Rockets: Rockets planning all-out push for LeBron James

[Thread]

You should bring it up at the Lakers board meeting.

Just remember it was me who cited it first.

[DMC]

Just remember it was me who cited it first.

And you'll count the hits and ignore the misses so it matters not.

[Thread]

And you'll count the hits and ignore the misses so it matters not.

Horse . I take my misses.

[DMC]

Horse . I take my misses.

When someone drags them up and trolls you incessantly with them.

[Killakobe81]

LOL ... "but Harden played with Durant and Westbrook".
How is THAT the same. Harden was a young player who mostly came off the bench as the primary ball handler when Russ sat. A young Westbrook is NOT Lebron.
Again, a great coach, a reliable #2 and another wing defender is all he needs to be back in the le race no matter whatever conference he chooses.Too many of yall fall in love with the superteam pipe dreams but in reality if you count recent Celts and Heatles they have only 3 les to show for it. Lebron should stay in MIA and ask for pieces he can count on they dont need be Melo or CP3 just dudes who can fill the appropriate roles and take some of the burden off James.

[Killakobe81]

If the Spurs taught us anything is you build around a great player you just need to change the pieces around when they get older. Spo, Riles and of course Lebron are the constants you re-sign James for as long as possible and you do a better job of building around him than Cavs.

Houston is a ty fit. Clips would make some sense if Jordan and or CP3 is gone. And tbh Lebron is worth Jordan and Paul. James plus Blake would be a great combo.

[Chinook]

LOL ... "but Harden played with Durant and Westbrook".
How is THAT the same. Harden was a young player who mostly came off the bench as the primary ball handler when Russ sat. A young Westbrook is NOT Lebron.
Again, a great coach, a reliable #2 and another wing defender is all he needs to be back in the le race no matter whatever conference he chooses.Too many of yall fall in love with the superteam pipe dreams but in reality if you count recent Celts and Heatles they have only 3 les to show for it. Lebron should stay in MIA and ask for pieces he can count on they dont need be Melo or CP3 just dudes who can fill the appropriate roles and take some of the burden off James.

Kinda convenient that you ignore the Lakers' two les in that span. They weren't a superteam in the same sense 2012-2013's Lakers were, but they still were a collection of All-Stars with a huge payroll. They were the type of team that made the Celtics and Heat think that they'd need superteams to conquer, not the type Lebron can hope to form over one off-season with a Miami team with no real assets.

Among those three teams, are five of the last seven les. The other two belong to a team on which a HoF player earned his stripes and the second-best coach in the league had his finest coaching job, and a team that was perhaps the greatest assemblage of players and coaches for the last 18 years. That's not repeatable, either.

It's not like Lebron can simply walk into Riley's office and say, "Get me 2009 Trevor Ariza and 2010 Wade." The players Miami needs are not easy to find, and they sure aren't going to be cheap.

[Chinook]

If the Spurs taught us anything is you build around a great player you just need to change the pieces around when they get older. Spo, Riles and of course Lebron are the constants you re-sign James for as long as possible and you do a better job of building around him than Cavs.

Houston is a ty fit. Clips would make some sense if Jordan and or CP3 is gone. And tbh Lebron is worth Jordan and Paul. James plus Blake would be a great combo.

Paul/Wade/X/Bosh/Jordan is an interesting combo, but Bosh would have to hang out near the three-point line to make it work offensively. They'd probably need to sign a player like Sefolosha to man the three-spot and hope he can regain his old form.

[Killakobe81]

Kinda convenient that you ignore the Lakers' two les in that span. They weren't a superteam in the same sense 2012-2013's Lakers were, but they still were a collection of All-Stars with a huge payroll. They were the type of team that made the Celtics and Heat think that they'd need superteams to conquer, not the type Lebron can hope to form over one off-season with a Miami team with no real assets.

Among those three teams, are five of the last seven les. The other two belong to a team on which a HoF player earned his stripes and the second-best coach in the league had his finest coaching job, and a team that was perhaps the greatest assemblage of players and coaches for the last 18 years. That's not repeatable, either.

It's not like Lebron can simply walk into Riley's office and say, "Get me 2009 Trevor Ariza and 2010 Wade." The players Miami needs are not easy to find, and they sure aren't going to be cheap.

Lakers were no super team. Been down that path in another thread. Lamar has zero all-star appearances, IIRC and Artest maybe only 1 or 2 more.
Miami was a great fit. A super team yes but it was a great fit of pieces before Wade's decline. Also the timely contributions of Miller, Battier and even Chalmers on the repeat teams. Heck without Ray's 3 Super teams only have 2 les since Shaqobe Lakers were broken up ...

Of course you want to collect great talent but it needs to fit.

Funny many on here consider the repeat Lakers of 2009-2010 was a super team but it was the great coaching and pieces that fit together which made that team look better than it was. Kobe was great Pau was uber efficient but that team was not great and far from a super team.

[Chinook]

Lakers were no super team. Been down that path in another thread. Lamar has zero all-star appearances, IIRC and Artest maybe only 1 or 2 more.
Miami was a great fit. A super team yes but it was a great fit of pieces before Wade's decline. Also the timely contributions of Miller, Battier and even Chalmers on the repeat teams. Heck without Ray's 3 Super teams only have 2 les since Shaqobe Lakers were broken up ...

Of course you want to collect great talent but it needs to fit.

Funny many on here consider the repeat Lakers of 2009-2010 was a super team but it was the great coaching and pieces that fit together which made that team look better than it was. Kobe was great Pau was uber efficient but that team was not great and far from a super team.

We can quibble over whether or not the Lakers of that time were a superteam. But they definitely weren't the type of team James can hope for Miami to build with no assets and declining stars. A Cole/Sef/Wade/Bosh/Gasol lineup with Wade off the bench isn't really any better than their current permutation, and that's their best-case scenario unless Dwyane and Rex take paycuts down to the point of giving the Heat cap room. Do you think Lebron and scraps is beating any team in the Finals next year? I don't.

[DMC]

If the Spurs taught us anything is you build around a great player you just need to change the pieces around when they get older. Spo, Riles and of course Lebron are the constants you re-sign James for as long as possible and you do a better job of building around him than Cavs.

Houston is a ty fit. Clips would make some sense if Jordan and or CP3 is gone. And tbh Lebron is worth Jordan and Paul. James plus Blake would be a great combo.

It's not about having a superstar and building a system of role players. It's about having a superstar who's willing to share the spotlight and trust his teammates, and not quit when times aren't optimal. You cannot even say times are tough for Lebron, he's made every Finals since he's been in Miami and been in 1 fewer Finals than Tim Duncan and Michael Jordan. You'd be hard pressed to fill a team with American born players and get Spurs type results because of the "me first" at ude in American sports.

It's easy to say that it's all about building around your core guys, but your core guys have to have the character and wherewithal to accept and foster that growth, and your front office and ownership has to have a faith and trust in the leadership of the team and the direction they are headed. That's not just something you can decide to do. It's a house of cards that you have to build from the ground up and it's easy to topple if you place one in there wrongly.

Without a true PG, Lebron will always be overused. He's a great point forward, one of the best ever in fact, but he needs to play a different role on the team and they need to have someone else running the offense so James can be free to create and roam. He's got Wade, Bosh and Allen. I think the Spurs could do just fine with those guys. It's about the leadership in Miami, and the fact that they have a culture NOW of superstar leadership that questions coaching and management decisions instead of following a game plan. I don't know if Spo ever made a game plan tbh.

[Killakobe81]

It's not about having a superstar and building a system of role players. It's about having a superstar who's willing to share the spotlight and trust his teammates, and not quit when times aren't optimal. You cannot even say times are tough for Lebron, he's made every Finals since he's been in Miami and been in 1 fewer Finals than Tim Duncan and Michael Jordan. You'd be hard pressed to fill a team with American born players and get Spurs type results because of the "me first" at ude in American sports.

It's easy to say that it's all about building around your core guys, but your core guys have to have the character and wherewithal to accept and foster that growth, and your front office and ownership has to have a faith and trust in the leadership of the team and the direction they are headed. That's not just something you can decide to do. It's a house of cards that you have to build from the ground up and it's easy to topple if you place one in there wrongly.

Without a true PG, Lebron will always be overused. He's a great point forward, one of the best ever in fact, but he needs to play a different role on the team and they need to have someone else running the offense so James can be free to create and roam. He's got Wade, Bosh and Allen. I think the Spurs could do just fine with those guys. It's about the leadership in Miami, and the fact that they have a culture NOW of superstar leadership that questions coaching and management decisions instead of following a game plan. I don't know if Spo ever made a game plan tbh.

We agree on some stuff. If LeBron were to leave the quality of head coach gn owner ship should 've first priority. He can get a #2 to follow Him ... I thought even Cavs would ring with James eventually. If he stays East he doesn't need much more help than he already has. And as amazing as Spurs were this year I don't think we see a repeat 3 straight Finals is tough to do

[djohn2oo8]

Gotta love Killa. Complains that Howard and Harden aren't stars and the only true superstars are Durant and LeBron, yet LeBron can't make it work next to them . You still didn't explain how Houston is a ty fit, tbh.

[Double-Up]

Just remember it was me who cited it first.

And you still haven't paid that ticket yet...

[Thread]

And you still haven't paid that ticket yet...

0-2 and ready to show the world. LMFAO!!!

[DMC]

We agree on some stuff. If LeBron were to leave the quality of head coach gn owner ship should 've first priority. He can get a #2 to follow Him ... I thought even Cavs would ring with James eventually. If he stays East he doesn't need much more help than he already has. And as amazing as Spurs were this year I don't think we see a repeat 3 straight Finals is tough to do

I'm sure it's tough to do, but the way it stands right now, I don't see any reason the Spurs can't be in the Finals again next year. That will likely change in a few months when news comes regarding trades and injuries.

[DMC]

Gotta love Killa. Complains that Howard and Harden aren't stars and the only true superstars are Durant and LeBron, yet LeBron can't make it work next to them . You still didn't explain how Houston is a ty fit, tbh.

I think James and Harden would play well together. Howard needs the ball to be effective, and is disinterested if he doesn't get it. Lebron isn't a greedy player, but you want the ball in his hands as well. I think they'd be good together, but Howard is too fickle to build a lasting relationship with that team and it would be a short experiment that, if it didn't pay off right away, would be disassembled. Lebron needs stability on a team that cares about winning. I think that's Miami, and the problem there is Wade's legacy and his ability/willingness to take one for the team.

[Thread]

If it keeps the bag close to the Alamo I'm all for it.

Me, dj, and 2A 3 across in the same bed is something I'd not be opposed to.

[Killakobe81]

Gotta love Killa. Complains that Howard and Harden aren't stars and the only true superstars are Durant and LeBron, yet LeBron can't make it work next to them . You still didn't explain how Houston is a ty fit, tbh.

Never said he could not, and ty was probably overstating it. I should have said not ideal or best fit. Selfishness has nothing to do with why I dont see it as a good fit. CP3 is very unselfish as well and I dont think that is a great fit either. I prefer Harden to Dwight but think that Dwight/Lebron are a better fit despite Howard clogging the lane. LEbron could make any team successful ... I just dont see a championship with that pairing because of the ball handling and lane congestion as I already stated. I said last year that the Rox had ZERO chance at a le as constructed not even a WCF run but you DPG and others scoffed, saying I was blinded by hate ... but who is laughing now? I also said that the we would have a repeat Finals but was wrong about the Champion as many of us were. Not saying I know more than EVERYONE but so many here are no better than the rubes in the eSPN boards excited by star power. Team chemistry and fit are ALMOST as important as talent. I never said that ROx should NOT get Lebron, but if they want to ring they should get pieces that fit better. I would get Lebron at any cost cost but would hold on to dwight and Lebron because that DEFENSe with Pat Beverly could be filthy I would trade Harden/Parsons for a pure shooter and one more wing defender and then you have a le contender. if Jones keeps improving with that cast you would not need much to ring. THAT is what I mean by fit.

The Shaqobe Lakers pre-Phil was actually more talented than the teams that 3 peated. For example the the team that the Jazz swept in 1999 had: Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Horry, Elden Campbell Rick Fox Derek Fisher and Shaqobe were all on the same squad but got swept by the Utah Jazz in the 2nd round. the 2000 squad traded away Jones for a past his prime Glen Rice (better spacing) which also freed up Kobe as a starter and Nick Van Exel an all star was replaced by a past his prime ron Harper who knew the triangle and was a better defender. THAt is the kind of moves teh rockets need to make and not just advance saber metric inspired moves that look better on paper. I agree Morey has been smart to acquire talent but now he has two high level all-stars. No I dont think they are superstars but definitely a good #2 and #3 I think prime Dirk, Durant for example would be great fits for Rox MAYBE even Melo ...Even though James is the better player he is not the ideal fit. But If I had a chance to get James Harden would be on the first thing smoking for a more compatible #3.

Oh and if Morey had a brain McHale would be replaced. Kevin makes Spo look like the lovechild of Pop/Riles and Phil

[coachmac87]

I think the Sterling/Ownership situation could be a huge red flag on LeBron going to the Clippers.

3 teams

Miami-most $, best ownership, beautiful place
Cleveland- best young roster, bad ownership/home
Chicago-less $, instant success, Jordan shadow

[djohn2oo8]

Never said he could not, and ty was probably overstating it. I should have said not ideal or best fit. Selfishness has nothing to do with why I dont see it as a good fit. CP3 is very unselfish as well and I dont think that is a great fit either. I prefer Harden to Dwight but think that Dwight/Lebron are a better fit despite Howard clogging the lane. LEbron could make any team successful ... I just dont see a championship with that pairing because of the ball handling and lane congestion as I already stated. I said last year that the Rox had ZERO chance at a le as constructed not even a WCF run but you DPG and others scoffed, saying I was blinded by hate ... but who is laughing now? I also said that the we would have a repeat Finals but was wrong about the Champion as many of us were. Not saying I know more than EVERYONE but so many here are no better than the rubes in the eSPN boards excited by star power. Team chemistry and fit are ALMOST as important as talent. I never said that ROx should NOT get Lebron, but if they want to ring they should get pieces that fit better. I would get Lebron at any cost cost but would hold on to dwight and Lebron because that DEFENSe with Pat Beverly could be filthy I would trade Harden/Parsons for a pure shooter and one more wing defender and then you have a le contender. if Jones keeps improving with that cast you would not need much to ring. THAT is what I mean by fit.

The Shaqobe Lakers pre-Phil was actually more talented than the teams that 3 peated. For example the the team that the Jazz swept in 1999 had: Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Horry, Elden Campbell Rick Fox Derek Fisher and Shaqobe were all on the same squad but got swept by the Utah Jazz in the 2nd round. the 2000 squad traded away Jones for a past his prime Glen Rice (better spacing) which also freed up Kobe as a starter and Nick Van Exel an all star was replaced by a past his prime ron Harper who knew the triangle and was a better defender. THAt is the kind of moves teh rockets need to make and not just advance saber metric inspired moves that look better on paper. I agree Morey has been smart to acquire talent but now he has two high level all-stars. No I dont think they are superstars but definitely a good #2 and #3 I think prime Dirk, Durant for example would be great fits for Rox MAYBE even Melo ...Even though James is the better player he is not the ideal fit. But If I had a chance to get James Harden would be on the first thing smoking for a more compatible #3.

Oh and if Morey had a brain McHale would be replaced. Kevin makes Spo look like the lovechild of Pop/Riles and Phil

Fair enough. And for some reason, McHale is well liked by alot of players around the NBA which is why he is still there, to recruit. If they were sold on him long term, they wouldn't be talking to Hollins on the side, which they are. I wanted him gone already, but if you can get Hollins and have him already on staff to take over, that would be nice.

[Killakobe81]

And of course Rox should GET James and figure the rest out later. IF I am wrong and that trio does work Houston is golden. I would sign James and then figure the out afterwards. My instincts tell me other moves would need to be made first for it to work at a optimum level.

[djohn2oo8]

just feels weird to be in the conversation for LeBron just 2 years removed from a starting lineup of a projected lineup of Lin, Martin, Parsons, Jones, Asik. It's highly likely he won't leave Miami. Still, they have no reason to be such cheapasses when it comes to the tax.

[djohn2oo8]

If they miss on LeBron and Melo, they should go after Lowry and Millsap.

[Malik Hairston]

Houston isn't going anywhere with their current situation, tbh..Harden's style of play + McHale's style of coaching = a bad idea to add another ball-dominant player, and will lead to discontent from Howard..