OT: Kobe had 5 games with 60 or more tbh

[Thebesteva]

that list of records was posted a while ago, and a good chunk of them are false...

Its like I always say, I dont see many threads of people bashing Vince Carter because he isnt a legend. Kobe is a legend, his criticisms are very valid and he is a ball hog, who shot too much, was a horrible teammate, head, arrogant, etc etc etc. I understand how you can hate him, its just like how I despise Westbrook but OKC fans love him.


However, he retires a legend regardless. Its not even a debate outside this forum.

I always thought the criticism of Kobe needed a great big man to win was embarassing to even state. Every top 10 player had several great players on their team and without them they sucked. It wasnt till MJ got Phil Jackson and the right nucleus of players that really started his run, Magic had Kareem, Worthy, etc. Its actually amazing to me how all it took was putting a soft ass Pau Gasol in 2008 with a prime Kobe and he basically went to 3 NBA finals in a row. Thats not a coincedence

[spurraider21]

^its not necessarily that he needed a great big man to win... its that they were pretty ing embarrassing in the 3 years between the great big men. drove shaq out of town and proceed to miss the playoffs in 05. lose in the first round in 06. nearly win in the first round in 07, but that is tarnished by kobe blatantly quitting on his team in game 7 then demanding a trade.

pretty much nobody disputes that shaq was "the guy" during the 3peat (except bigalow), but in those 3 finals appearances you mentioned with Pau, he got 40.5% from the field in 08, 43.0% in 09, and and once again 40.5% in '10 in those finals series. the reason why kobe is so bashed is because he is also shoved into our face a lot. called the best clutch player of the era, the heir to jordan, the best player since jordan, blablabla. combine that with the fact that you have laker fans on this forum like the plague. its going to happen. and for me? i live in LA so its all i hear about all day/night from local media and friends

[whitemamba]

that list of records was posted a while ago, and a good chunk of them are false...

Spurraider21

[Kidd K]

that list of records was posted a while ago, and a good chunk of them are false...

Which ones exactly? Because I'm positive many of those are actually accurate. He's also closing in on most total shots missed for regular season career too. He would probably have that by now too if he didn't miss most of the season due to injury.

[spurraider21]

Which ones exactly? Because I'm positive many of those are actually accurate. He's also closing in on most total shots missed for regular season career too. He would probably have that by now too if he didn't miss most of the season due to injury.

worst shot attempt to assist ratio jumps out as obviously incorrect

[Brazil]

[ambchang]

Kobe is the greatest offensive player in the post-Jordan era, that's an acknowledged fact. That said, I don't understand all the Lebron nuthugging when Kobe has done much more at a younger age as far as offense is concerned.

I won't go so far. You can argue he's the greatest scorer post Jordan, but Nash (who ran entire systems that was very difficult to stop), Shaq (who bullied teams into submission), and Lebron (the first perimeter player who didn't require a dominant big to ring since Jordan) can make a strong case.

In fact, Kobe had a career high of 11.6 offensive win shares (05-06), and a career high offensive rating of 115. Those are great numbers, just not undisputedly the best numbers.

To make a comparison:
Nash - 10.8/124
Shaq - 12.1/120 (Shaq also led the league in OWS in two occasions)
Lebron - 14.6/125 (Led the league in OWS four times)


Even Tim Duncan had career highs of 10.7/116, and led the league in OWS once. (Kobe never led the league in either categories)

[Sybok]

These scoring anomalies will always favor the volume shooter because he's always going to be the one taking the shots, so when a team like the LOLcats gives up 60 in 3 quarters to someone, it's most likely going to be a volume shooter. Other teams have players who could do that as well, but why keep your guy out there if your team is up 30pts? Stat padding coaches will do that especially if they have no other talking points with the media than "Carmelo's scoring" or "Kobe's scoring". In years where a team is a compe or, sure there are some extremely lopsided box scores, but most of those are due to not having other options (Thunder) or having one guy who just got extremely hot from outside (Curry).

There's a reason we don't see 50pt games night in and night out by superstar players. They could not compete for a trophy if they did that much of the scoring for the team, because the opponent could just double them and dare someone else to beat them. You have to have that other person who can beat them when they do that. Some teams have more than one other person (Spurs, Heat, Thunder, Pacers, Portland, etc...).

I wouldn't put too much weight on scoring outbursts by individual players. It's silly to say Kobe wasn't one of the greatest scorers of all time, he certainly was and teams spent countless hours planning to defend against him, but on the other end he was just another player. That's what separates him from Lebron. Lebron is a monster on defense, and moves the ball as well as anyone in the league on offense. He's a bit rough around the edges, not nearly as polished on offense as Kobe or Mike, but he gets the ball to the rim and makes it work. He's deceptively quick and his athleticism for his size is probably unparalleled in the history of the game.

Another thing that separates Lebron from Kobe is that Lebron trusts his teammates. He might be the best option on the floor but he creates opportunities for others because he knows other teams are planning for him, not for the role guys. Kobe just takes the shot, 1 on 5, because he not only doesn't trust teammates, he doesn't even like them. He's probably the most selfish person to ever play in the NBA.

[ambchang]

I'll take Durant over Kobe for that le tbh. I don't give a about Kobe's 35 PPG on that ty team that didn't go anywhere.

Durant: 5 straight years of 28 or more PPG

Kobe: 7 years total of 28 or more PPG in 3x as many seasons.

Durant career PPG: 27.2 PPG (trending up)
Kobe career PPG: 25.5 PPG (no downtrend YET, but should be starting now)

Durant career TS%%: .599
Kobe career TS%: .555

Durant career eFG%: .521
Kobe career eFG%: .487

Durant career FG%: .479
Kobe career FG%: .454

Durant career 3pt%: .377
Kobe career 3pt%: .335

Durant career 2pt%: .509
Kobe career 2pt%: .483

Durant career FT%: .882
Kobe career FT%: .838

Tbh, Kobe is worse than Durant in every single scoring category. Literally every single one.

Excellent points Kidd K, I forgot about Durant.

If you look at OWS and ORtg comparisons between Kobe and Durant, it's not even a comparison.

Durant, after only his 6th season, has already had a season of 13.6 OWS and another of 11.1. This year, he is so far leading the league in OWS, with an extremely high 11.3 after only 60 games. The reason he didn't have more double digit OWS seasons is because of the lockout season.

In terms of ORtg, he had seasons of 123, 122 and 118, all higher than Kobe's career high.

[Kidd K]

Excellent points Kidd K, I forgot about Durant.

If you look at OWS and ORtg comparisons between Kobe and Durant, it's not even a comparison.

Durant, after only his 6th season, has already had a season of 13.6 OWS and another of 11.1. This year, he is so far leading the league in OWS, with an extremely high 11.3 after only 60 games. The reason he didn't have more double digit OWS seasons is because of the lockout season.

In terms of ORtg, he had seasons of 123, 122 and 118, all higher than Kobe's career high.

Yeah offensive rating too. . .forgot to post that as well. Durant is clearly better than Kobe offensively. Sure someone can say "well he's a lot taller" as an excuse, but it doesn't really matter, he's the better scorer regardless.

Kobe has higher APG so far but Durant has corrected that hole in his game the last couple seasons. We'll see if Durant can sustain the 5 APG going forward with Westbrook on the floor. He had 4 1/2 per game last season though even with him, so I think it's possible for him.

worst shot attempt to assist ratio jumps out as obviously incorrect

You said "a good chunk of them are false" though, you mentioned just one which should've been worded "nearly the worst", or "fewest points scored on over 30 FGAs with no assists" instead to be accurate. Which other ones are incorrect for it to be a "good chunk"?

[spurraider21]

I can sit down and do the research again when I bored, but that exact list had been posted before and I'm sure a handful were false