Where do Parker & Ginobili rank post-Jordan at their positions?

[mingus]

We all hear (and know) about how Duncan is the best PF ever. Lets look at TP & Manu though. Where do you have them post-Jordan at their respective positions?

I'm not looking at career accomplishments. Other players played on ty teams and no doubt that inflated their stats (and kept them from winning 'chips on the flip side).

But from a skill/talent level, where do you have them?

[Gino-Step]

Manu is on the same level as Kobe post Jordan. Kobe had more pure athleticism and strength. Instincts and mind and vision and understanding the game, Manu was the best not just at his position but perhaps of all players post Jordan. The only player I can think of that thought the game like he did is Jeff Hornacek. No surprise that guy is killing it as a coach.

Parker is probably the 2nd best point guard after Jason Kidd in the post Jordan era. Jason Kidd you never needed to hide defensively against bigger players and length didn't bother Kidd on the offensive end.

Manu #2 after Kobe
Parker #2 after Kidd

People who believe that Steve Nash, Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Chris Paul, James Harden, Rajon Rondo, Dwyane Wade, Joe Johnson and these types of guys hold even a lick to Parker and Ginobili completely do not see basketball at the highest levels of detail.

[Emperor]

I actually have Parker third behind Jason Kidd and Steve Nash because of his two mvps and Manu as second behind Kobe. I've argued with many old school Bulls fans that Prime Manu would of been a handful if he had gone up against Jordan.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Manu is on the same level as Kobe post Jordan. Kobe had more pure athleticism and strength. Instincts and mind and vision and understanding the game, Manu was the best not just at his position but perhaps of all players post Jordan. The only player I can think of that thought the game like he did is Jeff Hornacek. No surprise that guy is killing it as a coach.

Parker is probably the 2nd best point guard after Jason Kidd in the post Jordan era. Jason Kidd you never needed to hide defensively against bigger players and length didn't bother Kidd on the offensive end.

Manu #2 after Kobe
Parker #2 after Kidd

People who believe that Steve Nash, Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Chris Paul, James Harden, Rajon Rondo, Dwyane Wade, Joe Johnson and these types of guys hold[s] even a lick to Parker and Ginobili completely do not see basketball at the highest levels of detail.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Manu will never score 20 again

[Diego20]

Don't be that bad with the kid, he probably wants to kill himself everytime Manu scores 20 points..

[Diego20]

Manu #3 behind Kobe and Wade.

Parker #4 behind Jason Kidd, Steve and CP.

[gnsf0946]

Some homer takes were expected but Manu better than Wade and Kobe and comparable to Jordan??

What kind of drugs do you have down in San Antonio?

[Diego20]

Some homer takes were expected but Manu better than Wade and Kobe and comparable to Jordan??

What kind of drugs do you have down in San Antonio?

Nobody said that..

[gnsf0946]

Nobody said that..

Prime Manu would of been a handful if he had gone up against Jordan.

[TheGreatYacht]

The stupidity in this thread

[Diego20]

The stupidity in this thread

You are stupid .

[Pocho La Pantera]

nostradamus.

[Brazil]

Manu #3 behind Kobe and Wade.

Parker #4 behind Jason Kidd, Steve and CP.

Pic put Parker 3 too tbh
cp3 is loaded with talent but dude is failing at highest stage.

[Pocho La Pantera]

Pic put Parker 3 too tbh
cp3 is loaded with talent but dude is failing at highest stage.

+1

[Diego20]

Pic put Parker 3 too tbh
cp3 is loaded with talent but dude is failing at highest stage.

If TP averaged 2 more assists per game I would say he's better than CP. I really appreaciate assists when it comes to a PG.

[ontheraise]

If TP averaged 2 more assists per game I would say he's better than CP. I really appreaciate assists when it comes to a PG.

have you ever seen spurs game do you understand that in spurs system it doesn 't matter from who the assists is comming.... cause to get from good shot to great shot you need to move the ball a lot so the assist stat is irrelevant.
put cp3 in spurs roster 1st he wouldn't have blake griffin to throw alley oops to( ok now there is kawhi but for a long time there was nobody to throw an alley oop to), 2nd when he'll find splitter or diaw inside the paint or any other there would be a80% chance that those dude made an extra pass to find someone with a better look even standing 1 feet from the basket. so a lot to hurt cp3 assist stat you can add to that , that cp3 is playin 4 more min/game than parker on career time

[Diego20]

have you ever seen spurs game do you understand that in spurs system it doesn 't matter from who the assists is comming.... cause to get from good shot to great shot you need to move the ball a lot so the assist stat is irrelevant.
put cp3 in spurs roster 1st he wouldn't have blake griffin to throw alley oops to( ok now there is kawhi but for a long time there was nobody to throw an alley oop to), 2nd when he'll find splitter or diaw inside the paint or any other there would be a80% chance that those dude made an extra pass to find someone with a better look even standing 1 feet from the basket. so a lot to hurt cp3 assist stat you can add to that , that cp3 is playin 4 more min/game than parker on career time

What? I doubt TP would average more assists in another team than in Spurs.. the ?

[phxspurfan]

Manu is on the same level as Kobe post Jordan. Kobe had more pure athleticism and strength. Instincts and mind and vision and understanding the game, Manu was the best not just at his position but perhaps of all players post Jordan. The only player I can think of that thought the game like he did is Jeff Hornacek. No surprise that guy is killing it as a coach.

Parker is probably the 2nd best point guard after Jason Kidd in the post Jordan era. Jason Kidd you never needed to hide defensively against bigger players and length didn't bother Kidd on the offensive end.

Manu #2 after Kobe
Parker #2 after Kidd

People who believe that Steve Nash, Kyrie Irving, Steph Curry, Chris Paul, James Harden, Rajon Rondo, Dwyane Wade, Joe Johnson and these types of guys hold even a lick to Parker and Ginobili completely do not see basketball at the highest levels of detail.

Nash #1 after Kidd. CP3 also above Parker. Parker just has had better coaching, teams and the GOAT PF, as well as having Manu and countless backups to bail him out of big situations where the Spurs were about to be eliminated.

In fact, I'll go a step further and say Parker is the quintiscential (sp?) Spurs System product. Put Parker on the Clippers or Nets or Hornets or Cavs and he would blow donkey balls. Guys like Dion Waiters would be better than him on those teams, b/c there's no Pop to scheme up the perfect systems, hide him on defense, pull him when he's choking against the average athletic players he always chokes against, and finally no Duncan to drop the ball into when he's being doubled. Guys like CP3 just split the double and find a way.

[ontheraise]

so you think cp3 will average 10ass a game playin 30min in spurs system?

[DMC]

The problem with Chris Paul is that he's a star, and being a star means he makes his own decisions on the court. He's not smart enough to do that on the fly as we saw in that debacle in OKC this post season. Players like him and teams like that play hectic, chaotic basketball and rely on their individual talent to score and their athleticism and speed to defend because most of the time they are clueless at the offensive end and out of position on defense. If CP3 is to ever become a champion, he's going to have to play within a system that utilizes his strengths in a manner best suited for the people on the court with him at any given time, and I don't think Doc is smart enough to develop that kind of chemistry and team cohesion, and if he accidentally did he wouldn't know what to do with it. Chris randomly decides to shoot or to pass, or to drive or to kick, or to do nothing at all. It's almost never part of a plan that can be adjusted if it doesn't work. Because it's chaotic and in flux, Doc cannot make adjustments. How do you make adjustments to something you have no control over?

[ontheraise]

Nash #1 after Kidd. CP3 also above Parker. Parker just has had better coaching, teams and the GOAT PF, as well as having Manu and countless backups to bail him out of big situations where the Spurs were about to be eliminated.

In fact, I'll go a step further and say Parker is the quintiscential (sp?) Spurs System product. Put Parker on the Clippers or Nets or Hornets or Cavs and he would blow donkey balls. Guys like Dion Waiters would be better than him on those teams, b/c there's no Pop to scheme up the perfect systems, hide him on defense, pull him when he's choking against the average athletic players he always chokes against, and finally no Duncan to drop the ball into when he's being doubled. Guys like CP3 just split the double and find a way.

lol wait a min you're sayin dion waiter>>tony parker. well...... i think you said it all

[KL2]

05 finals Manu could've gone up against anybody, he was insanely good that year.

[mercos]

I'd take Parker as the second best PG after Jason Kidd post-Jordan. Nash was brilliant on offense, but his terrible defense knocks him down a few notches. Parker's only true compe ion is CP3. Paul has a great all around game, but I'll take Parker's ability to get to the rim over anything CP3 can do.

Manu is harder to place. Talent wise, I would rank him behind Kobe as the second best shooting guard in the league since Jordan. If Manu could stay healthy, and play as many minutes as the compe ion, I believe his numbers would be comparable to Kobe and Wade's. His run in 2010 when the Spurs barely made the playoffs as a 7th seed was spectacular, and showed what he was truly capable of. Unfortunately, Manu did not play a lot of minutes and could not stay healthy, so I can't put him ahead of Wade. Its still close though.

[Kabals]

In fact, I'll go a step further and say Parker is the quintiscential (sp?) Spurs System product.

What does the system give to Parker ?

What it doesn't:
Bigs to space the floor, and that really suck as Parker is one of the best finisher at the rim
Bigs that can jump, no alley oop option when he attacks the rim ...
Easy assist on jumpshot as Spurs don't take the inefficient jumpshot which is probably the most assisted shot and easiest assist to get

Having Duncan playing with you is cool but it doesn't give you anything on your stats sheet, you don't get assist after a post move. He might have never ringed but no way he would have been a scrub on another team.

And in this Spurs team I can't see any of Paul, Rondo or Rubio averaging more than 8 assists, not only they would have to share the ball with Manu, they wouldn't get their easy assist and wouid play 3-5 minutes less (Manu who is one of the best passer in the NBA never had 10+ assists 2 consecutive game IIRC, even when Parker was out, you simply can't stats padd assist with the Spurs).