Fracking

[Winehole23]

btw, Manny, why do you believe the complaints are spurious?

Is mineral extraction totally harmless to those nearby?

[CosmicCowboy]

Because his firm lost. At least he gave color to it. His first response was a pure appeal to authority: "I was there. I know better"

You sure have ty reading comprehension.

It wasn't his firms case.

[vy65]

Some of that is interesting. On a side note, I was advised to make sure I try to visit the sites I research because lawyers will ask you that if you're called in as an expert witness. Seems like thats true!

I don't think #6 is all that important as over the course of time it weather data evens out. Assuming they at least took into account prevailing winds and normal temperature and humidity. No sampling over the limit on the property is more suspect though. In cases like these does the jury have to justify their conclusion?

The house itself was approximately a thousand feet away from the samples that were used as the basis for the model. There were some horror videos played at trial showing the drilling and completion phases of a well (and the loud sounds, bright lights, etc). Turned out those were taken by another property owner who lived approximately 300 feet away from a well.

No, the jury doesn't have to provide an explanation or reason for their answers to the charge. If they wish, they can be interviewed by the lawyers (although they never want to do so).

[vy65]

Because his firm lost. At least he gave color to it. His first response was a pure appeal to authority: "I was there. I know better"

Again, I'm more than happy to discuss any substantive point. I'd be really greatful if we could discuss why my impression of the testimony and evidence at trial should have resulted in a defense verdict.

[vy65]

LOL what?

I'm interested in what was actually discussed and decided. I am extremely skeptical that this family was made ill by the wells, quite frankly. I'd like to hear the viewpoint. Why are you so butthurt? Jesus.

One other thing I forgot to mention. The father and mother had a long history of health symptoms prefacing any drilling done by the defendants (they had nose bleeds, rashes, etc). They're also heavy smokers. They also didn't bring a medical expert linking their new symptoms of the same things to the defendants drilling.

[vy65]

Because his firm lost. At least he gave color to it. His first response was a pure appeal to authority: "I was there. I know better"

That's not an appeal to authority. That's an appeal to personal knowledge. Why's it invalid here?

[vy65]

btw, Manny, why do you believe the complaints are spurious?

Is mineral extraction totally harmless to those nearby?

Interesting. So is the entire oil and gas industry on trial, or just the defendant? Why is the industry writ large relevant to the specific case here?

[boutons_deux]

"is the entire oil and gas industry on trial"

precedents matter.

With BigCarbon, there is NO presumption of innocence. That presumption applies only to Human-Americans, not Corporate-Americans.

BigCarbon is presumed, based on its long, nasty, diverse history, guilty of human and environmental injury, destruction until proven otherwise.

[pgardn]

"is the entire oil and gas industry on trial"

precedents matter.

With BigCarbon, there is NO presumption of innocence. That presumption applies only to Human-Americans, not Corporate-Americans.

BigCarbon is presumed, based on ts long, nasty, diverse history, guilty of human and environmental injury, destruction until proven otherwise.

Sit DOWN Mr. Darrow !
I will have order in my court!

- excerpt from the highly anticipated legal thriller, Judge Boots Meets Clarence For Coffee

[vy65]

Was big carbon on trial here? Do you know how big the defendant was?

Lol no presumption of innocence.
Lol criminal law presumptions irrelevant in a civil trial
Lol selective justice
Lol answering for the "crimes" of others

[pgardn]

and expected me, of all people, to bow down to that.

hard to believe he didn't know the likely reply.

So you don't bow.
Down anyways...

Good to know when approaching a bridge on top of a speeding train while in mortal combat with a bad guy.

[boutons_deux]

Was big carbon on trial here? Do you know how big the defendant was?

Lol no presumption of innocence.
Lol criminal law presumptions irrelevant in a civil trial
Lol selective justice
Lol answering for the "crimes" of others

If this and other victims of BigCarbon win, then maybe fracking will be finally and correctly put under the Clean Water Act and other EPA regs, instead of the cowboy free-for-all, fly-by-night drilling (I assume Repugs will defund/castrate all such regulatory agencies).

[vy65]

BD, you do realize this was an air -- not water -- case, right? There was literally no claim of groundwater comtination.

[boutons_deux]

BD, you do realize this was an air -- not water -- case, right? There was literally no claim of groundwater comtination.

do you realize that EPA regulates air AND water?

BigOil is raping the earth and dumping the external costs on Human-Americans (and human being anywhere) and is effectively untouchable.

you and ing legal fly- ing

[vy65]

Legal fly ing aside, this case isn't precedent for groundwater claims

[MannyIsGod]

btw, Manny, why do you believe the complaints are spurious?

Is mineral extraction totally harmless to those nearby?

Is mineral extraction totally harmless to those nearby? It can be. But we can stop calling this mineral extraction as this is fracking and not mining. I'm skeptical because I've never seen any convincing evidence that fracking produces toxic plumes that can cause harm like this. This also seems to be quite the isolated case and I've yet to see a smoking gun. Granted, I haven't looked at the data for the case in particular, but if no air samples at the home were found to be over the safe limits at any point.

There's also the fact that the only other time I've seen such reactionary hate toward a technology like fracking is with GMO crops. There are issues and it should be regulated properly, but fracking - in my opinion - is no where near the boogey man it is made out to be. And I'd like to think that I'm quite environmentally conscious.

[Winehole23]

That's not an appeal to authority. That's an appeal to personal knowledge. Why's it invalid here?

which you merely waved at to start with. like I said, you've at least given it color.

[CosmicCowboy]

Is mineral extraction totally harmless to those nearby? It can be. But we can stop calling this mineral extraction as this is fracking and not mining. I'm skeptical because I've never seen any convincing evidence that fracking produces toxic plumes that can cause harm like this. This also seems to be quite the isolated case and I've yet to see a smoking gun. Granted, I haven't looked at the data for the case in particular, but if no air samples at the home were found to be over the safe limits at any point.

There's also the fact that the only other time I've seen such reactionary hate toward a technology like fracking is with GMO crops. There are issues and it should be regulated properly, but fracking - in my opinion - is no where near the boogey man it is made out to be. And I'd like to think that I'm quite environmentally conscious.

well said

[vy65]

Is mineral extraction totally harmless to those nearby? It can be. But we can stop calling this mineral extraction as this is fracking and not mining. I'm skeptical because I've never seen any convincing evidence that fracking produces toxic plumes that can cause harm like this. This also seems to be quite the isolated case and I've yet to see a smoking gun. Granted, I haven't looked at the data for the case in particular, but if no air samples at the home were found to be over the safe limits at any point.

There's also the fact that the only other time I've seen such reactionary hate toward a technology like fracking is with GMO crops. There are issues and it should be regulated properly, but fracking - in my opinion - is no where near the boogey man it is made out to be. And I'd like to think that I'm quite environmentally conscious.

I may have missed this point a little earlier, but are you starting to provide some expert witness services?

[Winehole23]

But we can stop calling this mineral extraction as this is fracking and not mining.

fracking isn't an extraction technique?

[vy65]

which you merely waved at to start with. like I said, you've at least given it color.

Sorry, do you have a point?

[vy65]

fracking isn't an extraction technique?

Fracking isn't mining in the conventional sense

[Winehole23]

saying you know better without saying what it is you know is not distinguishable from an appeal to authority but, thanks for finally sharing your opinion about the case. obviously, the jury didn't find it persuasive.

[Winehole23]

fine, I'll just say fracking if that makes you both happy.

[MannyIsGod]

fracking isn't an extraction technique?

Its a specific extraction technique its not all of mineral extraction techniques. Call it what you want though.