Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 42 of 42
  1. #26
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    They send in tiny troop amounts in the guise of the UN? Germany has very strict rules about the use of troops and is the biggest player in Europe. Europe is much more judicious with the use of violence imo.
    IIRC, Germany didn't even provide troops post-invasion. Italy and France certainly did. We have a lot of infrastructure in those countries. Italy has a big base that's very important for operations. They also provided a bunch of troops once the Saddam statue was down and we didn't know what to do next.

  2. #27
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    39,469
    That's the whole point. A country that's reluctant to provide troops just don't sends any kind of troops. All those troops, UN or otherwise, still put their heads on the line.
    Sure they do. But not as a part of a military operation to aid in the invasion of a country like Britain did in Iraq. They are UN peacekeepers. France supplied non UN troops in Afghanistan, ie French Military force.

  3. #28
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    Sure they do. But not as a part of a military operation to aid in the invasion of a country like Britain did in Iraq. They are UN peacekeepers. France supplied non UN troops in Afghanistan, ie French Military force.
    And France was all in going into Syria. So they're not actually reluctant when they buy into what you're selling, which is the point I'm trying to make. Italy also sent non-UN troops into Afghanistan AND Iraq. But post-invasion, because they wouldn't buy into the invasion to begin with.

  4. #29
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    Going back to the OP, Iraq will likely get back into the mess it was before we were there. They're just going to have millions death/displaced thanks to the conflict, and a reinforced hate for America. The whole 'sanctions' thing is indeed hypocritical, but we knew that a long time ago.

  5. #30
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    39,469
    Spain had trains bombed in Madrid too. Did they went in a range of anger and invaded Morocco? No. It's an excuse, IMO.

    I'm only speaking for myself, BTW. Just my impression.
    Britain has had the IRA blow up all kinds of things and they did not invade Ireland.

    It's not quite the same type of long historical bad blood.

    And no problem, good discussion. We all have our impressions.

  6. #31
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    Britain has had the IRA blow up all kinds of things and they did not invade Ireland.

    It's not quite the same type of long historical bad blood.

    And no problem, good discussion. We all have our impressions.
    The UK had the buses blown by these same guys later on. But Britain and the US are military interchangeable. What we say, goes, and vice-versa. That's why I pointed to Spain (which also had an incident with these same dudes), but it's much more independent.

  7. #32
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    39,469
    And France was all in going into Syria. So they're not actually reluctant when they buy into what you're selling, which is the point I'm trying to make. Italy also sent non-UN troops into Afghanistan AND Iraq. But post-invasion, because they wouldn't buy into the invasion to begin with.
    France was in on Afghanistan as well but soured quickly. Britain is really the only European country that can handle long conflicts in the name of NATO. We too have become much more reticent. Even without a long history of war after war. I expect our mentality to be a bit more passive will wane however. Time heals, even for the propensity to use violence.

  8. #33
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    39,469
    The UK had the buses blown by these same guys later on. But Britain and the US are military interchangeable. What we say, goes, and vice-versa. That's why I pointed to Spain (which also had an incident with these same dudes), but it's much more independent.
    Spain is a very shaky country still, the Basque separatists weigh heavily upon them.

  9. #34
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    39,469
    The UK had the buses blown by these same guys later on. But Britain and the US are military interchangeable. What we say, goes, and vice-versa. That's why I pointed to Spain (which also had an incident with these same dudes), but it's much more independent.
    Sort of I guess. We did not want to have much to do with the Falkland Islands. Not that there was much to be done.

  10. #35
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    France was in on Afghanistan as well but soured quickly. Britain is really the only European country that can handle long conflicts in the name of NATO. We too have become much more reticent. Even without a long history of war after war. I expect our mentality to be a bit more passive will wane however. Time heals, even for the propensity to use violence.
    The problem with Iraq is that it wasn't really a NATO operation. And the fact that we went to the UN with a ty lie didn't help. We already knew China and Russia were going to go thumbs down, that's always a given, but out of that meeting, only the UK (obviously) was the only country outwardly expressing support. You might not agree, but that invasion was amateur hour, IMO (not in the execution, but on the long term planning and selling).

    As far as America, I think people in general got tired of the neocons/warhawks. Don't know how long it's going to last, but like I said earlier, I think people underestimate how lasting is the damage dubya did, both to his party and on foreign relations.

    Spain is a very shaky country still, the Basque separatists weigh heavily upon them.
    They actually pretty much dismantled ETA. They have other problems now, mostly economic and there's still some non-violent secession talk which is pretty common from them.

    Sort of I guess. We did not want to have much to do with the Falkland Islands. Not that there was much to be done.
    The US was fairly involved in intelligence gathering, through Pinochet in Chile. Militarily, the UK didn't need much help, tbh.

  11. #36
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,536

    They actually pretty much dismantled ETA. They have other problems now, mostly economic and there's still some non-violent secession talk which is pretty common from them.

    The US was fairly involved in intelligence gathering, through Pinochet in Chile. Militarily, the UK didn't need much help, tbh.
    Iraq was a pure, 100% US operation. Any other countries were window dressing.

    UK couldn't have done the Falklands without US fueling its ships. US won the Falklands "war" as much as UK did.

    Spain, like USA, Iceland, Ireland, has a Banksters crisis. After Geman $Bs pumped into the Spanish property bubble, made their $Bs, it crashed, then the Germans demanded brutal austerity in Spain.

    Most Americans don't know what "neo-cons" are, and certainly don't know what their policies are, but they certainly are tired of wasting 1000s of (US) lives (foreign lives don't count) and losing $Ts while losing bull Repug wars.

  12. #37
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    39,469
    Probably should not even mention Spain as far as the ability to project a military force is concerned. It was a colonial power so the tendency is put them on the list.

  13. #38
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Post Count
    39,469
    Iraq was a pure, 100% US operation. Any other countries were window dressing.

    UK couldn't have done the Falklands without US fueling its ships. US won the Falklands "war" as much as UK did.
    Of course it was. So was Afghanistan from an inception point of view. Do you think France was going to go after the Taliban to give up Bin Laden on its own?

    Some have stated the British needed help and of course they got it. But they could have eventually got the job done alone. And they would have. It would have taken longer and been tougher but Argentina??? What the was Argentina going to do in the long run? It was a silly token invasion to begin with over so little. That's why the British got help, everyone wanted the silly thing to end as quickly as possible.

  14. #39
    Independent DMX7's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Post Count
    22,149
    BAMF ... that's why.

  15. #40
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,536
    btw, Rachel Maddow has a new show tonight on the war-criminal Repugs lying USA into Iraq

    http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/why-we-did-it

  16. #41
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    7,563
    I think that the OP is a good one. I never did understand why we got away with the invasion of Iraq. We were lied to as a nation. France kept saying "Let the weapons inspectors do their work". Cheney and W didn't want to wait. They used the nation's fear of 9/11 to do something that they wanted to do before 9/11 ever happened. It was a bad move on our part. And our treasury and our young people paid a terrible price for it.

  17. #42
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,536
    "I never did understand why we got away with the invasion of Iraq."

    US was scared less after 9/11, and the Repugs exploited the confidence NAIVE confidence, trust in the Repugs , and the solidarity of the world with USA after 9/11, in a time of crisis to invade Iraq while switching resources from Afghanistan.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •