Reply With Quote
aren't you the guy who said westchimp is slower than parker and that he can't go past him?
I see what you're saying here, but if the poor spacing isn't an issue with Duncan/Splitter why would it be an issue with Gasol/Splitter? Bosh and Love have a 3 point shot so I'll grant you them, but Gasol is as good a mid range shooter as Aldridge and neither has a reliable 3 ball so I don't see what we gain from Aldridge offensively.
Defensively Gasol is the best of the 4, and Love especially is a terrible defender so we would really struggle with him next to Splitter as neither can block shots. Bosh is the only one who can give more on offence than Gasol and is a decent defender, but if the trade off is Gasols elite defence for Boshs 3 point shot I go with the Spaniard every time.
Of course this is still assuming we still have Diaw, so we'd have the option to stay big with Gasol/Splitter against teams like Dallas and Portland and go small with Gasol/Diaw against OKC and Miami and be great defensively in both instances. I don't see how any other player keeps us as an elite defensive club going both big and small.
aren't you the guy who said westchimp is slower than parker and that he can't go past him?
I'm sitting here speaking with my good fiend Robert Mondavi about the possibility of Mills getting as much as 8 mil next year as a starter. I think he could get maybe half of that, but Robert believes he could get it if he goes to the 76's and shares it with Brett (joke..Joke)
hm state your terms..
We can base it on the confirmed first year salary of Patty's next contract (reputable source like Woj or Sham).
If the first year salary is 7.5M or more, you win.
Less than 7.5M, I win.
Loser doesn't post anywhere on SpursTalk from the day the contract is signed until the day the 2015 NBA Finals end.
Spacing IS a major issue with the current Spurs offense. That's why Diaw is starting right now. It's going to be an even bigger one as Parker ages, as he won't be able to beat defenses as easily and will need more space. Leonard's offensive evolution depends on his having space to drive as well as space to post-up his defender. He doesn't need spacing to be a spot-up shooter like Green, but that type of Kawhi can't be a legitimate second option on a contender.
I don't think you realize exactly how much better each of those players are than Gasol offensively. Marc scored 23.3 points per 100 possessions this season. Bosh scored 26.6 Aldridge scored 32.5. Love scored 35.4. It's really not close. As far as actual skills go, Gasol is no where near Aldridge's level as a shooter. Marc (from what I can recall) is a shooter in the Duncan mold, a guy who can catch-and-shoot from the elbow. Aldridge is much more dynamic, being able to shoot in PnP situations, off screens and in isolation. A full third of LA's attempts are long-twos, and he makes 42 percent of them. Gasol shoots 41 percent on long-twos, but they comprise only a seventh of his offense. I guess the best way to put it is that Gasol is a center who can shoot from midrange whereas Aldridge is a power-forward who can play a little center in a pinch.Defensively Gasol is the best of the 4, and Love especially is a terrible defender so we would really struggle with him next to Splitter as neither can block shots. Bosh is the only one who can give more on offence than Gasol and is a decent defender, but if the trade off is Gasols elite defence for Boshs 3 point shot I go with the Spaniard every time.
As far as Bosh and Love go, being able to shoot from three is considerably offensively than what Gasol gives. Sure, Marc can pass and help you out in the post, but that isn't going to be a huge help on the Spurs' roster.
I don't think you're future-proofing at all. I can't see Diaw being a legitimate option for a mobile four for more than a couple of more years. He's been pretty poor in this post-season guarding small-ball fours and perimeter players who aren't Wade. His play-making ability and post game should be there for years. He should still be able to stretch the floor. But he's not going to be able to do defensively what the Spurs will need him to, and offensively he won't be aggressive enough to make up for Parker's decline.
I mentioned this a week or so ago, but I think if Duncan retires, I think our core could still be ok with Fatty Diaw moving into the Starting lineup.
^ well none, but there's different levels of being owned.
I got blasted for saying that about green. Glad to here someone else with a brain say something similar. I saw you post on Marc, do you think he would fit in our offense?
Im along the same lines as you, it seems, on Gasol. Worried about his anti-athleticism and slow ass footwork. Seems like Splitter but a little better and a lot more $. But then I started thinking how he averages about 16 ppg with really no offense, and thought I might be shocked at what he does high tempo with good ball movement. I mean he can pass it too. And I think he's a million times the finisher Tiago is.... I dont know that I would spend the house on him.
I think you are overrating Parkers future decline, he's only just turned 32. The guy still has at least 4 years left playing at a top level, he can afford to lose a lot of his quickness and still be fast enough to get in to the paint and finish. If Parker falls apart the way your predicting and isn't a threat to drive and finish, we might as well blow it up because we won't have a chance.
I disagree completely that spacing is as big an issue as you're making out, because we finished with the best record in the NBA and won two playoff series starting Timmy and Tiago.
I think that is a horrible use of stats. I don't know why you used per 100 possessions rather than per game or per 36, but it makes no difference. The reason Aldridge and Love scored more is because of the much higher usage rate. They took 29 and 25 FGA per 100 possessions respectively, compared to Gasols 19. In fact, Gasol shot a higher FG% than both Love and Aldridge this year. Bosh had a higher FG% and points but lets be real here, he gets to play next to Lebron which helps.
I don't know where you got the idea that only a seventh of Gasols shots are long twos, this year 23% of his FGA were between 16ft and the 3 point line. He had a bad year from there, only hitting 37% but that is likely due to him having injuries as he has averaged 45% from that range over the previous 3 years.
I flat out disagree that getting someone able to shoot the 3 is such a priority when we have Diaw who you could pair with either Splitter or Gasol if you require to stretch the floor. Gasol/Diaw is hugely superior to Splitter/Love or Splitter/Bosh defensively and spaces the floor just as well. You'd also have the option of Gasol/Splitter against bigger teams when floor spacing isn't such an issue, as we saw against Portland and Dallas when we had Splitter/Duncan playing together for big minutes, a big defensive lineup that wouldn't be possible with Bosh or expecially Love.
IMO there's simply no argument for Aldridge over Gasol because they can do the same things offensively, Gasol shot the mid range better from 2010-13 (i.e. excluding this year), and Gasol is so far ahead of Aldridge defensively.
Love has the 3 point shot (although he shoots a pretty mediocre percentage) but we wouldn't be able to stop anyone in the paint with Splitter/Love or Love/Diaw, and that 3 point shot is not worth all the points we'd give up.
What is it that Diaw won't be able to do defensively that you think the others could do alongside Splitter? You think Bosh or Aldridge could guard these small ball fours/wings better than Diaw? The reality is that whoever we bring in would play significant minutes with Diaw regardless so any decline he may have would be better solved putting a former DPOY behind him than the other power forwards you mention.
Edit: Sorry thats a damn long post
Last edited by Richie; 06-14-2014 at 06:50 PM.
Gasol would fit seemlessly in our system post Duncan, he can do everything Duncan does for us right now and is a better defender.
Don't you dare cheer for the Spurs tomorrow tbh.
Hey I love Duncan but he isn't the defender he once was, he got blown by at least 3 times closing out to Bosh on the perimeter and Bosh got dunks every time.
Even at this stage in their careers, he's a better defender than Fat Gasol tbh.
i'm not interested in making you stop posting.
The only reason why spacing didn't doom the Spurs this season is because Leonard's three-point shot returned. Before that, the SL's offense was horrible. As Kawhi's offensive role grows, the spacing will get worse, because he won't be standing on the perimeter as much. Some of this can be fixed with Parker's three-pointer seemingly coming back after a decade's hiatus, but it there would still be issues with Leonard, Splitter and Gasol in the paint.
As far as this season goes, even with Kawhi's shot coming back, the Spurs' first unit with Splitter/Duncan struggled to generate good looks against Dallas, OKC (post-Ibaka's return) and to a lesser extent Miami. Portland's defense is gimmicky and awful, so it's no surprise the Spurs scored on them. Regardless, I think you're understating how much Parker has already declined, and more importantly, how much the offense will decline if it has to depend solely on Old Parker's penetration. Right now, the Spurs have Ginobili and Duncan to fall back on. But if the fall-back options are a mediocre Gasol and a misused Leonard, the Spurs are done. However, if the options are Aldridge and a correctly used Leonard, then Parker would be fine for a few more years.
Yeah, I was looking at Gasol's career shooting stats by mistake. It ends up about even, though. Aldridge is much more of an outside threat than Gasol is. Anyhow, it would make sense that Marc's FG% is higher than the others, seeing as he's a center who plays closer to the rim while the others are true PFs. That reinforces what I was saying earlier. Gasol is a five, and Splitter is a five. They don't make a good combo going forward.I think that is a horrible use of stats. I don't know why you used per 100 possessions rather than per game or per 36, but it makes no difference. The reason Aldridge and Love scored more is because of the much higher usage rate. They took 29 and 25 FGA per 100 possessions respectively, compared to Gasols 19. In fact, Gasol shot a higher FG% than both Love and Aldridge this year. Bosh had a higher FG% and points but lets be real here, he gets to play next to Lebron which helps.
I don't know where you got the idea that only a seventh of Gasols shots are long twos, this year 23% of his FGA were between 16ft and the 3 point line. He had a bad year from there, only hitting 37% but that is likely due to him having injuries as he has averaged 45% from that range over the previous 3 years.
I think you're overrating Gasol's defense again. It's not revolutionary. You can very much argue that he's not much better than Splitter (who's the best defensive big on the team right now). His mediocre offense doesn't get offset, which is a primary reason why Memphis struggles to beat teams that aren't poorly coached. The Spurs' three best overall defenders are still young; they don't need to prioritize adding another defender over fixing their offense.I flat out disagree that getting someone able to shoot the 3 is such a priority when we have Diaw who you could pair with either Splitter or Gasol if you require to stretch the floor. Gasol/Diaw is hugely superior to Splitter/Love or Splitter/Bosh defensively and spaces the floor just as well. You'd also have the option of Gasol/Splitter against bigger teams when floor spacing isn't such an issue, as we saw against Portland and Dallas when we had Splitter/Duncan playing together for big minutes, a big defensive lineup that wouldn't be possible with Bosh or expecially Love.
IMO there's simply no argument for Aldridge over Gasol because they can do the same things offensively, Gasol shot the mid range better from 2010-13 (i.e. excluding this year), and Gasol is so far ahead of Aldridge defensively.
Love has the 3 point shot (although he shoots a pretty mediocre percentage) but we wouldn't be able to stop anyone in the paint with Splitter/Love or Love/Diaw, and that 3 point shot is not worth all the points we'd give up.
As far as overall impact goes, I would rate the four players in this order: Bosh, Aldridge, Gasol and Love. Bosh is easily the best of the four, but he's older and doesn't really want to leave Miami. Aldridge is great offensively and decent defensively. Gasol is a freaking center. Love is a glass cannon, but I'd take him on the Spurs, since they have the defensive pieces to put around hm.
On that last part, Diaw is losing his ability to be a mobile four pretty quickly. As I said, he struggled against small-ball fours defensively this post-season. He's also a little too small to guard shooting fours like Dirk and Aldridge. While he's a really good player who is very valuable, he is on the decline from an athletic standpoint, and it actually is important.
Thank you for admitting that. So your argument that Patty Mills isn't a true PG because he can't stay in front of Westbrook, when WB lights up every other PG in the league is kind of hilarious.
"This guy can't guard KD so he's not a legit SF."
Personally I'd be happy with either Gasol or Aldridge. I think Pop could make either one of them a massively productive member of our team.
You asked for terms, which suggests you had interest in a wager.
I provided terms.
If they are not acceptable, suggest others. Otherwise, I'll accept your lame response as tacit admission that you realized the absurdity of your post.
Speedy Claxton left after proving himself in 2003. $10m, three years.
Plenty of money for that time although Claxton was a better pg than mills. Probably the best Spurs backup pg after Tony Parker in his rookie year.
Mills is definitely the better scorer nevertheless.
3.3 mil a year is a FAR cry from 8mil a season. That's big money. I just don't see it.
No way he gets 8 million a year. He will get 4-6 though.
first off i wasn't specifically talking about westbrook and being owned here and there is very different than having a physical impossibility to contest any shot from a player.Thank you for admitting that. So your argument that Patty Mills isn't a true PG because he can't stay in front of Westbrook, when WB lights up every other PG in the league is kind of hilarious.
"This guy can't guard KD so he's not a legit SF."
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
