USGS: Recent Earthquakes “Almost Certainly Manmade”

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Who is saying fracking makes us safer?

I said that some geologists had presented ideas on causing smaller earthquakes to relieve stress buildup in fractures.
It is interesting.
Read again.

Relieve is just a characterization. It will redistribute weight but that is not always going to be good for the stability of a system.

It's wishful thinking and an untestable hypothesis. I can see why WC would love the idea.

[pgardn]

Jesus Christ...

Note to self: Sidebars of interest and sarcasm on ST must come with a warning label.

And again, the ideas never mentioned fracking as fracking is relatively new. The possibility of using explosives was suggested once they had a good way of measuring stress buildup in fault zones, which is far from being reliable on its own. For Gods sake we cannot even predict earthquakes. So because WC later posts drivel, my aside is taken as some sort of benefit of fracking by others...

This is also interesting.

[pgardn]

Relieve is just a characterization. It will redistribute weight but that is not always going to be good for the stability of a system.

It's wishful thinking and an untestable hypothesis. I can see why WC would love the idea.

What the are you saying?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What the are you saying?

I am saying that an increase is just as likely as a decrease as to the stability of a system when you arbitrarily change the load.

I am not saying that you think like WC. I get that you are simply keeping an open mind. WC latched onto the outcome that benefits his master immediately though it is an aside.

[pgardn]

I am saying that an increase is just as likely as a decrease as to the stability of a system when you arbitrarily change the load.

I am not saying that you think like WC. I get that you are simply keeping an open mind. WC latched onto the outcome that benefits his master immediately though it is an aside.

Understood.

[MannyIsGod]

fracking adds to underground pressures, and the liquids "lubricate" the slippages

No it does not.

[MannyIsGod]

And there are thoughts among some geologists is that slippage is good if it causes small earthquakes that would otherwise be huge. Again, relief in the buildup of potential energy. Release it incrementally. Now of course this is not why we frack, but it is interesting.

The added pressure is the match to burn a smaller fire... An analogy.

I'd be interested to read links to geologists who think this as it is directly opposed to main thinking and the simple math dealing with EQ magnitude.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/top...ts_fantasy.php

[MannyIsGod]

In a lot of places, like around DFW area, there is NO history of geological instability, until fracking started. Same in other stable but fracked-up regions.

Earthquakes don't mean an area is "geologically unstable". Especially not small ones.

[MannyIsGod]

Wastewater injection is not fracking. You can frack all day and night and never use waste water injection wells. The issue here isn't fracking, its waste water injection.

[pgardn]

I'd be interested to read links to geologists who think this as it is directly opposed to main thinking and the simple math dealing with EQ magnitude.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/top...ts_fantasy.php

This is exactly why the USGS put up a rebuttal in FAQ. The energy necessary was considered way too high with unknown results. I clearly was not the only one who read about this if it is a FAQ.I know it had been suggested, but I don't know where I read it. Believe it or not.

[pgardn]

Wastewater injection is not fracking. You can frack all day and night and never use waste water injection wells. The issue here isn't fracking, its waste water injection.

Oh come on. It's one way to get rid of waste water produced by what?
Even though I'm not sure if Boots knew this.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh come on. It's one way to get rid of waste water produced by what?
Even though I'm not sure if Boots knew this.

Lots of things produce waste water that is then stored through waste water injection. Its not a fracking issue. The thing is that the media has latched onto this as a fracking issue and thus terrible scientific reporting zeros in on that.

http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwater/uic/

[MannyIsGod]

This is exactly why the USGS put up a rebuttal in FAQ. The energy necessary was considered way too high with unknown results. I clearly was not the only one who read about this if it is a FAQ.I know it had been suggested, but I don't know where I read it. Believe it or not.

The idea has been around for decades. Its not new and its never gained traction among geologists because geologists can do simple math. You said there were geologists saying this. I now believe you don't know who was saying this but you certainly don't have a link to a quote of a geologists saying this.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but I get tired of reading bull like this.

[Wild Cobra]

Aren't most earthquakes occurring far deeper than the drilling?

[pgardn]

Lots of things produce waste water that is then stored through waste water injection. Its not a fracking issue. The thing is that the media has latched onto this as a fracking issue and thus terrible scientific reporting zeros in on that.

http://water.epa.gov/type/groundwater/uic/

In the same amounts as fracking?

[pgardn]

Aren't most earthquakes occurring far deeper than the drilling?

As I understand it they can be at many levels. But apparently the results of fairly deep ones can be seen on the fractured surface in California. This is not my field though.

[MannyIsGod]

Also, I should be more clear. Its a waste water injection issue in specific locations. There are tens of thousands of waste water injection wells out there and there are a handful of situations where this may or may not be the cause of an EQ. Added stress or redistribution of stress that is going to cause an EQ needs a specific set of cir stances in place. The waste water injection might have been the straw that broke the camels back, but it alone certainly wasn't the provider of all the stress released by a magnitude 5+ EQ. In other words, it may have sped up an EQ that was going to happen but did it outright cause it? No.

[MannyIsGod]

In the same amounts as fracking?

That I don't know. But even then, do you think the vast majority of injection wells associated with fracking activities are causing earthquakes?

And on top of that, can you conduct fracking without the use of waste water injection wells?

[pgardn]

The idea has been around for decades. Its not new and its never gained traction among geologists because geologists can do simple math. You said there were geologists saying this. I now believe you don't know who was saying this but you certainly don't have a link to a quote of a geologists saying this.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but I get tired of reading bull like this.

Pardon me but I did not know this. It was new to me.
I really don't care about what you believe about me. I read about biologists who claim evolution has not occurred so it does not surprise me if there are gadfly geologists as well.
People can lie about many different things on a board like this.
I understand this, so whatever.

[pgardn]

That I don't know. But even then, do you think the vast majority of injection wells associated with fracking activities are causing earthquakes?

And on top of that, can you conduct fracking without the use of waste water injection wells?

I think I read a statistical study, not geological theories, that claimed a high correlation. SMU? but I can't remember.

As I understand it waste water can be put into some sort of drying beds as well.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah you can let waste water evaporate in lined pools which leaves behind the containment but lined pools leak. Waste water injection is preferred because its less messy and (I think) relatively cheap. There's definitely a lower chance of contamination with this method.

[Winehole23]

Manny with the goods, per usual.

[pgardn]

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...feb41a235d.pdf
There are many more. I can't read them all.

[pgardn]

Also, I should be more clear. Its a waste water injection issue in specific locations. There are tens of thousands of waste water injection wells out there and there are a handful of situations where this may or may not be the cause of an EQ. Added stress or redistribution of stress that is going to cause an EQ needs a specific set of cir stances in place. The waste water injection might have been the straw that broke the camels back, but it alone certainly wasn't the provider of all the stress released by a magnitude 5+ EQ. In other words, it may have sped up an EQ that was going to happen but did it outright cause it? No.

This is obvious.

Was going to happen?
When?

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...feb41a235d.pdf
There are many more. I can't read them all.

You linked a non peer reviewed article here by a guy with a BA in Philosophy.

Pretty much an opinion piece.