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that's not an answer, that's an evasion.
who protects the public when the company won't tattle on itself, and the regulators are captured by industry?
you know, like in this case?
was asking WC, thanks, though
that's not an answer, that's an evasion.
who protects the public when the company won't tattle on itself, and the regulators are captured by industry?
you know, like in this case?
We then have problems.
How is my answer evasive when I simply acknowledge i don't have all the answers. We do what we can to stop corruption, but we will always have some.
If we take harsh measure when we do find guilty parties, it will send a message to others that contemplate such ideas. Deterrents are not perfect, but they do have an effect.
there's no role for federal oversight, if industry and local officialdom are corrupt? I thought you wanted responsible people shot.
How many will do corrupt things if such actions are dealt with severely? How will federal oversight help of it's just a different person to be corrupted? Corrupt a federal official, and now you have control over 50 states, instead of one state by corrupting a state official.
who's gonna shoot the bad guys if industry and local officials are corrupt?
LOL...
I'm sure there would be many volunteers!
mob justice?
say what you want about environmental regulation and civil liability, it's way more consensual, equitable and predictable than a mob lynching.
Last edited by Winehole23; 02-19-2014 at 09:16 PM.
You sure extrapolate things in a comical manner.
you inspired me, WC.
WEST VIRGINIA IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS
I don't care any more what's the matter with Kansas because Kansas doesn't seem to care what the rest of us think, but what in the fk is the matter with West Virginia? Specifically, what in the fk is wrong with the elected officials in West Virginia, and more specifically, is Governor Earl Ray Tomblin waiting until you can see the state glow from space before he realizes that his business-friendly environment is primarily occupied wth poisoning the state's actual environment?
Right now, as the state is still grappling with the effect of the chemical spill from the conveniently bankrupt Freedom Industries, and from a deluge of coal slurry into a river an Kanawha County, this one courtesy of the recently-emerged-from-bankruptcy Patriot Coal, Governor Earl Ray and his environmental secretary have decided that this is the ideal moment to turn West Virginia into a catchbasin for fracking fluids.
The legislation, HB 4411, which would allow the disposal of drill cuttings and associated drilling waste generated from well sites in commercial solid waste facilities, passed the House Energy Committee yesterday. And the Energy Committee is seeking to bypass the House Judiciary Committee and move the bill straight to the House floor.In July 2013, Huffman, without consulting solid waste authorities throughout the state, sent a memo to landfill owners and operators laying out how they could blow by their monthly tonnage limits to accommodate the fracking wastes.
Once again, as it is on so many other issues, it is out in the states where environmental issues are most directly being either ignored, or actively exacerbated, largely because state governments are cheaper and easier to buy. (Here's a nice story about the lagoons of pig currently afflicting Iowa.)
There's a straight line to be drawn from unregulated exploding fertilizer plants in Texas to the decision by West Virginia's government to turn their already poisoned state into a repository for the toxic byproduct of an entirely new form of dirty energy extraction. There doesn't seem to be any penalty to be paid for a governor who willingly allows his state to get poisoned as long as JOBS! can be waved around as a talisman. And, well, the rest of their cons uents have to live with it. Or not.
Wetzel County County Solid Waste authority member Bill Hughes is concerned about the radioactivity of fracking wastes. "When you are drilling down, your gamma log, gamma radiation detector starts ing,"Hughes said at a Wetzel County Commission meeting in September 2013. "That's how they know they are in the Marcellus. They want to stay in the real rich black stuff. That's where the money is, the gas is. When you bring this up to the surface, the radiation doesn't stay down there. All the fluids, all the solids, bring it up."
Hughes said that while Pennsylvania requires radiation monitors, West Virginia does not. "My concern is the landfill workers," Hughes said. "They are there daily at the site, working at the landfill, unloading these trucks. I don't know in what proximity they are to the drill mud. These are all unknowns. My point is we don't even know."
You're not supposed to know. That's the point.
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politic...racking-021814
as always with WC, govt IS the problem, not the corporate money corrupting/controlling govt.
It was Duke Energy corrupting state/local govt to obtain whatever TF Duke Energy wanted.
here's another Repug state govt colluding with frackers to suppress dissent and open state parks to fracking
"Frackgate": Ohio Regulators Planned to Subvert Eco-Groups, Promote Fracking in State Parks
A fracking scandal is unfolding in Ohio. Environmental groups and state lawmakers slammed Republican Gov. John Kasich and state regulators this week over internal do ents that they say show the Kasich administration planned to collude with the oil and gas industry to publicly promote fracking in state parks while fending off criticism from a "Nixon-style enemies list" of state lawmakers and environmental groups.
In 2012, the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR) outlined a broad public relations campaign for selling Ohioans on the benefits of hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, in two state parks. The 13-page "communication plan," which was uncovered by the Ohio Sierra Club, proposes that the ODNR enlist support from "allies" in the Kasich administration and the oil and gas industry and "marginalize the effectiveness of communications" of fracking opponents. The plan was never implemented.
The plan admits that the fracking initiative would "blur public perception of ODNR's regulatory role in oil and gas," which would "require precise messaging and coordination by ODNR."
Industry Friends and Environmental Foes
A list of "current and potential" non-governmental allies in the plan includes Halliburton, the Ohio Oil and Gas Association, the US Chamber of Commerce and America's Natural Gas Alliance.
A list of targeted "opposition groups" includes the Ohio Sierra Club, the Natural Resources Defense Council, EcoWatch, Waterkeeper Alliance, Ohio FrackAction and two Democratic state lawmakers.
The ODNR communication plan warns that fracking in state parks would be met by "zealous resistance" from anti-fracking activists who are "skilled propagandists." The public, the plan states, would be vulnerable to messages from fracking opponents who would paint the initiative as "a dangerous and radical state policy by Gov. Kasich." Anti-fracking activists also may stage confrontational protests and try to physically or legally stop fracking operations on public lands, the plan states.
"This is an unprecedented collusion between oil and gas companies and the agencies that regulate them," said Brian Kunkemoeller, a program coordinator with the Ohio Sierra Club who stumbled on the plan last week while reviewing files from a public information request. "This isn't just bad news for our parks and forests, it's bad news for our democracy."
http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/2...in-state-parks
No we don't.
Your libertarian ideal would be far worse, and demonstrably so.
according to this site, there were no federal regs related to coal ash until this year: http://www.southeastcoalash.org/?page_id=50
Yep. Big coal bribed coal ash out Of hazmat category
Please provide us with the evidence.
coal ash has never been classified as toxic by EPA, CWA, or anything. Just how do you think Ms of tons of that dangerous crap escaped regulation?
And that's because of bribes?
Evidence please.
Ash Spill Shows How Watchdog Was Defanged
RALEIGH, N.C. — Last June, state employees in charge of stopping water pollution were given updated marching orders on behalf of North Carolina’s new Republican governor and conservative lawmakers.
“The General Assembly doesn’t like you,” an official in the Department of Environment and Natural Resources told supervisors called to a drab meeting room here. “They cut your budget, but you didn’t get the message. And they cut your budget again, and you still didn’t get the message.”
From now on, regulators were told, they must focus on customer service, meaning issuing environmental permits for businesses as quickly as possible.
Big changes are coming, the official said, according to three people in the meeting, two of whom took notes. “If you don’t like change, you’ll be gone.”
But when the nation’s largest utility, Duke Energy, spilled 39,000 tons of coal ash into the Dan River in early February, those big changes were suddenly playing out in a different light. Federal prosecutors have begun a criminal investigation into the spill and the relations between Duke and regulators at the environmental agency.
The spill, which coated the river bottom 70 miles downstream and threatened drinking water and aquatic life, drew attention to a deal that the environmental department’s new leadership reached with Duke last year over pollution from coal ash ponds. It included a minimal fine but no order that Duke remove the ash — the waste from burning coal to generate electricity — from its leaky, unlined ponds. Environmental groups said the arrangement protected a powerful utility rather than the environment or the public.
Facing increasing scrutiny and criticism, the department said late Friday that the company would be cited for two formal notices of violating environmental standards in connection with the spill. It is not clear what fines or other penalties could result.
"These are violations of state and federal law, and we are holding the utility accountable,” said the state environmental secretary, John E. Skvarla III.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/01...na-agency.html
Five More Duke Energy Power Plants Cited For Storing Coal Waste Improperly
The North Carolina Department of Environment and Natural Resources (DENR) on Monday cited five more Duke Energy power plants for not having storm water permits.
These citations follow two others issued Friday against the Dan River Steam Station in Eden, where, on February 2, 39,000 tons of coal ash were funneled through a broken storm water pipe under a coal ash pond and into the Dan River.
Duke Energy faces potential fines of $25,000 per day, per violation. Regulators say they are still in the process of assessing how coal ash is stored at all 14 of Duke’s sites in North Carolina. Coal ash is a toxic sludge left over from the burning of coal in old power plants.
“It is shocking that Duke Energy was openly violating the most fundamental requirements of clean water laws, and discharging industrial storm water directly into the Dan River illegally,” Frank Holleman, senior attorney at the Southern Environmental Law Center told the Los Angeles Times.
Duke has 30 days from the issuance of the violation notices to make its case to the DENR before fines are set.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/03/04/3359261/stormwater-violations-duke-energy/
how will NC governor for Duke Energy get involved?
Another risisble wrist slap
Huge Coal Company To Pay Largest-Ever Fine After 6,000 Clean Water Violations In 7 Years
Alpha Natural Resources, the third-largest coal company in the U.S., agreed to pay a $27.5 million fine after violating water pollution permits in Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Virginia and West Virginia.
Over the last seven years, Alpha and its subsidiaries discharged heavy metals into waterways across those five Appalachian states 6,289 times, through 794 different discharge points, sometimes by as much as 35 times the legal limit.
(ing insane. why is there a "legal limit" to dumping poisons in waterways?
The pollutants that spilled from the coal mines throughout Appalachia include “iron, pH, total suspended solids, aluminum, manganese, selenium, and salinity,” according to an EPA press release.
The giant coal company will also spend $200 million to stop sending toxic discharge into the nations rivers and streams. According to the AP, which obtained details about the settlement on Wednesday, “under the agreement, the mine operators will install wastewater treatment systems and take other measures aimed at reducing discharges from 79 active coal mines and 25 coal-processing plants in those five states.”
Cynthia Giles, who runs the Environmental Protection Agency’s enforcement office, told the AP that the settlement was “the biggest case for permit violations for numbers of violations and size of the penalty, which reflects the seriousness of violations.”
“This is the largest one, period.”
A big part of the reason this settlement was so comprehensive and expensive is because in 2011, Alpha Natural Resources bought a coal company called Massey Energy. Massey’s coal operations account for more than half of the violations represented in Wednesday’s settlement.
Alpha spent $7.1 billion to purchase Massey, and it has been picking up the pieces ever since. Months after the purchase agreement was announced, Massey was still fighting a legal battle over dumping 1.4 billion gallons of toxic coal slurry into old underground coal mines — knowing all the while that the mines leaked into the water supply. Alpha settled the lawsuit with hundreds of West Virginia residents in 2011.
Massey received global headlines for the tragic explosion in 2010 that killed 29 miners, and stayed in the headlines as Massey CEO Don Blankenship’s confrontational relationship with safety regulators prompted shareholder calls for his resignation. In 2009, Blankenship called the idea that safety regulators cared more about coal miners than he did “as silly as global warming.” This despite the small world encompassing coal industry and coal regulators: President Bush appointed a former Massey official to an MSHA review commission in 2002.
In 2012, Massey mine superintendent Gary May pled guilty to charges of criminal conspiracy over deceiving federal safety regulators. When the Mine Safety and Health Administration would come for an inspection, May would warn miners, increase air ventilation, falsify records, and cut corners in order to hide dangerous safety violations.
Though 2014 is barely two months old, the U.S. has seen a raft of coal spills — in West Virginia, North Carolina, West Virginia again, and West Virginia again — signalling the problem of dirty coal is not going away.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/03/05/3366341/clean-water-violations-coal-fine/
BigCoal is as filthy and corrupt an industry as politics, and as the rest of BigCorporate.
This is the kind of damage that Republican dogma causes.Ash Spill Shows How Watchdog Was Defanged
RALEIGH, N.C. — Last June, state employees in charge of stopping water pollution were given updated marching orders on behalf of North Carolina’s new Republican governor and conservative lawmakers.
“The General Assembly doesn’t like you,” an official in the Department of Environment and Natural Resources told supervisors called to a drab meeting room here. “They cut your budget, but you didn’t get the message. And they cut your budget again, and you still didn’t get the message.”
From now on, regulators were told, they must focus on customer service, meaning issuing environmental permits for businesses as quickly as possible.
Big changes are coming, the official said, according to three people in the meeting, two of whom took notes. “If you don’t like change, you’ll be gone.”
But when the nation’s largest utility, Duke Energy, spilled 39,000 tons of coal ash into the Dan River in early February, those big changes were suddenly playing out in a different light. Federal prosecutors have begun a criminal investigation into the spill and the relations between Duke and regulators at the environmental agency.
The spill, which coated the river bottom 70 miles downstream and threatened drinking water and aquatic life, drew attention to a deal that the environmental department’s new leadership reached with Duke last year over pollution from coal ash ponds. It included a minimal fine but no order that Duke remove the ash — the waste from burning coal to generate electricity — from its leaky, unlined ponds. Environmental groups said the arrangement protected a powerful utility rather than the environment or the public.
Facing increasing scrutiny and criticism, the department said late Friday that the company would be cited for two formal notices of violating environmental standards in connection with the spill. It is not clear what fines or other penalties could result.
"These are violations of state and federal law, and we are holding the utility accountable,” said the state environmental secretary, John E. Skvarla III.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/01...na-agency.html
As bad as this stuff is, I take comfort from the fact that it rather sharply highlights the failure of conservatism to deal with reality as it actually is in some cases, and how when you strangle government because you think it is a wasteful predator taking advantage of hard working people, the real wasteful predators move in.
Duke Energy Must Immediately Stop Polluting Groundwater In North Carolina, Judge Rules
A North Carolina county judge ruled Thursday that Duke Energy must immediately act to stop groundwater contamination coming from its 14 coal-fired power plants in the state.
The ruling, issued by Judge Paul Ridgeway, directs Duke to come up with a plan to clean up sites that have been contaminated by leaking coal ash ponds, reversing a 2012 North Carolina Environmental Management Commission ruling that Duke wasn’t required to immediately clean up contaminated groundwater from its operations. That ruling was contested by multiple environmental groups more than a year ago, but the new ruling comes just over a month after about 35 million gallons of coal ash from a Duke Energy coal ash basin spilled into the Dan River.
“The ruling leaves no doubt, Duke Energy is past due on its obligation to eliminate the sources of groundwater contamination, its unlined coal ash pits, and the State has both the authority and a duty to require action now,” D.J. Gerken, senior attorney at the Southern Environmental Law Center, said in a statement. “This ruling enforces a common-sense requirement in existing law – before you can clean up contaminated groundwater, you first must stop the source of the contamination- in this case, Duke’s unlined coal ash pits.”
According to the SELC, data collected over the years clearly shows that coal-fired power plants have caused groundwater contamination in the state, but until now, the state had maintained that it couldn’t take action against Duke until it figured out the extent of the pollution.
“Arsenic has been detected at levels exceeding legal standards in the groundwater at the Dan River plant at every sampling event since January 2011,” Pete Harrison, a staff attorney at the Waterkeeper Alliance said. “If the state had exercised its authority to require cleanup of those ponds previously, the catastrophic February 2014 coal ash spill could have been prevented. The time to use this authority to require cleanup at other plants around the state is now, before another disaster occurs.”
The SELC also says that most of North Carolina’s coal ash ponds are aging — some have been in operation for as long as 50 years. Gerken told the Charlotte Observer that the only solution he knows of for halting pollution from the ponds is to move the ash from the ponds into lined landfills.
Duke’s environmental citations have piled up in the weeks after the Dan River spill. This week, the North Carolina Department of Environment and Natural Resources (DENR) cited five Duke Energy power plants for not having storm water permits, citations that came a few days after two other power plants were cited for the same reason. Gov. Pat McCrory has pressured Duke to clean up the spill, giving the utility until March 15 to submit clean-up plans to the state, and has also said he wants Duke Energy to remove coal ash from all holding ponds that sit on water sources.
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/201...a-judge-rules/
BigCoal, propagandize us AGAIN how BigCoal in CleanCoal!
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