, so why do I praise RW, could it be I respect talent? Look at you, a COLT fan doing what, how about bragging about a COLT QB. I bet you think Peyton Manning is better than Joe Montana also.....right?

[Trainwreck2100]

If this is true, then phew...guess we were the team of destiny this year.

It's Avante so most likely it's not

[Avante]

How much money did you have on Michigan when they played Appalachian St? It only makes sense that that's why they lost.

So you really don't see any difference in Appalachian State and LBSt, right?

[spurraider21]

Damn Avante with an actually powerful post

[J.T.]

Stop acting like Andrew Luck plays on a ty team, it make you look like a fool. Nobody plays this but losers....

Joe Montana was only a stud because of the system he was in.
Jerry Rice was only the best because he had Montana and Young.
Bart Starr is in the HOF because of the great team that surrounded him.

So as long as RW plays for the Seahawks he can never be considered one of the best in the league? Are you ing kidding me?

Your position in any of this is irrelevant because you just see what you want to see. But I'll field this one anyway champ. Let's talk about how good the Colts are. . . .

Boiled down::
-Secondary routinely gets torched by bad quarterbacks
-Defense hasn't stopped the run since 2005
-Special teams kick coverage has been bad since 2005
-Robert Mathis was almost 50% of the teams sacks
-Offensive line never recovered from Tarik Gleen retiring and is useless between the tackles
-Haven't run the ball well since 2008

They only thing they truly have going for them is the passing game. The team is wildly inconsistent. They're the Forrest Gump of NFL teams. You never know what you're gonna get.

Where do you get this weird idea that Andrew Luck is a better passer? You do know that RW has already thrown for more scores, has a better comp %. Are you saying RW can't make all the throws? What throw can't he make? And stop ignoring thre fact Reggie Wayne/T.Y.Hilton are better receivers than any Seahawk receiver and stop ignoring the fact Luck plays in the wimpy ass AFC South.

No one's putting down Wilson so you creating this fake debate about me dissing his stats isn't going to happen. I think Luck is better. No disrespect to Wilson's game, he's good too. Colts receiving corps is better though, astute observation champ. And that the Colts division is bad too. I forgot all about that. Cleveland might have a top 10 pick from us if we placed in the NFC. The Colts sure have greatly overachieved the past two seasons haven't they.

Russell Wilson life story clipped

Must be nice playing for a team that doesn't put their fate on your right arm 16+ times a year.

Dude, you wander around in a ing fantasy world if you think RW would be eaten alive in any NFL scenario. He's not the guy constantly throwing INT's when it matters most that's Andrew Luck.

No, I live in a pretty real world where I clearly said I think Wilson would be eaten alive if put into Luck's shoes, having to throw the ball for entire games because the defense is giving up points all day and the running game's nickname is "Let's Waste A Down".

As you know I;m a Niner fan, so why do I praise RW, could it be I respect talent? Look at you, a COLT fan doing what, how about bragging about a COLT QB. I bet you think Peyton Manning is better than Joe Montana also.....right?

I think he's barely better than Brett Favre if you ask me.

[spurraider21]

Luck averaged less than 7 yards per attempt which is ty in today's game. Also, him passing more and having a run game/defense/special team coverage (lol), and having better receivers would lead one to believe he'd have more TD's than Wilson though

[jimbo]

So you really don't see any difference in Appalachian State and LBSt, right?

Well one of them has a football program that still exists and the other doesn't. Savannah St might be a more recent program to use tbh.

and FWIW Long Beach actually did beat USC in basketball earlier this year

[Avante]

Your position in any of this is irrelevant because you just see what you want to see. But I'll field this one anyway champ. Let's talk about how good the Colts are. . . .

Boiled down::
-Secondary routinely gets torched by bad quarterbacks
-Defense hasn't stopped the run since 2005
-Special teams kick coverage has been bad since 2005
-Robert Mathis was almost 50% of the teams sacks
-Offensive line never recovered from Tarik Gleen retiring and is useless between the tackles
-Haven't run the ball well since 2008

They only thing they truly have going for them is the passing game. The team is wildly inconsistent. They're the Forrest Gump of NFL teams. You never know what you're gonna get.




No one's putting down Wilson so you creating this fake debate about me dissing his stats isn't going to happen. I think Luck is better. No disrespect to Wilson's game, he's good too. Colts receiving corps is better though, astute observation champ. And that the Colts division is bad too. I forgot all about that. Cleveland might have a top 10 pick from us if we placed in the NFC. The Colts sure have greatly overachieved the past two seasons haven't they.



Must be nice playing for a team that doesn't put their fate on your right arm 16+ times a year.



No, I live in a pretty real world where I clearly said I think Wilson would be eaten alive if put into Luck's shoes, having to throw the ball for entire games because the defense is giving up points all day and the running game's nickname is "Let's Waste A Down".



I think he's barely better than Brett Favre if you ask me.

So I'll ask you again and how about a real answer instead of trying to make excuses for a team that ...

won the AFC South (ok ok...hahaha!)
won a playoff game
beat...THE SUPERBOWL CHAMPS...THE AFC CHAMPION...the powerful Niners and twice beating a good KC team.

Dude, stop cry babying around like some who got short changed....ok?

Tell me munckin what throws can't Russell Wilson make? At least it doesn't have this ...DUH!...look on his face.

No song n' dance bull slick......what throws can't RW make?

Look at this and then tell me what RW can't do that Luck can...ok?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXhWl2iPINQ

[J.T.]

Luck averaged less than 7 yards per attempt which is ty in today's game. Also, him passing more and having a run game/defense/special team coverage (lol), and having better receivers would lead one to believe he'd have more TD's than Wilson though

He was averaging 8 yards per attempt at the point Reggie Wayne went down. We all know he's an elite receiver but they had no depth behind Hilton. Fleener stepped up a little bit. DHB totally didn't work out but I always thought of that signing as a cheap gamble anyway. And everyone else was off the practice squad, except Brazill who's maybe played 30 NFL snaps with Luck. Only natural his stats would go down, Wayne was about 35% of Luck's targets (60% on 3rd down).

[spurraider21]

He was averaging 8 yards per attempt at the point Reggie Wayne went down. We all know he's an elite receiver but they had no depth behind Hilton. Fleener stepped up a little bit. DHB totally didn't work out but I always thought of that signing as a cheap gamble anyway. And everyone else was off the practice squad, except Brazill who's maybe played 30 NFL snaps with Luck. Only natural his stats would go down, Wayne was about 35% of Luck's targets (60% on 3rd down).

Yeah their offense went into a rut for a while after Wayne went down. And I coulda warned you about DHB . The worst part is that he was starting over Hilton

[jimbo]

and tbh I don't think there's a person out there that'll disagree with you about the bottom line being talent that wins games. In college you've got all these wild schemes going out there, but none of those gimmick teams ever win the le. I think the last team to win the national championship without a top 10 recruiting class was Oklahoma in 2000.

The only reason Seattle is able to do what they did is because they've got guys on cheap contracts, especially at QB. (Same thing with your 49ers) You can win doing whatever the you want if you can load enough cheap talent on your team.

[Avante]

and tbh I don't think there's a person out there that'll disagree with you about the bottom line being talent that wins games. In college you've got all these wild schemes going out there, but none of those gimmick teams ever win the le. I think the last team to win the national championship without a top 10 recruiting class was Oklahoma in 2000.

The only reason Seattle is able to do what they did is because they've got guys on cheap contracts, especially at QB. (Same thing with your 49ers) You can win doing whatever the you want if you can load enough cheap talent on your team.

Dude, nobody gives a about why teams can do what they do. That means....0.

[J.T.]

So I'll ask you again and how about a real answer instead of trying to make excuses for a team that ...

won the AFC South (ok ok...hahaha!)
won a playoff game
beat...THE SUPERBOWL CHAMPS...THE AFC CHAMPION...the powerful Niners and twice beating a good KC team.

Yeah I guess the Colts are kinda good sometimes and kinda bad sometimes. But the things they are bad at they are kinda bad at a lot of the time and that's kinda what makes them one of those bad good teams I was telling you about.

Tell me munckin what throws can't Russell Wilson make? At least it doesn't have this ...DUH!...look on his face.

"Next week on 'Avante Perpetuates An Argument Nobody Is Trying To Have', Avante learns that Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck are both NFL quarterbacks, meaning they wouldn't have been drafted if they couldn't make all the throws."

I guess Luck can't throw a game winning interception though.
inb4 "would be nice since he throws so many of them!"

[Avante]

Yeah I guess the Colts are kinda good sometimes and kinda bad sometimes. But the things they are bad at they are kinda bad at a lot of the time and that's kinda what makes them one of those bad good teams I was telling you about.



"Next week on 'Avante Perpetuates An Argument Nobody Is Trying To Have', Avante learns that Russell Wilson and Andrew Luck are both NFL quarterbacks, meaning they wouldn't have been drafted if they couldn't make all the throws."

I guess Luck can't throw a game winning interception though.
inb4 "would be nice since he throws so many of them!"

Did you watch the video....nope!

It's real obvious that RW is the better runner, it's also real obvious he has an NFL arm. So what are you looking at that gives you this impression Andrew Luck is a better QB? Stop with this stupid......he throws more. You ever hear anyone say Dan Marino was better than Joe Montana, he threw a of a lot more,.....BIG ING DEAL....that don't mean .

One more tiime.....hey J.T. what throws can Andrew Luck make that RW can't, and be specific. Unless you can answer that just what in the are you talking about?

Dude, how about actually looking at that video...ok? I don't think you have a clue what you're trying to talk about. WHAT THROWS CAN'T RW MAKE??????????

[Avante]

What happened to J.T.?

All l I need is for him or anyone to tell me what throws can Luck make that RW can't, well?

Storytime.....

Usian Bolt started off as a 400/200 guy. He spent years running those two events, mostly the 200m. Then at around 22 he decides to start running the 100m, (more $$$$$$$ there) On the track boards it was...."he's too tall, there are no great 6-5 100m guys, he won't have the start, his thing is his speed endurance (which is the 200m) not explosive speed (the 100m). You see the cat had never ran the 100m before. And in his very first one who is he in against.....Tyson Gay....the fastest American ever, so what happens, yep....Bolt totally blew Gay away. So what's the morall of that story....????

[spurraider21]

What throws could Montana make that Elway couldn't?

[Avante]

What throws could Montana make that Elway couldn't?

Montana had far better touch than Elway had, he put the ball in better positions to be caught, Elway having the far stronger arm. Elway had more velocity on the ball, Montana more finese.

[spurraider21]

Montana had far better touch than Elway had, he put the ball in better positions to be caught, Elway having the far stronger arm. Elway had more velocity on the ball, Montana more finese.

Peyton and Brees can make every throw that Montana could.

I'm just saying that it's a bad argument you used there

[jimbo]

Dude, nobody gives a about why teams can do what they do. That means....0.

You're not living in the pre free agency/salary cap era anymore. Jerry Jones is the prime example of your kind of thinking. Look at what he's won while trying to construct a team in the salary cap era.