On the all time great list?
Bird was nasty, just nasty. Watched him in the 80's. People nowadays (especially the young ones) have often no clue how good he was. He was beast. However, Duncan's prime is definitely up there. And his longevity only counts for him (of course, it's hard to blame Bird for his back). Right now I'm having them pretty close, but with a slight favor for Duncan. If Duncan wins it this year, this debate is done, at least for me.
Crazy how amazing Bird was considering he destroyed his back in ing 1983 putting in a driveway at his house in Indiana.
In the mid 80's the only player who could hold Bird's jock was Magic. Jordan wasn't up there yet. In the late 80's, yes. But before, no.
I watched bird play. Yes he was a beast, yes he was nasty. I love bird, but longevity, plus one more ring puts Duncan ahead of bird.
I hated him as a player, but was sad the day he retired. He was a fierce compe or.
That's what I said. I have Duncan ahead of Bird right now, albeit not by that much. However, as stated above, if Duncan wins again this year, this debate is settled for me forever.
I meant him already having one more than bird puts him ahead of bird right now.
People that brush off the discussion in favor of bird without really comparing their careers and accomplishments are doing a disservice to Duncan....Not referring to you Sportsudi.
I changed while you were replyingjust a typo of mine. Check my original post. Again, I have Duncan ahead of Bird, although it's close.
duncan is safely locked top5 of all time imho dude surpassed Bird years ago.
Duncan is at the bottom half of the top 10 and that is set in stone until another 3-4 people surpass him.
They're so close statistically and hardware wise, it's too close to call. That's why I like putting greats in tiers where each player is essentially equal to one another (post merger).
Tier 1: Michael, Kareem, Magic.
Tier 2: Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Lebron
Tier 3: Kobe, Hakeem, Dirk (I know this addition will receive criticism, but Dirk is superior to Kobe in pretty much every statistical measurement there is, from all around "raw" per game stats, advanced metrics, clutch stats, Finals stats, etc).
Tier 4: KG, Barkley, Robinson, Wade, Dr J, Moses Malone.
Etc, etc.
i have no clue how to gauge the prehistoric stars like wilt, russell, baylor, west, oscar
Olajuwon needs to be in tier 2.
Why is a role player on tier 3 with Hakeem and Dirk?
This one is close. Duncan has the rings and longevity edge, but Bird has the skills and toughness edge. Bird was a better player and played against much better compe ion. Bird beat D. J... Magic, Thomas, and Jordan... you can even throw in Hakeem and Samson. Since you guys put so much stock in MVP's I guess you can cancel out Duncan's edge in rings due to Bird's 3MVP's. Bird is recognized as a Legend and you won't find many people giving Jim the edge over Bird. I guess it all depends on how you guys spin it to your favor. But if I'm going into hostile territory in a game seven I'm taking Larry Legend with me over Jim.
It's amazing listening to talking heads just blindly state bird is ahead of Duncan for nostalgic or media bias reasons without really comparing their careers.
It's like they are protecting birds legacy by keeping Duncan behind him for personal reasons. They don't want a Spur to surpass the great Bird in their nba lore.
Bird was great but Duncan was great on both ends of the floor that's the difference for me also why dirk can't be an all timer.
I never watched much of Bird's game so its unfair for me to really answer, but I would say Duncan is above him. Guys ing incredible as much as I hated him a few years ago, he's a proven winner.
Duncan is about to boot Bill Russell out of the Top 6 but I don't see him getting higher than that without atleast another Finals MVP
Because Dirk wore the choker tag for most of his career.
Yes because of the reasons everyone has already stated.
They pull the same with Dad Killer too, tbh.... the problem is, thanks to Stern's lack of creativity and how screwed the league was before the '80s, the league's marketing is so heavily tied to Bird, Magic, and DK that those guys' legacies are scrubbed clean by Media and their rankings aren't allowed to be questioned.... this trickles down to the fans and prevents an honest discussion of the all-time rankings from ever happening, as people are too blinded by nostalgia and Media brainwashing to put their emotions aside....
It cracks me up whenever people use the 2011 Finals to try to push LeBron down the all-time list, but Bird's atrocious 1981 Finals is completely ignored like it never even happened
I've had Duncan above Bird for a few years, but Bird is literally only one spot below Duncan on my GOAT list (I have Shaq above Timmy, then Wilt, Magic, Russell, Jabaar, Jordan).
So Bird is there, you just can't discount the greater longevity and more les for Timmy. With another ring, Timmy goes above Shaq (can be argued he already is or is at least tied with now yet another Finals appearance) and Wilt (if he performs very well), and is arguably on par with or above Magic too.
Timmy ringing again will give him an amazing legacy that's only truly topped by MJ, Russell, and Kareem.
How could it be set in stone if he's about to play a Finals?
This thread is gonna go off track to Kobe v Duncan. Hope not.
But what other players are ahead of Duncan? And where is Bird on that list?
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