Bucks: Is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar the most underrated player of all time?

[ambchang]

Let me repeat myself. Kareem was 38 in '86, and he still managed to keep up with Olajuwon and Sampson! To really see how impressive that is, you'd have to compare what the other legendary centers did at that age. Shaq at 38 averaged 9 pts and 5 rebounds, Wilt retired at 36, and a 38 year old Hakeem averaged 12 and 7. By comparison, Kareem averaged 23 points and 6 rebounds in 86! That's damn impressive!

No question he aged very well, and he could always score, but his defense and rebounding was horrible when he was old. He was still very good at 38, all-star good, but he was not schooling Hakeem then, it was the other way around. Hakeem was bullying his old ass then.

[Killakobe81]

Come on man, on one hand you say I try to troll all the time, then you start pull Kobe out of thin air for no reason to bait me.

Just don't put Kobe and Jordan/Kareem in the same sentence. They are not the same.

Jordan was a bully, and he forced people to conform to him behind close doors. Some would lash out (Cartright/Kerr), and Jordan will never cross them again, but some just crumble and disappear (Dennis Hopson). He uses the media once in a while to push blame onto Krause, but overall, he deals with his stuff in house.

Kareem doesn't give two s about his teammates. He just wanted to be left alone when he wanted to, but praised as God around the clock.

Kobe on the other hand is about as fake tough guy as you can get. Goes after Shaq but through the media and management, "leaking" videos of rants of trading Bynum, talking about his team in front of the media when MVPau and Dwight was around. He's the guy who was enabled by management because of his marketability.

Who was trying to bait you? honestly?
You are the one with the Kobe complex ...
We were talking about assholes.
If you want to create a tier or ranking of assholes, go ahead.
Does not matter to me at all what kind of asshole they were or who was the bigger one.
All 3 are great all 3 in some ways could be called assholes.
Again why does that matter? What the does that have to with hoops?
I dont care about any of that tbh, so in future posts directed at me, you are wasting your breath.

someone asked a question (citizen) brought up MJ and Kareem as assholes and I, a Kobe fan threw him in as a asshole.
Doesnt that show I can be unbiased. I wasnt comparing Kobe to MJ or Kareem in a good light.
But again WGAF?
You take Kobe way too seriously ...but yet you dont hate him ..so full of ...yet we were going so well talking hoops today.

[Thread]

You take Kobe way too seriously ...but yet you dont hate him ..so full of ...yet we were going so well talking hoops today.

Killa 4 square with his brothers. Always steadfast.

[ambchang]

Who was trying to bait you? honestly?
You are the one with the Kobe complex ...
We were talking about assholes.
If you want to create a tier or ranking of assholes, go ahead.
Does not matter to me at all what kind of asshole they were or who was the bigger one.
All 3 are great all 3 in some ways could be called assholes.
Again why does that matter? What the does that have to with hoops?
I dont care about any of that tbh, so in future posts directed at me, you are wasting your breath.

someone asked a question (citizen) brought up MJ and Kareem as assholes and I, a Kobe fan threw him in as a asshole.
Doesnt that show I can be unbiased. I wasnt comparing Kobe to MJ or Kareem in a good light.
But again WGAF?
You take Kobe way too seriously ...but yet you dont hate him ..so full of ...yet we were going so well talking hoops today.

You accuse me trolling Kobestans, then just pull Kobe out of thin air.

The only commonality between Kobe and Kareem was that they were Lakers

The only commonality between Kobe and Jordan was they were both SGs

Kobe ain't even enough of an asshole to be compared to Jordan and Kareem.

[Thread]

You accuse me trolling Kobestans, then just pull Kobe out of thin air.

The only commonality between Kobe and Kareem was that they were Lakers

The only commonality between Kobe and Jordan was they were both SGs

Kobe ain't even enough of an asshole to be compared to Jordan and Kareem.

Kaaaaaaaaaaablllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!! Amb just blew his stack.

ha, ha.

[Killakobe81]

You accuse me trolling Kobestans, then just pull Kobe out of thin air.

The only commonality between Kobe and Kareem was that they were Lakers

The only commonality between Kobe and Jordan was they were both SGs

Kobe ain't even enough of an asshole to be compared to Jordan and Kareem.

Wow Amb's hate blinds him so much that I cannot even call Kobe an asshole ...

Anyone else, is it a stretch, reach or out of bounds to bring up Kobe when talking about famous NBA assholes?
I'm with Thread ... Amb has truly lost it.
I guess only he can criticize Kobe

[Clipper Nation]

Amb dropping more truthbombs, bringing great basketball discussion as always, much like MVPau brought two alpha rings to the Lakers

[Killakobe81]

Amb dropping more truthbombs, bringing great basketball discussion as always, much like MVPau brought two alpha rings to the Lakers

CN with the "tea bagging goods" as usual.

[ambchang]

Kaaaaaaaaaaablllllllllllllaaaaaaaaaaaaam!!! Amb just blew his stack.

ha, ha.

Grown ups are talking, you ST piss bucket should stay out of it.

Wow Amb's hate blinds him so much that I cannot even call Kobe an asshole ...

Anyone else, is it a stretch, reach or out of bounds to bring up Kobe when talking about famous NBA assholes?
I'm with Thread ... Amb has truly lost it.
I guess only he can criticize Kobe

Not really about the criticizing of Kobe, but more about bringing in Kobe when it has absolutely nothing to do with him. Your "criticism" of him was but a thinly veiled attempt to talk about his compe ive fire and how he would go out and do whatever it takes to win, including acting like a jackass. Truth being, he just hides behind management throwing arrows because he knew how much marketing dollars he is bringing in.

[Killakobe81]

Grown ups are talking, you ST piss bucket should stay out of it.



Not really about the criticizing of Kobe, but more about bringing in Kobe when it has absolutely nothing to do with him. Your "criticism" of him was but a thinly veiled attempt to talk about his compe ive fire and how he would go out and do whatever it takes to win, including acting like a jackass. Truth being, he just hides behind management throwing arrows because he knew how much marketing dollars he is bringing in.

Not it really wasn't ...now you are projecting. I aint Kool.
Yes, I do think the other things are true ... but it doesnt matter he is an asshole which was the topic at hand... Or at least he seems like one, has admitted as much in interviews but I dont know the man.

Again how is calling someone an asshole a compliment?
Wast meant to be one when I agreed with others who painted Kareem or Mj with the same brush.
YOU overreacted, it happens ... be a man apologize or admit you were wrong and move on ... or don't. I honestly wasnt trying to bring Kobe in for another purpose. He is a asshole. end of story.
But you derailed our thread, not me.
I apologize did not realize just mentioning Kobe as a asshole was such a trigger for you.
Just because you throw MVPau to get a reaction doesnt mean when I call Kobe a asshole I am trying to do the same ...

[Thread]

Grown ups are talking, you ST piss bucket should stay out of it.

There goes yer stack again. Nothin' but a soreheaded 6'er

ha, ha.

[ambchang]

There goes yer stack again. Nothin' but a soreheaded 6'er

ha, ha.

It was a level-headed advice filled with facts.

KK81 and I are both grown ups.
You are the piss bucket of ST.
You should stay out of this.

One simple sentence, three facts.

Not sure how it would be blowing my stack.

[ambchang]

Not it really wasn't ...now you are projecting. I aint Kool.
Yes, I do think the other things are true ... but it doesnt matter he is an asshole which was the topic at hand... Or at least he seems like one, has admitted as much in interviews but I dont know the man.

Again how is calling someone an asshole a compliment?
Wast meant to be one when I agreed with others who painted Kareem or Mj with the same brush.
YOU overreacted, it happens ... be a man apologize or admit you were wrong and move on ... or don't. I honestly wasnt trying to bring Kobe in for another purpose. He is a asshole. end of story.
But you derailed our thread, not me.
I apologize did not realize just mentioning Kobe as a asshole was such a trigger for you.
Just because you throw MVPau to get a reaction doesnt mean when I call Kobe a asshole I am trying to do the same ...

It's like going in an interview, somebody ask, "What is your biggest weakness" (which is a pretty stupid question to begin with), then the interviewee said, "Well, I am too much of a perfectionist. And I tend not to work well with lazy teammates who refuse to pull their own weight."

It's a thinly veiled mask in saying how good you are, and I never hire these insincere people.

As for MVPau, just trying to preach and have him not be underrated. Really a superstar being labeled as a beta, by his own fans nonetheless.

[Killakobe81]

It's like going in an interview, somebody ask, "What is your biggest weakness" (which is a pretty stupid question to begin with), then the interviewee said, "Well, I am too much of a perfectionist. And I tend not to work well with lazy teammates who refuse to pull their own weight."

It's a thinly veiled mask in saying how good you are, and I never hire these insincere people.

As for MVPau, just trying to preach and have him not be underrated. Really a superstar being labeled as a beta, by his own fans nonetheless.

I get your analogy but again I was not being insincere. We have done the Kobe vs Duncan dance enough times I told u I was not going there. On occasion I call out your hypocrisy or trollin but largely left that subject alone. If you don't believe me here don't know what to tell you ...except that would make me a troll and you took the bait. I suck at trolling and thought we were doing well with the hoops talk ... You took it off track with a bit of Kobe hate and I already apologized but I admit it was a snarky one ... On my two kids it was not a veiled attempt or whatever made up stuff you called it. As a man can't give more of my word over the internets. Take it for as sincerely as you wish. Or dont. Can we get back on topic now?

[ambchang]

I get your analogy but again I was not being insincere. We have done the Kobe vs Duncan dance enough times I told u I was not going there. On occasion I call out your hypocrisy or trollin but largely left that subject alone. If you don't believe me here don't know what to tell you ...except that would make me a troll and you took the bait. I suck at trolling and thought we were doing well with the hoops talk ... You took it off track with a bit of Kobe hate and I already apologized but I admit it was a snarky one ... On my two kids it was not a veiled attempt or whatever made up stuff you called it. As a man can't give more of my word over the internets. Take it for as sincerely as you wish. Or dont. Can we get back on topic now?

No harm done, and no need to apologize. You are one of the few actual Laker fans here (knowledgeable at that), but we will just never agree on the Kobe legacy.

It really is a shame that we can't see eye to eye on this.

As for my Kobe hate, I honestly don't hate him, I am just there trying to rebalance the universal with all the Kobe overrating.

[benefactor]

Some solid work done by ambchang in this thread. Every now and then, actually basketball discussion happens in the NBA forum.

[Killakobe81]

No harm done, and no need to apologize. You are one of the few actual Laker fans here (knowledgeable at that), but we will just never agree on the Kobe legacy.

It really is a shame that we can't see eye to eye on this.

As for my Kobe hate, I honestly don't hate him, I am just there trying to rebalance the universal with all the Kobe overrating.

Im going with Jay-Z on this one ...

"we dont believe you, you need more PEOPLE" ...but like I said I have no interest in that debate we disagree on that but I enjoy our hoops talks. We do agree on Kareem for the most part ...

[Killakobe81]

and that is what the subject was ...

[LkrFan]

dude you had your chance to destroy Celtics dynasty in 62, your Selvy the bed on dat JS with 5 sec left...

Well before 28 there was 5 if not for dat 5 I would be sitting on a -1 instead of a +1

You had your chance but Baylor 61 points were not enough to bring you home, that's your cross

It took you an hour to look that up? -10 points. Russell won in an era that was worst than a team claiming a le they won during a 50-game seasn. They had, what, 8 teams, and no free agency? GTF of here son. Your no better than FuzzyLabia.

Like I was saying... I wish they played in the same era so that KAJ had the opportunity to bust Russell's balloon knot. It would be like Prime Shaq vs. The Red Rocket! or Tiago Splitter

[Sybok]

By your logic, Tammy barely cracks the top 100 - for bigs. -10 points, farmer.

Who's Tammy? Is that your fat be@ner wife?

[LkrFan]

Who's Tammy? Is that your fat be@ner wife?

[Clipper Nation]

It took you an hour to look that up? -10 points. Russell won in an era that was worst than a team claiming a le they won during a 50-game seasn. They had, what, 8 teams, and no free agency? GTF of here son. Your no better than FuzzyLabia.

Like I was saying... I wish they played in the same era so that KAJ had the opportunity to bust Russell's balloon knot. It would be like Prime Shaq vs. The Red Rocket! or Tiago Splitter

Edgardo maaaaaad as that Russell used to push the Lakers' in

[Sybok]

If so, don't let her here you calling her a "big". I mean, I realize she cannot speak English fluently, but I bet she can up a plate of nachos.

[LkrFan]

Edgardo maaaaaad as that Russell used to push the Lakers' in

- not really. I wasn't born then to see it, like DMC's old decrepit ass. I have been around for the last 10 Laker les vs. Celtics 4 les. So as far as I'm concerned, Lakers 10, Celtics 4.

[Clipper Nation]

- not really. I wasn't born then to see it, like DMC's old decrepit ass. I have been around for the last 10 Laker les vs. Celtics 4 les. So as far as I'm concerned, Lakers 10, Celtics 4.

Revising history because Russell whooped the Lakers' ass every year.... much like how you revise history by claiming Kirby was the alpha instead of MVPau