Duncan still alters more shots than any other player. His presence is well known by the opposition, even if he isn't blocking as many shots.
As for rebounds, with Splitter improving dramatically on the glass and Leonard in the fold he doesn't have to grab all the boards thankfully. If those guys weren't playing he'd have his usual 15 boards a night but that isn't needed anymore.
He just turned 38.
With Ibaka gone Tim did not see as much Perkins and got exposed to the PnR.
This will move him out of position and moving. That's really tough on him now.
He has been a position timing rebounder and defender for some time now.
I think he does a great job with his hands tipping rebounds still. One thing he has not lost much of is length.
As stated, Splitters mobility with height, and Leonard's ability to get longer rebounds have helped us tremendously.
In the Portland series Duncan spent a lot of time engaged with Lopez. Lopez played very hard every game, he was clearly not thinking his team was at a severe disadvantage. Lopez put in a huge effort imo.
feels.
TImmy does not defend PnR as well as Splitter, but he has more blocks than fouls (not just PnR fouls) during the regular season. Where does this "Tim compounds this problem by going for chase-down blocks that he rarely gets, often resulting in a foul." come from?
Someone from the Express-News tweeted that Duncan's knees flared up after he banged knees with Monta Ellis in Game 1 of the Dallas series.
His blocks don't come from defending the PnR. They come from him being near the rim. Tim's the best rim-protector in the league when he can play in a phone booth, but he's awful in motion. He's taken to fouling (and allowing and-1s) when he gets beat recently when he should just let the player score.
Plus, I know a lot of you wanted Duncan to have his very own version of the twin towers at this age, but '97 Tim Duncan isn't walking through that door.
Besides, I doubt Duncan could carry the same defensive burden that '01-'03 Robinson did (I actually never saw David play at those ages, but I always hear about how he was a great defensive player.) Duncan has aged quite the opposite, making scoring his best attribute. Having a smart, physical, motivated Tiago Splitter to shut down the likes of Dirk/LaMarcus is really just what Duncan needs at this age.
Honestly, it feels like we're all living in a NBA 2k video game and some dude just boosted all of Tiago's defensive/rebounding ratings due to being too lazy to actually make a couple of trades.
All in all, Timmy averages 1.8 fouls per game. Care to elaborate that into your "often resulting in a foul" argumet?
Yeah. All three of his fouls last game where the result of out-of-control contests off poor screen defense. One was a foolish swipe at Westbrook as Russ drove to the rim. Another was a push in Westbrook's back. And the third was him trying to soft-close on Durant after sinking on a PnR. That was just last game. His fouls on Ellis during the end of Game Six of the Dallas series were of the same nature.
When was the last time Tim got a block from behind?
And guys think the better option defending OKC is Tim out as only answer...
What about the rest of our guys defending the pick and roll better? Tim isn't the guy who was caught in no man's land in his attempted double team on Durant.
What about the times when Tim helped and our other guy never recovered?
What about the OKC screens? Westbrook/Durant never need call for another screen because the first is ridiculously efficient, under screens is our best strategy against a great screen-setting and so good shooting team?
I'm too lazy to write so I just copy.
When people said Tim doesn't have the fresh legs to prevent the ball-handler from getting to the rim and gets back to recover to the roll man...I just remember the pick and roll defense is a team defense, particularly against OKC.
Just for Pop's design or just because they forget, the Spurs didn't help well from the weak side, didn't fight over the screen to take away any space, not defense on the screener...We shouldn't blame Tim for all the mistakes on PnR defense.
You make it sound like this is happening every time down the court or something. Tony does the same exact thing to bigs on a regular basis. It's part of the game. Little guys are quicker and trickier then bigger guys. Tim has regressed defensively some with age and that's to be expected. He's still a good defender and does a lot more good than bad.
People are trying to twist this. Duncan doesn't always foul or give up a shot on a PnR, because the ball-handler doesn't always attack. Sometimes, they pull up for a shot, which Ellis and Carter did to great effect in the Dallas series. Duncan sinks instead of hedging, which allows for the handler to get a clean look off a good screen. That would be somewhat acceptable if Duncan managed to sink all the way back into the paint, but he doesn't instead, he stands in no man's land, which means he's not going to stop penetration either. That is a problem, one that he could fix but doesn't. It's one thing to concede either the shot or the drive, but Duncan is conceding both right now, and fouling to boot.
As I said before, Tim is an overall good defender. But he can't handle small-ball for PnR-heavy teams. He doesn't do more good than bad in those situations. He literally didn't make one good play defending the PnR/PnP in Game One. It's even more noticeable when the Medium Three aren't involved in the play, as they do much more to cover for Duncan than people want to accept. Good luck trying to stop a PnR if Manu or Parker is the perimeter defender with Tim behind them.
Tiago, Diaw (when he was the center) and Baynes each had fantastic defensive games. If OKC doesn't play two bigs, the Spurs will have three superior defensive options.
I agree he isn't always the best option in these scenarios.As I said before, Tim is an overall good defender. But he can't handle small-ball for PnR-heavy teams.
http://stats.nba.com/featured/sportv...iref:nbahpt13aDuncan defending Thunder bigs
When Tim Duncan defended Oklahoma City's interior players, offense was almost non-existent. Between Kendrick Perkins, Steven Adams and Nick Collison they combined for just seven touches and 0-for-1 shooting from the floor in 7:13 of matchup time.
Yes, yes he was. Manu's foul on Durant was in the large part the result of Tim giving a half-hearted double-team in no man's land, realizing his mistake and leaving Manu out to dry when he sank again. As for the other guys, they all defended it really well. The PnR wasn't a problem at all when Duncan's man didn't set the screen.
That didn't happen, at least not against Durant, Westbrook, Jackson or Fisher. The only possible exception was when Duncan helped Green stop a Russ iso and Westbrook got the board and scored while Green was flat-footed. I counted that as Danny's fault, though. The whole reason why Duncan's defense is a problem is because he's NOT helping; he's leaving his guards out to dry.What about the times when Tim helped and our other guy never recovered?
OKC's screens were not effective. The Spurs bottled them up very well.What about the OKC screens? Westbrook/Durant never need call for another screen because the first is ridiculously efficient, under screens is our best strategy against a great screen-setting and so good shooting team?
What you're saying is exactly why I got the numbers myself instead of getting them from ESPN some other site. I wanted to look at each possession and see which Spur was most responsible for each result. Basketball is a team sport, but individual mistakes precipitate team collapses. Duncan played poor TEAM DEFENSE.I'm too lazy to write so I just copy.
When people said Tim doesn't have the fresh legs to prevent the ball-handler from getting to the rim and gets back to recover to the roll man...I just remember the pick and roll defense is a team defense, particularly against OKC.
Just for Pop's design or just because they forget, the Spurs didn't help well from the weak side, didn't fight over the screen to take away any space, not defense on the screener...We shouldn't blame Tim for all the mistakes on PnR defense.
I didn't look at the bigs, although it probably wouldn't take a long time to do so. However, the trio is averaging around 10ppg in 50mpg. So they would be expected to score 1.4 points in the seven minutes Duncan played them. They weren't really a tough assignment.
Chinook
I don't like players always under screens against OKC and I didn't see a great job of the rest of the guys defending the pick and roll (except two), but I really hope you're right about that, because it means the Spurs can neutralize one of best Thunder offensive weapons.
What? No one went under the screens against OKC's stars, and if they did, that wouldn't be Duncan's fault, as he wouldn't actually be in the play after that point. The defending big comes into play when the perimeter defender goes OVER the screen, since doing so opens up a driving lane. Going under the screen negates the driving the lane but allows a shot. The problem with what Duncan was doing is that he'd sink when the guard went over the screen, which left a midrange shot open or (because of Duncan's lack of mobility) a somewhat more narrow driving lane. Had Duncan hedged strongly like Splitter, Baynes and Diaw did, the ball-handler for OKC would have neither had an open shot or a clear driving lane. The roll-man would have been open instead.
By not hedging by also not fully sinking, Duncan allowed the PnR ball-handler to both drive and shoot, but he stopped the roll-man. The problem with that is that OKC's roll-men aren't really threats, especially without Ibaka. Essentially, the perimeter defenders were going over screens expecting help from Duncan, and he wasn't giving it to them. That left them out to dry. Instead, either he needs to step up an hedge or the perimeter defenders have to concede the shot and go under the screen. It shouldn't be a debate as to which one is preferable.
Tim is basically unplayable in small ball on the defensive end. When he's the only big we're basically giving up open midrange jumpers. Thankfully Ibaka is out or else things would be even worse.
The problem, though, is that if we advance and face Miami, they play as much if not more small ball than the Thunder typically would. Bosh has been playing like this series but he's still even more of a shooting threat than Ibaka. Tim's only chance in a MIA series would be to punish Bosh on the low block whenever they go small, but even then it would be tough to play him over Splitter against small ball. It's come to the point where you almost try to stay big with Duncan and Splitter/Diaw and see if you can't hide Tim on a slower wing like Sefalosha.
I said before the series I figured Pop would live and die with Duncan as the primary big against small ball, and lo and behold I was wrong; for the first time I can recall he went with Stiffler for a big stretch of the fourth. It will be interesting to see how this plays out, as every team we face from here on will play a lot more small ball, except Indiana who will lose to Miami in five games, book it.
TD is coasting to avenge the 6 tbh
Tim did mention he wasn't pleased with his rebounding effort in Game 1. I think that's largely where his greatest value is on the defensive end these days. The arrival of a good rebounder like Kawhi has diminished that a bit, but you can't have enough good, fundamental box outs and rebounding bigs and this team certainly needs them.
It's not as big of a deal against Miami because of their personnel. Lebron is the only one of Miami's stars who's a threat to shoot a pull-up three off a screen. (Allen and Chalmers are pretty much the only other ones in the rotation). This means the Spurs can go under screens against the Heat, which they can't do on OKC. Also, Miami is not nearly as effective in screening with their bigs as OKC is. They get a much bigger advantage running a 2/3 PnR with Wade and James. But just like with OKC's 1/3 PnR, the Heat don't gain a major advantage by doing this, since Danny is a capable forward defender and Kawhi is a capable guard defender. The Spurs have to stop penetration first; they'll gladly concede jumpers.
Duncan's biggest concern will be closing out on Bosh. Green and Leonard will get the perimeter.
This thread is ludicrous
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