You care to post an argument countering it?
Ginobili brings - Leadership, Play-making, outside shooting.
Green brings - Incredible defense, outside shooting.
9 times out of 10 Ginobili's would be more valuable. But when the Spurs have other great leaders/play-makers/outside shooters on the bench such as Belinelli, Boris Diaw, and Patty Mills - Ginobili really just becomes the icing that makes San Antonio's bench the best in the league. Take away Green and who's going to guard Stephen Curry? or what about CP3? Damian Lillard? At least the Spurs would have some back-ups if they somehow lost Manu.
Sure Ginobili is the better player, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying the Spurs have a couple of other players in comparable mold, while Green is a one-of-a-kind 3&D player. Lose him and they're straight up ed.
Not doubting Green's defensive prowess, but I still believe Mills' bench scoring has more of an impact on the Spurs' ability to win games. Does anyone actually have defensive stats for when Green is playing vs when he's out? Or our record with Marco in the starting lineup?
Tony is not "that guy."
If Tony would have played even 3 quarters of his regular season play in the Finals last year, the Spurs would have been champs.
Instead, as usual, it was TD doing it all by himself: per par.
TD is "that guy" for the Spurs.
Parker will never be "that guy."
How about game 1 with the shot-clock beating leaner?
I'm sure you remember game 6 when we lost our 5 point lead, right? Do you remember what originally got us up by 5? Tony Parker hit 2 ridiculous shots, at least one in Lebron's face. While nursing a hamstring injury to boot.
So don't go blaming Tony. Tim used to be the go to crunch time option, but you haven't been paying attention if you think he still is. That's no disrespect to Timmy either, I mean 3 years ago when the spurs changed their offensive style they admitted it was now focused on Tony. If Tim was still our number 1 scoring option we'd be running 4-down every possession, and would probably be getting bounced in the second round if we were lucky.
They need to edit their list to add someone!
11) Aaron Baynes
T9) Marco Belinelli
T9) Danny Green
8) Patty Mills
7) Tiago Splitter
6) Boris Diaw
T4) Austin Daye
T4) Manu Ginobili
3) Kawhi Leonard
T1) Tim Duncan
T1) Tony Parker
Ludicrous. The Spurs don't need a third (actually fourth) bench scorer scorer over their best guard defender. And Mills ha been awful as a two-guard this year, so him playing with Parker doesn't make sense.
If Mills makes a meaningful contribution to the Spurs run, they'll probably lose.
Who said anything about Mills playing the two guard or pairing him with Parker?
If he can't play with Parker, then he'd only get the 7-10 minutes behind Tony. Are you really arguing that 10 minutes of Mills is worth more than 32 of Green?
I expect Mills to play 15-18 minutes a game as Parker's backup. Green's been benched more times this year than Mills for his inconsistency, which is why he's only averaged 24 minutes per game. Yes, I'm arguing that Mills 15 minutes off the bench is more valuable or crucial to the Spurs than Green's 24 minutes.
If Green's out, you simply insert Manu or Belli in his place, and the team would be fine. If Mills is out, the Spurs have to rely on Cojo, who doesn't give anything close to what Mills gives on offense and doesn't mesh well with the other bench players, statistically speaking.
Btw, Manu and Belli don't exclusively play with the bench, which is why they get more minutes and have a higher scoring average than Mills. Guess who in the starting lineup they usually sub on for?
You need to do your math better. Mills isn't getting 15 minutes in the playoffs, and Green isn't getting 24. 10-12 is a generous amount not counting blowouts. No way Parker plays 30 minutes in any important playoff game.
Green was only benched because Pop was tinkering with rotations. He got his job back for the stretch run because Pop saw how important he was. Mills gets benched periodically by Joseph whenever the team needs defense. At least Green gets pulled for a member of the Big Three. Mills gets the hook for a third-stringer.
The fact is, if the Spurs play an important series, the bench as we know it is not going to receive time. The starters, Manu and Diaw will get almost all of the minutes, and Beli or Mills will get the rest along with Ayres/Baynes/Bonner. Bench scoring really isn't that important in the playoffs. Glass-cannon players rarely have any impact because starters play more minutes so limitations bench players can hide in the RS get exposed. Mills being horrible on defense is already a bigger problem than people realize; it may be unbearable in the playoffs.
That's a lame counter. No one exclusively plays with the bench or starters. That's why they call it a rotation.
1, Enrique
2. Timmy
3. Turnobili
4. Kawhi
5. Splitter
6. Verde
7. Boris
8. Marco
9. Patty
IMO.......
How many times has Pop relied on the bench to get the Spurs back in the game? This season, we've seen Pop do something that we've rarely seen him do in the past: he rides the hot hand. If Mills comes in hot, he usually gets kept on for a few more minutes. His superb performances against the Clippers and the Blazers will surely give Pop the confidence to use him more in the playoffs.
You can say that Mills is horrible on defense, but that doesn't change the fact that Parker is just as bad, if not worse, than Mills on the defensive end. Mills has a better defensive rating than Parker, and most posters on here would agree that he puts a lot more effort into fighting through screens than Parker does. Parker's definitely going to struggle to defend Dragic, Westbrook, Lillard, Curry, Reggie Jackson, James Harden, Jeremy Lin, and pretty much all of the other guards from play-off teams, but that's not going to stop him from playing big minutes. Last thing to factor in is Parker's health. Will his body withstand 38+ minutes of playing time? He hasn't exactly been injury-free, and Pop knows better than to play him all out every game even if it's the playoffs.
Danny Green wasn't just benched because Pop was 'tinkering with rotations'. He was benched because of defensive mistakes and because of his inconsistent shooting. Some nights he'd be 1/9, and the Spurs just went with Marco to finish the game.
Last edited by Boomersgold; 03-25-2014 at 02:01 AM.
It's the truth. Mills doesn't get as much playing time because he's Parker's backup. Manu and Bellineli play the 2/3 and sub in for Green and Kawhi. Parker> Green and Kawhi in terms of his importance to the team.
I disagree. Errors tend to be very important in the playoffs.
It's not the truth. Parker is the last to sub in, which means Mills plays with the starters right before then.
Paragraph by paragraph:
I don't remember Pop ever relying on his bench to come back in a playoff game, especially his full bench. The closest he came to that is pulling all the starters in the first quarter of Game Three of the WCF last season, but that was to motivate the starters, who got the lead back when they came in.
Don't even try to compare Parker and Mills. First off, Parker is still better than Patty defending despite the effort difference. Second, Parker's MUCH better offensively. I know Patty homers don't want to believe that, but it's true. Mills can't get quality shots on his own. That's more important for a PG than being able to hit an open three. Finally, Parker's poor defense is masked in the first unit by Green protecting him. When you start talking about increasing Patty's minutes and decreasing Green's, you're disrupting the guard defense tremendously.
Pop doesn't care about Green's shooting. He's said that numerous times. He only cares if Green plays hard defense. Has he had lapses? Yes. So has Leonard. But they're nothing compared to the ones Mills has. Pop will take Green out and coach him up a bit, but he doesn't just replace him in the rotation like he will with Mills. Pop has a new two-guard in Beli, and he's spent the season trying to work him in. After the team collapsed defensively, he put Green back into the SL and hasn't looked back.
You act like you're about to see your first playoffs. You keep assuming that it's going to be like the regular season. It doesn't work that way. There's still a chance the Pop benches Mills for Joseph. You can tell he wants to. The things Mills does best aren't emphasized in the post-season, and the things he does poorly are. It's pretty much the opposite with Green.
Rofl boomersgold
Rubbish, tbh.
Because what Pop's done in the past with a younger Tony, Manu and Duncan and a completely different roster somehow has an affect on how he coaches the Spurs this season, right? This season's bench is the best bench the Spurs have ever had. Pop's said this, the media's written about it, and the data fully backs it up. They lead the league in points per game at 45.3 points per night, almost 10 points above what their bench averaged in 06/07, field goal percentage per game (~49) and assists per game.
You keep telling yourself that, bud. Parker's never been a defensive ace, and his age and injury history have only made him an even worse defender. Not disputing that Parker's the better offensive player. Mills really only has his speed and his long-range shooting. Parker, whilst a subpar shooter, is excellent at getting to the rim and has better handles, and therefore ball control.
And they're nothing compared to the lapses that Parker has (see defensive stats). Mills works hard on defense, and his weight loss has helped him tremendously with his ability to play D. He hasn't been benched at all this season; he's played EVERY game as the backup PG. I'd feel perfectly comfortable playing Beli or Manu in place of Green. Does Green's supposed 'elite defense' actually have an effect on the game? What's our win/loss record without him?
It's ridiculous to think that a coach would ignore things like the team's roster, ages, injuries etc, and continue playing the team the exact same way that he has in previous seasons. Let's just agree to disagree. All I'm saying is that our bench (Mills and Belinelli, especially) is miles ahead last season's second unit, and that they could play a more prominent role in the playoffs. You're underestimating their potential to be game changers, tbh.
Last edited by Boomersgold; 03-25-2014 at 09:56 AM.
Patty homers are out of control.
Give Patty all the credit in the world for his work ethic and team-first at ude, but arguing that he's more important to the team than Green is just silly. Even more so in the context of the upcoming playoffs.
I'm the only one on this thread arguing Patty > Green. Obviously, I'm not the only one that holds this opinion as the person who wrote the bleacherreport article thinks the same. The only difference is that he gets paid to write articles, and we're just fans debating in an online forum.
Garrett Jochnau
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