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psst...this is spurstalk.
Just a refresher..I hope to God none of the Morons in ST think Ginobili at this point of his career is more valuable.
Leonard>>>>>Ginobili...
I just needed to say that.
psst...this is spurstalk.
I don't think anybody thinks otherwise.
It was really noticeable for those 7 games against dallas how incredibly more valuable. If only 36 year old manu were as consistent as him.
Wow, the OP really hasn't been reading this board for the past 3 years. 2 Years ago many said Kawhi surpassed Manu as the 3rd best player on this team, and I agree. Honestly, I have Manu as the 5th best player behind Parker, Duncan, Kawhi, Splitter. Even then, Mills, Diaw, Beli, Green can outplay Manu on a given night.
Spurs are not depended on Manu like they use to be. But he is still a vital part of this team's success. He was crucial in the Spurs going on the 19 games winning streak (over half the games w/o Parker) and getting HC advantage in this year's playoff.
Quit hating on Manu, IMO he has done his part this year in helping the Spurs (HC and getting them past Dallas). Anything more is just gravy. He hasn't done anything thus far to screw the Spurs this year and hopefully it stays that way.
I see a bunch of Manu hate, more than praise these days. Ever since 6, I have found that the majority are anti-Manu, but I might have just been looking in the wrong places.
You aren't looking in the wrong places. Nearly everyone either turned on Manu or stopped backing him/being a fan.
3 years ago I felt MUCH differently about him than I do now. He has not aged gracefully. I still appreciate what he did, and the lesser extent of it that he does now, but honestly, I don't get excited for big Manu games anymore. He shat the bed and was the worst player on the team by far during the game that we should have won the le in. He literally can't make up for it unless we're getting steamrolled in the Finals this year and he puts us on his back and carries us to multiple wins while playing way above his head. Nothing else will undo it for me. Even that barely will since we should be going for #6 this year, not #5.
I don't know why people blame Manu. Spurs were up by double digit by the time he had 6 of his 8 TOs. To me Neal's atrocious D on Miller and Pops decision to take Tim out the game is what ultimately cost the Spurs the game.
IMO, Miami does not get two offensive Rebounds with Tim in the game on TWO FREAKIN CONSECUTIVE POSSESSIONS. That IMO, will be the decision that cost the Spurs the le, BOTTOM LINE. Pop cost the Spurs the le, not Manu.
How can legit Spurs fan speak negatively about one the top 6 Spurs players all time??/ Yes he's getting old, but you can never question his heart and hustle. All the greats slide at the age of 36, give him a break, you moron.
Don't get it twisted. Manu cost the spurs a le. He wasn't the only one who made mistakes in game 6, but he sure as made the most of them. That's why he should rightfully be blamed.
Manu was Portlands best player last night...and it wasn't close.
6 of his TOs came in the 1st half I believe. He only had two in the 2nd half and the Spurs had a double digit lead. Parker took the majority of the shots in the 2nd half and finish 6-23 shooting. Tell me how its Manu's fault. People just look at those 8 TOs in the stat sheet and say it was Manu's fault.
It came down to two plays, two plays and the best player ever in your franchise history and the best PF ever in the NBA wasn't even on the floor. Tell me who was responsible for this happening.
It doesn't matter when the mistake happened. All that matters is that it happened. Again, no player ever plays a perfect game so everyone is culpable to some degree. Parker shot like ass for the game. That's a mistake. Leonard missed a game winning free throw. That's a mistake. Pop pulled Duncan for the last play. That's a mistake...in hindsight.
Manu missed a game winning free throw. That's a mistake. Manu turned the ball over. That's a mistake. Manu turned the ball over..again. That's a mistake. Manu turned the ball over..again. That's a mistake. Manu turned the ball over.. yet again. That's a mistake. Manu then proceeded to turn the ball over another time. That's a mistake. Manu then followed up that gaffe by..you guessed it..turning the ball over, yet again. He then proceeded to turn the ball over, which flowed naturally into turning the ball over.
We we lost a ring because of Manu.
As any great coach would say, it doesn't matter what happens beforehand, it if you are in the game at the end, its the last plays that matter.
Spurs had the momentum, then Boom, Pop pulls Duncan and the rest is history. You say it was Manu, fine, that is your opinion. But there is nothing you can ever say to change my mind that Pop cost the Spurs the game.
I was IN LIVID when Pop benched Duncan and wasn't the least surprised of the outcome. All it reminded me of was the Pacers doing the same exact thing the previous round w/ Hibbert. Guess what, Pacers lost game 1, and one play the Heat got the Off rb and a put back, the other, Lebron waltz right in for an easy layup.
You can throw all of Manu's TO out the window, the Spurs were up by 5 with 28 seconds and just needed 1 defensive rebound and that game would have been over.
It was Manu's fault, the TO's and his poor play prevented the Spurs from gaining any sort of rhythm, from going on any runs, just like last night.
Nba games are often won and lost by teams making runs, just look at the 1st game against POR (I think) that game was over in the 1st Quarter, no matter how well they played in the 2nd half, it was not enough to overcome the lead they had lost in the 1st.
And I agree with the OP. The only thing Manu is better at is creating, however Leonard is no slouch, he has shown flashes of potential when they decide to run the offense through him.
He can take over on defense, which leads to transition points, dunks, wide open layups, etc. the Spurs start playing as a team offensively and defensively which makes them hard to beat. Plus he's extremely efficient, each missed shot is basically giving the other team another chance.
Wow, so being up 5 points with 28 seconds and your blaming Manu for the lack of runs. And Parker missing like 12 shots in the 2nd half didn't stop the Spurs from making runs. Love the logic.
I might be the minority, and in my book Timmy and Kawhi are 1A and 1B, and Tony is 2, even not considering last night's game. At least that should be the way for the Spurs to have a chance against OKC and the Heat. As much as fans like to see the offense, it's the defense that wins the championship, the same for LeBron and the Heat.
Jars keeping it real. Manu had two turnovers in Game Six at the worst time. Out of control silly turnovers. And early shot clock hero bricks. Change any of that and Miami doesn't have time to tie us. We win.
Wow this blows my mind, a 22 year old with a bright future ahead is more valuable than a 36 year old man as a player, as an investment and to god if he is not squashed by a truck/train.
Manu has already done good stuff here, apalisuck you are just a bandwagoner.
Well, if we take into account future value, Leonard is more valuable than Timmy, too, and quite possibly Tony. It's just the way it is when two of your better players are TOSBs in their upper 30s with a year or two left before they hang it up.
Our TOSBs actually are doing pretty well for their ages, though. Manu and Timmy are the two best players in the upper 30s in the NBA. Just look at Kevin Garnett.
Last edited by superjames1992; 05-15-2014 at 12:54 PM.
Who on earth was Duncan going to guard on those possessions? Miami had the floor stacked with shooters (though we all know Wade isn't the best from three) - Miller on the first possession and Bosh on the second (Miller had 5 fouls and Heat needed rebounding after Kawhi's miss), Lebron/Wade/Allen/Chalmers. The last thing you want Timmy doing is chasing down a three point shooter; Diaw was simply the better option. Anyone would rather not allow an open three attempt and take their chances to get the rebound.
Who knows that Duncan is in rebounding position anyway if he's out at the line guarding Bosh or Miller? Plus Lebron's two misses were absolute bricks which tend to have funky rebounds.
Hindsight is 20/20 and this horse is beaten to death.
Gino had some kind words about Leonard and Danny after yesterday's game. I'll try to find them.
Manu is getting old so I don't expect him to play the way he did 10 years ago but at the same time for being a part of the legendary Spurs Big 3 we CAN NOT afford for him to be the worst, or even one of the worst, players on this team. If Manu can just put up modest numbers with good efficiency that's all we can realistically ask of him, with anything else being gravy. That being said the only way the Spurs win it all this year is if Manu plays like he's still a top 3 player on this team.
Zone, ever heard of it play a 4-1 zone and have Duncan guard the paint or the guy closest to the paint whoever, that might be. Never under any cir stances do you take out your best rebounder and shot blocker out in the final moments of a game. Both the Pacers and the Spurs learn that lesson the hard way last year.
And it wasn't hindsight for me. I knew the Pop was making a big mistake when he took Duncan out. Bosh shot 28% or something like that for the series. Were you really worry about him hitting a 3 at that point.
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