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Not my fault that two of my least favorite players of all time happen to have the most delusional and annoying fanbases
ok, catholic church
Not my fault that two of my least favorite players of all time happen to have the most delusional and annoying fanbases
The East was the inferior conference for most of MJ's le run as well, once the Bad Boy Pistons fell off. I really don't think that the teams MJ beat in the EC playoffs (Cavaliers, Knicks, Heat, Magic) were as good as the top teams in the West.
Teams that MJ faced in playoffs without googling: Jazz (97 specifically when Malone won the MVP), Suns (MVP year for Barkley, where MJ averaged close to 40ppg), Sonics (Prime Payton and Kemp, Detlepf Shremp, kendall Gill, Sam Perkins and Geroge Karl as the coach), Bad Boy Pistons, Bad Boy Version II Knicks, Atlanta Hawks with Wilkins, Blazers with Drexler, oh and I haven't even mentioned the Magic (the only team that truly "beat" the Bulls, even though MJ came back from retirement no less than 3 months earlier) and I'm pretty sure Im still missing the Lakers, Rockets with Hakeem, Barkler and Drexler amongst others.
Most of the top 50 players of all time Mj faced against minus a prime Hakeem and he still curbstomped them. The only relevant teams Lebron has faced:
Pacers- A team that for whatever reason has been the only compe ion in the East because of the lack of talent these days. While there is no denying the coaching excellence of Vogel, they are no where near on par than any of those teams listed above. Paul George wouldnt even crack the Top 60 players of all time at this point.
Pistons- Never the same team after Lebron had that stellar 45/46 point game 5 against them.
Celtics- While a great team in their own right Lebron only won against them after establishing the superfriends and them being on their last legs sure they took them to Game 7 in 2012, with a stellar performance from Lebron, but they had no business even making it to a Game 7. this series should of been over in 5.
Thunder-A young and unexperienced Thunder team, they had the jitters. Of course Lebron took advantage seeing how it was his 3rd ing finals appearance. Not taking anything away from him, but KD was nowhere near as good as he was then as he is now. He is a better playmaker. Oh and Ibaka is now finally a great 3rd banana, and Russell understands when to shoot and when to defer. If they meet this year it was not be the same series.
Mavs- It took Dirk going full blown Super Saiyan for them to even reach the finals. Lebron choked when it mattered. Nuff said. (*He has been way more clutch since then, but the fact is he did choke in that series*
Spurs-It took all the dominoes falling for the Spurs (Westbrook injury, no injury issues minus Parkers hamstring tweaking in Game 6, but hey lets forget about that right) for them to make the Finals. Duncan is NO WAY IN as good as he was 10 years prior, yet still managed to carry his team, and would have won it too but it took 1 miraculuous and possibly one of the greatest shots ive ever witnessed from....wait for it.....wait for it....RAY ING JESUS SHUTTLESWORTH ALLEN NOT LEBRON for it to even go to overtime. Don't you ever mention this as the "headband game" again this was "The Shot"
This debate was never about whether or not Lebron was an all time great. It was you proclaiming him as the best ever. I hope you educate yourself further on basketball and try not let the door hit you on the way out. Peace.
I agree to an extent. I will say however this is the best crop of talent weve seen from the west in a long time. I firmly believe that at least 4-5 teams have a shot at winning the le from the West.
Lebron needs at least 5 to surpass MJ ... if it's close rings wise Lebron may get that edge he may not need 6. Byut he sure aint the GOAT with only two.
Yawn. No one's had a convincing argument so far, Lebron remains the GOAT, tbh.
No one has to, you stepped out and made a bold statement. The general basketball public over the age of 25 that actually saw Mj play needs convincing.
if pop didn't go full re /ray allen making the greatest shot in finals history, there would be literally no argument for this. granted those things happened, and now he's a 2x champ and fMVP. but you should put that into perspective too
But it did happen, Lebron the GOAT.
thank you for acknowledging what i said. i said "those things happened, and now he's a 2x champ and fMVP" so you really aren't refuting anything i said. you are just echoing part of my comment
Teams that MJ faced in playoffs without googling: Jazz (97 specifically when Malone won the MVP), Suns (MVP year for Barkley, where MJ averaged close to 40ppg), Sonics (Prime Payton and Kemp, Detlepf Shremp, kendall Gill, Sam Perkins and Geroge Karl as the coach), Bad Boy Pistons, Bad Boy Version II Knicks, Atlanta Hawks with Wilkins, Blazers with Drexler, oh and I haven't
Most of the top 50 players of al
Pacers- A team that for whatever reason has been the only compe ion in the East because of the lack of talent these days. While there is no denying the coaching excellence of Vo
Pistons- Never the same team after
Celtics- While a great team in their own right Lebron only won against them after establishing the superfriends and them being on their last legs sure they took them to Game 7 in 2012, with a stellar performance from Lebron, but they had no business even making it to a Game 7. this series should of been over in 5.
Thunder-A young and unexperienced Thunder team, they had the jitters. Of course Lebron took advantage seeing how it was his 3rd ing final
Mavs- It too
Spurs-It took all the dominoes falling for the Spurs (Westbrook injury, no injury issues minus Parkers hamstring tweaking in Game 6, but hey lets forget about that right) for them to make the Finals. Duncan is NO WAY IN as good as he was 10 years prior, yet still managed to carry his team, and would have won it too but it took 1 miraculuous and possibly one of the greatest shots ive ever witnessed from....wait for it.....wait for it....RAY ING JESUS SHUTTLES
This debate was never about whether or not Lebron was an all time great. It was you proclaiming him as the best ever. I hope you educate yourre ed
Heel trolling s left and right without them even noticing.
thing is I didnt really like MJ until late in his career. I have said many times on here I hope he DOES surpass MJ because the MJ lovers act like he can never be touched. But by saying he ALREADY is GOAT you just adding more fuel for the Lebron haters. He may get there but I won't give it to him until he deserves it.
I also praised Lebron in the game thread last night. but you just went too far.
I have come to appreciate Lebron, he's really a special player. It took a while for me to realize how amazing he is. All facets of the game, he's just phenomenal. But, lets call a spade a spade. He's not passing Jordan in both legacy or accomplishments. Winning 6 out of 6 is a tall order. Lebron's run has been great but his Finals averages are actually a bit disappointing. His numbers are slightly better than Kobe and Kobe's not really a model in excellency.
The arguments that Dad Killer fans present are so flawed, tbh
- I don't think Lebron has went up against great compe ion in the East, but have you guys actually seem the teams Dad Killer went up against in his era?
- Three hasn't been a top 20 player since 2011, tbh..his metrics during the past 2 playoff runs, particularly last year, were just awful and not even close to prime Three..the only players that have won les with as much or less than Lebron are 2003 Duncan and 1994 Olajuwon, tbh..
- I find it puzzling that Lebron is hated by many for trivial reasons, yet these same people admire a man that played a part in the murder of his own father
in 2011 finals Wade showed up big time, Lebron didn't and no amount of "
s a pimp in real life...
Lebron choked his balls of in 2011, and was saved in 2013, though he did capitalize with an epic game 7. MJ had his "Cleveland" era in the 80's with no help, but he had to play the celtics and pistons. Lebron lost to Dwight tbh. Kang is going to have to sustain this level of play for at least a few more years, much like DK did once he broke through and rang
you can talk about the pacers and Knicks of the 90's but look at the east right now, tbh
Blaming a guy that averaged 38-8-8 for the series, with a playoff record PER, is just a sad argument..
And for the record, as I've said before, I do think Dad Killer has the greatest career of all-time, and I don't think Lebron will surpass him from an accolades/career standpoint..from a peak-standpoint, Lebron is better, though, and he would be revered even more had he played in an era without social media, etc..
If Dad Killer played in today's league, he would be viewed in a different light, tbh..Stern would not have been able to cover up his off-court "activities" like he could in the early 90s..
Alright, strike that example from the record, tbh
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