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Kerr 5
Horry 7
I agree that Arcadian had a stupid take (EDIT: or really it wasn't that stupid, but he worded it poorly, almost as if he were suggesting that Duncan would dominate Kareem, although I'm sure that's not what he meant), but OTOH Kareem " s on" Duncan may be a bit strong. Duncan is awfully good himself and arguably one of the 3 greatest big men ever. They both would give each other plenty of problems, and both are probably a bit too skilled to stop each other. I don't see either one being flat out more dominant than the other. Kareem is a better individual player with a more accomplished career (2nd greatest player ever behind MJ in my opinion), but in a head to head matchup, it's not like Kareem would just drop 50 while Timmy struggles to get 10. They would both make each other work hard.
It's every bit as silly as people who think if Kobe and MJ played 1-on-1 that MJ would dominate with ease. Sure, MJ has unquestionably the better total body of work in his career, and is a better overall basketball player than Kobe, but if they played 1-on-1, it would be a of a game, and neither player would flat out dominate. It would be a hard fought game.
I really hope you aren't talking about that block in the ASG where Lebron was clearly putting up a lazy halfhearted shot, that Kobe lovers seem to put so much stock into...
Either way, pretty much every thing you said was probably right, outside of Magic being anything more than a mediocre defender. He was never a good one-on-one defender, and as stated earlier, 3 on 3 is basically 3 separate games of 1-on-1 going on. He wasn't exactly a good 1-on-1 scorer either, especially compared to MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Kareem, and Timmy.
Magic would be the problem in this matchup, as he is clearly the weakest link in this type of game. Magic was the ultimate team player, but you are pretty limited in what kind of "team" work you can do in a 3-on-3 halfcourt game.
Last edited by Phillip; 02-21-2014 at 02:30 PM.
Kerr 5
Horry 7
Not saying that block was big deal but MJ pretty much laid out that strategy in his MJ@50 interview. The block doesnt mean Kobe is better or anything not implying that but it was Lebron being defended in a 1 on 1 situation and to say he was not trying is a cop out. Especially since Mj we know tries at ALL times. The fact Lebron wasnt trying only strengthens MJ would win argument, not hurt it.
I am not sure how old you are Phillip, because I barely caught the tail end of Kareem's prime. But Going to UCLA I saw a lot of KAreem in college because they play old UCLA games all the time. And since I was in college around the same time as duncan (just behind him) I saw him play a lot of hoops then plus I lived in SA for 3 years. College Kareem is much better than Tim was and that is no knock on Tim, Kareem was THAT good. Kareem is not may favorite Laker tbh out of the ones I met he was the most "aloof" ...but as a player he was better than Duncan in my opinion especially when you consider Kool said "prime". Duncan is one of the 3 best bigs I have ever seen and body of work to me is better than shaq. But when you talk "primes" Kareem>Shaq>Hakeem>duncan. Career wise Kareem>duncan>Shaq>Hakeem.
Again the question was prime one on one and as someone mentioned when you talk 1 on1 Magic and Timmy two of my favorite players are not quite as useful ...but they are two of the alll-time great team-mates and leaders.
I am sorry me being biased has little to do with my thoughts watch old footage of Kareem ...tell me I am wrong.
Last edited by Killakobe81; 02-21-2014 at 03:03 PM.
Kobe is the worst player out of the six. MJ>Kareem>Magic>Duncan>Lebron>Kobe
In 1 on 1 No, he is not. He is better than duncan or Magic ...
Career wise, Kobe is right there with Duncan.
Lebron still has winning to do to be in that class resume wise. Peak wise he is up there near the top
This, tbh.
I'm probably younger than you, but just love basketball in general. I have my own business and work from home, so I have plenty of my own free time and will at least once a week just watch old games of basketball of players I'm interested in. Not highlight videos, but actual games. You learn a lot more about the players that way, because highlight videos can even make Shawn Bradley seem pretty good.
And I don't disagree with you on your "primes" list either, although again, Kareem's prime isn't exactly worlds better than Duncan's. That's how good these 4 players are that you listed. Duncan in his prime was pretty incredibly unstoppable.
Like I said, Kareem IMO is the 2nd greatest player ever, and is the only player that has a legitimate reason at this point to be in an argument with actually being greater than Jordan (although Lebron could change that soon). And I certainly would agree that as a player he was better than Duncan. But the question is, how much better? My personal argument would be that Kareem was a better offensive player (but not a ton better), while Timmy was a better defensive player (but not a ton better). And if you look at advanced stat metrics, they would pretty much uphold what my argument says. For instance, the career offensive and defensive rating for Kareem was 115 and 99. For Timmy its 110 and 95. Kareem is a 15 point difference, and Duncan is a 14 point difference. There are other offensive stats that are slightly in Kareem's favor such as TS%, EFG%, while there are some defensive stats in Timmy's favor such as rebound % and block %. And their WS/48 is not far off either. Kareem has the 7th best WS/48 of all time and Timmy is 12th all time.
So I think my claims are pretty much right, that Kareem is a better all-time basketball player, and certainly more accomplished. But Timmy isn't too far behind either. I don't think it would be ludicrous to say that if they were to play a 7 game series of 1-on-1, that it would probably be a toss up, with a slight edge to Kareem. Both are long, tall, play tough defense but are so skilled offensively that they would have a rough time really stopping each other. Kareem is a bit taller and longer, Duncan is a bit stronger, heavier, and more mobile. Kareem has the skyhook, Timmy has the uncanny ability to finish akward shots with contact (maybe the best post player I have ever seen at finishing through contact). So for this particular argument, I think in a head-to-head matchup, they are nearly a wash, because neither really has an extreme advantage over the other. The closest "extreme" advantage would be Kareem's skyhook, which is why I give him the slight edge.
I don't think your takes are wrong, I just don't think he " s on" Duncan in a matchup on the court in basically a glorified game of 1-on-1.
Lets break it down.
Of the 6 players Kobe has the better range than any of them. Kobe's mid-range game is 2nd only to MJ. Kobe's low post game is superior to Lebrons and Duncan's. Lebron has zero low post game even to this day. Of the 6 Lebron is the worse man to man defender unless he's guarding smaller players. Of the 6 Kobe has the most heart 2nd only to MJ. Of the 6 Kobe is the 3rd best passer. Kobe is 45th alltime in Assists which is significant for a 2 guard. Of the 6 Kobes had the 2nd greatest impact on the game. Finally of the 6 Kobe has the 2nd greatest skillset...Lebrons only case is he's the strongest and can dunk the hardest. That's it..
s maybe a bit strong but I am saying I feel he is clearly better. He faced better bigs, the league wasnt nearly as dilluted plus Kareem actually played his true position while duncan was a large PF rather than a true "big". Remember at PF Tim is the GOAT at center though still great he probably doesnt crack the top 5 and you could even argue in his "prime" though not as clutch even David was a better "center" just not as great on offense especially on the block.
I don't disagree with any of this at all.
Listen I was at that ASG last year and I literally sat 5 or so rows in the stands from the players bench.....you could actually hear some of the spirited conversations...as a side note I will tell you this...Coach Pop does not like Dwight Howard...not at all...I think it's personal...I think at one point you could hear Pop telling him to sit down and stop playing around...now to my main point...it's widely known that MJ and Kobe are the only two players in the history of the game to play the entire game like it's their last..both of them nikkas are just crazy like that...but it's also widely known that the last 5-7 min of an ASG is very serious business. Listen if you sat close enough to the scorers table (which I did) you could clearly here Kobe telling Lebron as they walked to center court: "You're not scoring again" and all the players on the bench just fell out laughing...they knew Kobe was serious....Kobe told coach Pop that he was going to guard Lebron 1 on 1 and he did...and he promptly shut Lebron down..Chris Bosh was trying his best to set screens for Lebron but to no avail...Kobe checked him straight up and you saw what happened...not just the one play but Kobe played him the length of the court and hounded him all the way..Bron couldn't even get off a shot...Jay Z and Drake was on the sidelines laughing their asses off...Kobe always be talking mad to Lebron and he's told Lebron on a couple of occasions that Lebron couldn't with him in his prime...it's just like when Kobe told him that he would beat him 1 on 1 in his sleep...Lebron couldn't say because he knows it's true...and word on the street is when they were in that 1st Olympics they played 1 on 1 in front of the other players and Kobe taxed that ass...this is the only real evidence we have but based on this it's safe to assume those rumors are true:
Lebron got burned so much he didn't even want to guard Kobe on the last play...he asked Tayshaun Prince to do it:
ohh and Tim Duncan would be pure unadulterated mince meat against Kareem...Duncan would get ate alive...no Contest it would be like Kobe vs Stephen Jackson...were Jackson talked all his for years while Kobe torched his ass...Kobe avg 28 ppg vs 12 ppg head to head vs Jackson..I'd imagine the same scenario if it was Kareem vs. Duncan..poor Duncan wouldn't have a chance...all of his shots would be jumpers banked off the backboard he would score in that paint...and had Duncan played during Hakeem's prime we wouldn't even know who Duncan was..Hakeem was also that much better as player than Duncan....no hyperbole just real talk
3 average shooters vs. MJ/Magic/Kareem combo?
not even Duncan could carry that sorry team to victory IMO
LMAO....even you aren't that dense. Duncan would be mince meat? At least he wouldn't get shut down by Austin Croshere like Kobrick did in the 2000 Finals.
I meant every word I said from the bottom of my heart...
is this a joke?3 average shooters vs. MJ/Magic/Kareem combo?
not even Duncan could carry that sorry team to victory IMO
Kobe is a better shooter than MJ
Lebron is a better shooter than Magic
Duncan is a better shooter than Kareem
the sky hook was a shot so I'd have to disagree with that one...even though Duncan's bank shot was nice it pales in comparison to the sky hook
Ok Killa let's take Kareem and Duncan out of it....who would win if it's
MJ and Kobe vs Lebron and Magic..I'm curious to hear your thoughts...
MJ and Kobe.
Whomever is being guarded by Magic should basically have the ball every play.
There shouldn't even be any curiosity. Anyone who says Lebron/Magic is re ed out of their minds.
You had me until the bolded. Only -2 points due to having 2/3 right.
um, jumpshooting?You had me until the bolded. Only -2 points due to having 2/3 right.
Duncan in his prime is pretty much money from 17 ft and in.
Skyhook is not a jumpshot.
Not in the playoffs they are not
Point still stands, the team of average shooters(Lebald, Rapist, Cuk) would get demolished
^that's cold blooded mane
tbh I would supplant Magic with Pippen. Put Pip on Lebron.
Lebald and Rapist would brick the team out of contention in a matter of minutes
Magic/MJ/Kareem would on them 9 times out of 10.
Sub in Shaq for Duncan and it's 6 times out of 10 for Kobe/Bron/Shaq
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