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Malik Hairston syndrome. This will pass eventually.
All of those guys are bigs or would be in today's NBA. Dirk has always been a poor defender, and Duncan was always serviceable at best on the perimeter. Can't speak about Bird, but the NBA was different when he played.
Exstatic's point stands. Physically, Daye is very limited as a defender. His length should allow him to contest jump shots well, but he isn't keeping anyone in front of them, and he's too weak in the post. He's best used as a situational player not unlike how Mills was used last season.
Malik Hairston syndrome. This will pass eventually.
Daye looked very slow in that game against the Sixers... but he still scored 22 points, 6 rebounds, 2 blocks and 2 steals.
He looks a little bit faster in the D-league clip with the Toros.
Watch the clip with him in Detroit, seems to be quicker.
So playing slow and deliberate makes him better? Does all that length compensate for a lack of speed?
Ducnan barely gets off the ground, but he contests a lot of shots. Given a choice of length versus athleticism in defense, I'll choose length.
Young also posted him up. Several times. Easily. If you're categorizing Young as a SF, then Daye is getting posted up by SFs.
Daye either needs to get MUCH quicker AND faster (not happening) and play SF, or he needs to put on 25-30 solid muscle pounds by September, not getting caught using roids, and play PF.
Or he could stay exactly how he is and be a serviceable rotation player as a stretch 4/situational 3. His length and IQ will make up somewhat for his disadvantage in strength or speed.
Don't get me wrong, I love getting excited about new Spurs' players and Daye showed why he was drafted 15th in 2009. He also showed why he hasn't played much in his NBA career. Hopefully Pop can figure out a way to use him that takes advantage of his strengths and hides his weaknesses. His length should help. Daye's effort is certainly there and he's been fun to watch.
I would suggest playing him as the center for small ball lineups. With Kawhi at the PF:
Small ball line-up: Mills-Green-Belinelli-Leonard-Daye
Everybody's gonna hang around the 3 while Kawhi postups - similar to a 4-Down Postup play for Tim Duncan
and lol at Daye. Kid is slower than Bonner
probably not, Bosh is a lot more physical than Durant. I'm not saying Bosh is a banger, but compared to Durant, he most certainly is. Durant is the absolute definition of a finesse player.
Daye did a decent job on defense. Give credit where it's due. Whether or not he keeps this level of play up is another story, but he played a very good gamon both sides of the ball. .....next game.
If the guy has the foot speed and the discipline to not bite on pump fakes, he could really be another good option to throw on Durant, Parsons, Harden, Ibaka. All guys who kill us with their mid-range games.
Now, I am not saying the lane agility test is worthless...it's not. All measureables are useful in adding to the pot when making a soupy conclusion, but people put far too much emphasis on a number here and there. You can't throw all of "Lane Agility Test" and "3/4 time" into the pot and call it a soup. It takes far more ingredients. Again, it's an unfair weighting of the cons uent attributes that make a player. It is how one team trades for value over another. One team may see how certain disadvantages are not as relevant as have been deemed by the masses, and discover novel or not-so-novel ways to utilize a player that has been discarded. Good thing RC and Pop were not weighing Kawhi's lane agility time too heavily during the draft. And, good thing maybe other front offices were? Heck, Kawhi's time isn't even fast for guys his same height, but we're comparing Daye to shorter dudes, despite a probable positive correlation (I didn't not calculate "r", just assumed it from looking at trends and seeming common sense, forgive me.) between height and lane agility time. Someone with a lot of time would crunch those numbers, find some standard deviations, breakdowns within position, medians, means, etc. Not me. Not for free.
Miles Plumlee 10.64 3.36 Look at this speedy mother!
Kawhi 11.45 3.15
Danny 11.30 3.30
Bonner 11.52 3.32
Channing Frye 11.60 3.38 $6.4 million a year
Demarcus Cousins 10.64 3.55
DeAndre Jordan 12.30 3.27 $10 million a year, defensive, quick, athletic FREAK as per DraftExpress
Kevin Durant 12.33 3.45 $16.5 million a year, arguably best player in the NBA
Austin 12.11 3.55 $900k 12/13th man prospect, currently, traded for Nando DeColo (scoring 2 points in Toronto, since)
How much would you have to give up to go get Channing Frye, would he even come, and what improvement over Daye would he be? I am not saying he will be, but I would not be surprised to see Daye be better in several categories, for half the price or less after a season with The Spurs.
BONNER DESTROYS DURANT (And Channing Frye, et. al.)!
GREEN MORE HALF-COURT DEFENSIVE POTENTIAL THAN KAWHI!
Holy ! The little sarcastic meme going around SpursTalk, where people pretend that anyone said that Daye was better than Kevin Durant, and either argue against that straw man, or make hackneyed jokes about it being true...well it is true! At least in the half-court (lane agility)! Wow, just wow. Sign him up for $16.5 million Oh, wait?
He must have better defensive upside than Durant in all aspects of defense that the lane agility measurable definitively determines!
The truth about that lane agility number? The percentage differences between all of those players listed is very small, less than 10% difference across all of them. None of them are elite. They all have relatively pedestrian lane agility times. A truly elite time in the lane agility test seems to be in the low 8's to 9-10, for example. What is the percentage difference between someone in the low 8's and our lock down defenders times, Kawhi and Danny? HUGE percent difference. So, looking at that lane agility time - and attempting to measure their defensive prowess based heavily upon it would be silliness.
Yet, we are (and I use the royal we), attempting to use these negligible differences between Bonner, Kawhi, Green, and Daye to make a DRAMMATIC conclusion that there is no way he will be able to play any defense whatsoever. It's a foundation on sandy ground.
Again, on a time of 11.25-12.25, a .5 second difference here and there, or .7, or .8...not a huge difference there...
Kawhi, our lock down defender? 11.45 - 8.5 (an elite time in that drill) = 2.95 seconds. Wow, Kawhi is one slow mother! Except, wait. He's a badass.
The take-away? Although that lane agility number is not exactly a statistic, putting a whole lot of faith in it telling you whether or not a player is going to be a good defender is dangerous.
There is a lot bigger percentage difference in the 3/4 time, and maybe a better argument against Daye, there, but it's not conclusive, either. 3.55 is not the slowest speed out there, even among starters in the NBA, much less role-playing bench guys.
It's difficult to compare across positions, but that is Pop's job, to find situations where his weaknesses are minimized and his strengths are maximized. When Daye plays, it is not fair to say he is "slow for his position" while omitting the information "he is tall for his position", etc. When he leaves the bench, he doesn't leave those positive aspects of his being on the pine. He takes them with him, into the game. I watched a smaller guy blow by him, one-on-one...and then get his shot swatted back from the side as he went around. Without sounding as if I am trying to attibute super-powers to him, or something, it even seemed as if Daye hedged/baited the smaller player to try to go around him...with the desired result.
Athletic ability is just a component of defense. Bruce Bowen was no athletic freak.
When Daye made that sweet steal and pass to Joseph at the basket, he still had a 12.11 and 3.55, but he was situationally aware.
By the way, isn't it sad that on that little wrap-around ball fake and pass to CoJo (who then passed to Duncan), he didn't record an assist OR a basket. More intangible stuff that he brings to the table. That didn't show up in the box score, but sure displayed some basketball savvy and skill.
Gotta run, late! Take care, and forgive all the typos- and what-not!
Well it is official now. Kevin Durrant is terrible. look at his times. he is Austin Daye SLOW!!!!!!!
Daye has always been able to shoot from range. He shot over 42% from beyond the arc at Gonzaga and he shot over 40% from distance while playing over 1400 minutes for Detroit in his second NBA season. Now, you combine that deadeye shooting and the ability to guard to players like the ones you mention and you'd really have something. Of course, if he combined those two abilities this thread wouldn't exist. Austin Daye would still be in Detroit in year 1 of lucrative extension to his rookie contract, not desperately trying to hold on to his NBA career playing on a partially guaranteed minimum deal.
Memphis cut him coz he would just jack up 3s whenever he gets the ball and then won't play a lick of D.
DeAndre Jordan 12.30 3.27 $10 million a year, defensive, quick, athletic FREAK as per DraftExpress
Kevin Durant 12.33 3.45 $16.5 million a year, arguably best player in the NBA
Austin 12.11 3.55 $900k 12/13th man prospect, currently, traded for Nando DeColo (scoring 2 points in Toronto, since)
I guess those premier players whose numbers are so close to Daye will never make it big in the NBA.
It is a given that smaller and shorter players generally score better on those type of drills than bigger, taller players, no? At best, Kwahi is a below-average height SF and would be playing shooting guard if he'd shoot and dribble better. Green is listed as a SG. Comparing guards with front line players is a flim flam and Extatic should know better.
Finally, if numbers on a speed and agility test were all that it takes to make a good on-court player, they'd be scouting kangaroos, Cheetahs, and whitetail deer. Some players bring more to the game than sheer test numbers or the average height/weight for their position.
If you can name a player who never gets beat on defense by his opposite number, let's go after that guy for sure.
From way down on the bench, He isn't expected to be a shut-down defensive player against the starters of other teams. In the meantime, Daye should get better in the Spurs defensive scheme which doesn't rely on shut down one on one defenders.
I'm happy to accept our new addition to our deep roster and let POP worry about his skill set and how and when to use him.
I just think people are setting the bar too high if they're expecting Daye to become a great defender who can guard guys like Durant for extended periods of time. You can say "numbers don't matter", but that doesn't make Daye's lack of lateral quickness any less of a factor. Yes, his length makes up for some of that lack of speed...but he's still going to have trouble staying with a lot of quick SFs.
I'm just as happy as the next guy with Daye's performance so far. But if he could do all these things some of y'all are hoping for, he wouldn't have been traded for Nando De Colo in the first place. And I know Pop and the staff can get more out of guys than other teams, but still...he has his weaknesses.
86 dropping truff bombs.
...with the Spurs System, surrounded by additional shooters and willing passers, and a "scream in my pillow" desire to play you'd really have something.
That's what we're hoping for, but it still won't be anything that remotely resembles what the previous poster suggested.
2 steals and 2 blocks... that is a total of 4 defensive stops attributed to him.
This thread is full of B.S. that says he needs the foot speed and the bulk to be able to make it.
Daye already has the most essential attributes to do well as a Spur.
(1) Length - 6'11 - 7' 2.75" winspan 9' 2" stand reach...... compare with Leonard - 7' 3" winspan 8' 10" standing reach... that is 5 inches standing rach over Leonard.
(2) 3 Point Accuracy - Detroit 2010-11 .40 , Detroit 2012-13 .525 , NCAA .41 - .42 - Compare with Kawhi
(3) Basketball IQ - Played point guard in High School.
I know
That's what we're hoping for, but it still won't be anything that remotely resembles what the previous poster suggested....I wonder how this place is going to react when he has a couple more good showings against poor teams and then Pop benches him for apparently no reason in favor of someone else with more corporate knowledge.
True, the Pops Mensah Bonsu Syndrome.I know
Maybe you haven't noticed, but almost every Spur has a major weakness!
Spurs who can't jump - Duncan, Parker, Diaw, Splitter, Bonner, Bellinelli
Spurs who can't shoot - Splitter
Spurs Guard's who can't dribble - Green, Duncan, Splitter, Baynes, Bonner,
Spurs who are too short - Parker, Mills
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