Heat: Laimbeer: Lebron would be the best in my era

[Trainwreck2100]

Who blew the Heat's lead in the final minutes when he checked in and ruined the spacing of their offense? Who hit the clutch shot with 20.1 remaining that made Allen's shot matter?

Who "blocked" Danny green in game five making game 6 a possibility?

[313]

Yeah he was old as but how do you choke away a wide-open layup like this



Inexcusable, buddy

Lmao

[Clipper Nation]

Who "blocked" Danny green in game five making game 6 a possibility?

Who vanished in Game 2, needing the rest of the team to bail him out?

Who went 0-5 with 0 points and not even double digit rebounds in Game 7?

[Trainwreck2100]

Who vanished in Game 2, needing the rest of the team to bail him out?

Who went 0-5 with 0 points and not even double digit rebounds in Game 7?

We can go around in circles all you want but LeBron hasn't hasn't proven he can win by himself. ( wade game 4) Did they have shirts games? Nobody's questioning that but could LeBron win without them no. Unfortunately for him his shenanigans led to the owners ing the players with the new cba so now his collusion will have to go through Nike and Samsung and the like.

[resistanze]

We can go around in circles all you want but LeBron hasn't hasn't proven he can win by himself.

He pretty much carried the Heat for the first championship (2011-12). Besides Duncan in 2003 and Hakeem in 1994 I can't think of a championship run so dependent on one player.

[Trainwreck2100]

He pretty much carried the Heat for the first championship (2011-12). Besides Duncan in 2003 and Hakeem in 1994 I can't think of a championship run so dependent on one player.

The first one was a lot like Duncan's 99 strike shortened season against a finals team that has no business being there. Okc without the refs had no business being there and they showed it when they got steamrolled when the zebras swallowed their whistles.

[resistanze]

The first one was a lot like Duncan's 99 strike shortened season against a finals team that has no business being there. Okc without the refs had no business being there and they showed it when they got steamrolled when the zebras swallowed their whistles.

How can a team make it out of the oh so difficult West and not deserve to be there?
Lebron led the Heat in Points, Rebounds, Assists, and steals during the playoff run. He carried em either way.

[Brazil]

^
Lol the 1990s Cavs didn't have LBJ, but they were stacked compared to the Lebron version.

Lebron's Cavs would have gotten their asses handed to them.

On the other hand, the Blazers with a healthy and younger Sabonis would have prevented MJ from winning a bunch of les.

And ambchang is right, it's no coincidence that 2former Pistons have said that MJ is not the best ever

Oh man I would have loved to see blazers with a prime Sabonis. They would have been crazy good.

[jimbo]

How can a team make it out of the oh so difficult West and not deserve to be there?
Lebron led the Heat in Points, Rebounds, Assists, and steals during the playoff run. He carried em either way.

because Ibaka and Perkins made jumpshots

Thunderref

Tbh, equating the 98-99 lockout to the 11-12 one is ridiculous. People actually learned from the ups of the first lockout. (Namely don't get fat as )

It's not like we had another 8th seed in the finals...

[Trainwreck2100]

How can a team make it out of the oh so difficult West and not deserve to be there?
Lebron led the Heat in Points, Rebounds, Assists, and steals during the playoff run. He carried em either way.

Thunder playing without ref support is like playing short a man for them.

[G-Dawgg]

But Jordan had no problems scoring in the paint during those days. I can't imagine Lebron shying away from contact. People are citing Lebrons flops as weakness but it's not synonymous with physical play. I don't support it and actually wish he would change, he doesn't need it but unfortunately the league has turned a blind eye on it. The rules they have implemented are a joke. Players nowadays are looking for any extra edge they could get which is no different than what players are doing back then by way of intimidation.

Why would you ever compare Lebron to Jordan? I watched Jordan play growing up so I know how good he is, not based on some Youtube videos or pure stat crunching. In his prime, Jordan is unmatched at how he took over games and imposed his will on EVERY team and EVERY other superstar player he played against. Tbh I'm not even a big Jordan fan, but he was THAT good. believe the hype. Period. Lebron is a physical freak, but he is not nearly the compe or that Jordan was.

[Clipper Nation]

He pretty much carried the Heat for the first championship (2011-12). Besides Duncan in 2003 and Hakeem in 1994 I can't think of a championship run so dependent on one player.

He also carried a team to the Finals by himself in Cleveland

[sexinthatsx]

People are discounting that 80's basketball wasn't hand-checking... players were literally "sniping" other team's best players. Lebron's game relies on sheer power more than finesse, so I don't think he will be able to last a whole season, let alone be the best player during that era.

[ambchang]

- Dad Killer played in the expansion era, the weakest era of basketball in modern NBA history..a league where Reggie Miller was the best player on a contender and John Starks was the #2 guy on a contending team, etc..

As opposed to Tony Parker being the best player on a contender and Roy Hibbert being the #2 guy on a contending team? How about a contending team with McHale, Brooks as coaches? How about a coach like Spoelstra leading a team to b2b les? How about a team with Dirk (legit superstar) and a bunch of castoffs winning a championship?

- It isn't arguable that today's defenses are more sophisticated and complex compared to the 80s..it's just natural progression..today's coaches took previous ideologies and expanded them, along with the technological improvements and more advanced data..it really isn't arguable, and handchecking is the only argument that pro-80s and 90s supporters have..

a) Offenses are way more complex in today's game as well, allowing players to exploit weaknesses in defense and such
b) Didn't stop a guy like Phil Jackson and Pop leading teams to multiple championships in the new NBA.

- Dad Killer in '88 was a historic defender, which created an illusion for the rest of his career..

In fact, Jordan had higher defensive win shares in 96 as he did in 88. In total, he had 9 seasons of 5+ DWS seasons. You try to make 88 as a flash in the pan season defensively for Jordan. it wasn't.

For comparison's sake, Lebron have 4 seasons out of 11 with a DWS of 5+, Jordan had 9 out of 15.

He had a teammate that was arguably the best defensive perimeter player of all-time to guard the best player on the opposing team, in an era that had only a few notable perimeter players..Lebron routinely guards the opposing team's top player in the playoffs, he doesn't have anybody to fall back on, he had to shut down Rose, Parker, Pierce, etc..

So you are now penalizing players for the quality of teammates? What does that have to do with anything.

Jordan ranks well in Defensive RAPM, but not in the elite like Pippen and Lebron..they both actually doubled his early 90s DRAPM numbers..

Defensive RAPM also said Vlade Divacs is three times the defender Jordan is in 1991, and Manute Bol is a better defender than Hakeem. It's a stat that is heavily influenced by lineups and oppositions.

Also, an indictment on Dad Killer is that the Bulls improved defensively when he left..their defense somehow improved in the 1993-94 season without Jordan, speaks volumes on his defensive impact and responsibility, tbh..

Going from 7th in the league in DRating vs. 6th in the league the following season? The league was seeing dramatic changes in offensive and defensive philosophies in the 90s, and that was part of the transition. The Heat didn't dramatically improve their defense with vs. without Lebron, what does that say about Lebron's defensive impact and responsibilities?

- Jordan was one of the greatest rebounding guards of all-time, but he was still the #3 rebounder on his team..Lebron is the primary rebounder on his team..

Jordan had better rebounding teammates, and Lebron's teammates suck at rebounding. So? In fact, doesn't that speak to how crappy today's NBA rebounding is? Lebron had a career high RPG of 8, same as Jordan. And yet Jordan was #3 on a championship leading team, Lebron is #1. Seems like rebounding sucks in today's NBA, no?

- There's literally no argument for Jordan exerting as much energy as Lebron, he isn't even close, in that regard..Jordan was the #3 rebounder and secondary defender on his team, while Lebron is the #1 everything on his team..I can only imagine what Lebron could do if he had a Pippen on defense..

Rebounding is the only that require defensive energy now? Lebron had a career high of 2.2 spg, Jordan had 9 season with the same or a higher (sometimes MUCH higher) average. Lebron career high for blocks was 1.1 bpg, and Jordan, despite being shorter and plays more out in the perimeter, had 3 seasons with a higher average.

Come to think of it, a team that had Lebron as the leading rebounder, defender and scorer is a b2b championship winning team, and yet Jordan, a player who by all statistical measure is an equal, or at least comparable defender to Lebron, is the #2 or #3 on championship teams. Does that not speak to the current NBA sucking more?

- What's your point regarding the Knicks?..I never said Dad Killer couldn't dominate a great defensive team..he's one of the 3 best players of all-time, and it also helped that he didn't have to play defense in that series against a team with the 22nd ranked offense and terrible perimeter players..

That your assertion of Jordan consistently racking up empty stats vs. bad defensive teams are incorrect. You said the Pistons were a Raptors like defense (shown false), but ignored the Knicks being an equal defensive team (by your measure) as the #1 ranked defense.

And , you want to talk about the Knicks offense now? What about the Pacers last year? Was that some dynamite offense with a legendary perimeter offense or what? And who can forget Lebron's dominating performances against juggernaut teams like the Bucks, the Roseless Bulls, and Knicks! Anymore goalpost you want to move?

- Lebron had a poor series against Dallas, they didn't do anything special, he dominated superior defensive teams like Chicago in the same playoffs..he just had a poor series, which every great player has suffered from, including Dad Killer..

Sure Jordan struggled against the Sonics, who happened to have one of the best defensive players of all time. There are also those Knicks series, where the entire point was to rough up Jordan. Any other series you want to mention? As for James, there's the Mavs series, 07 vs. the Spurs, half of last year's series vs the Spurs, last year vs. the Bulls, 11 vs. the Bulls.

- Lebron was really good against the Spurs in the Finals, despite the raw scoring numbers, all while running virtually all of the offense(Wade couldn't stay on the floor and nobody else could create their own shot), and shutting down Tony Parker in games 6 and 7..

Lebron was clearly the best player in last year's finals, but he still struggled through half the series. Fact is, you can severely hurt Lebron's contribution when his jump shot is off, and his jump shot is still wildly inconsistent. You can't say the same for Jordan, especially not after a decade in the league.

[ambchang]

It's also funny that ambchang used Jordan vs. the Knicks in '93 as an example of Dad Killer vs. an elite, handchecking defense..a series where Jordan shot 40% from the field but averaged 11 ing free throw attempts per game

Ridiculous officiating, considering the defenses were "so tough" back then, according to all these s..

As opposed to Lebron shooting 52 FTAs vs. the Bulls last year while shooting 43.8% from the field? How about 44 FTAs vs the Bulls in 11 while shooting 44.7%?

It's not like the Knicks were known not to foul, where they were ranked 24th in the league in FT allowed.

[LkrFan]

He also carried a team to the Finals by himself in Cleveland

Josh McBob put him on his ass and he acted like he was about to die:



Imagine him going in the lane against The Bad Boys. Wouldn't be pretty tbh.

[lefty]

Oh man I would have loved to see blazers with a prime Sabonis. They would have been crazy good.

They would have destroyed the NBA, even though Drexler and Co had that choke gene in them, they would have been just too good