This team is interesting imo. After the first 2 games in the group, I thought they were done and would just go as far as the refs would help them. But I think I was wrong.
This team behaves like jekyll and hyde: sometimes they play like 2nd half vs chile and the mexico game and other times like the 1st half vs chile or the game vs cameroon. Imo it's a high pressing thing, as they can't really cope with being pressed not from a physical but a mental standpoint, which they try to overcome with physicality not intelligence (given the roster not in high supply..). Their defenders only lack discipline to play the high pressing properly, it is mental not technical. If they are pressed properly that usually leads to wrong balls and frustration and that makes the entire team shaky. If the ref lets them to get a bit physical they aren't as hampered.
Chile/mexico were awful matchups for brazil as they pressed exceptionally and didn't attack too much to permit brazil to counter (like they would have wanted). But col/ger/fra aren't super high pressing teams and they also permit brazil to counter... so from a tactical standpoint there will be a difference.
Also, the crowd is insane, especially if similar to the one in the 1st half vs chile, and it won them the match by bulling chile at the penaldos (that post in the 120'th min didn't help either).
frankly If they play germany in the SF I'd say we'd start with the 2nd chance.
Brazil
they have 85% chance to win the wc and most likely will. But they are a sorry ass team compared to the brazil of old. Even the brazil of bebeto romario tafarel and dunga run circles around these scrubs.
and id not be surprised them losing in the next round or two
that piece of ref reliant team
hulk being your best asset
overreaction, france/germany/netherlands are all strong opponents. Columbia is on a nice run too, thogh they are overrated imo, the only decent team they beat was a toothless uruguay.Brazil
they have 85% chance to win the wc and most likely will. But they are a sorry ass team compared to the brazil of old. Even the brazil of bebeto romario tafarel and dunga run circles around these scrubs.
and id not be surprised them losing in the next round or two
that piece of ref reliant team
imo hulk is not brazil's best asset. Their best assets at this tournament are thiago silva, luis gustavo, pcp monkey and then hulk.
The players that keep dragging them down are oscar, jo and fred. These dudes have played horribly up till now. Marcelo is monkeying around too much as well.
Brasil needs a center forward in a bad bad bad way.
agree that the ref help is significant and it will only increase tbh. Imagine brazil in the final on the maracana against argentina, nobody would want to ref that . Not to mention the incomprehensible amount of butthurt that will ensue regardless of result or play.
If Pinilla had better luck with that shot (which hit the post) Brazil would've already been out imho. They have good players of course, Brazil never lacks talented players but it seems like they're too much dependent on Neymar. As I said, refs will escort them to the semifinals but there'd be no chance for them to beat the 4th Reich or even France tbh.
Brazil just sucks now, I was about 9 in 02, but Ive heard that brazil from 02 was nice to watch.
neymar is the only "different" player there
their last truly brasilian side was 98 imo : starpower, teamwork, good coach, stacked team tbh. The shock of losing to a monster french squad made brasil go the ugly way tbh.
2002 the players were nicer, with genius individuals winning while the team was overall weaker. Looked it up now and it was also coached by unimaginative scolari
I agree that brasil is in dire need of some real star talent besides neymar. Monkey is nice but he doesn't compare to ronaldo/rivaldo/ronaldinho.
i see france matching up better with brasil then germany. Usually I'd take our (ger) team in a situatian like a SF with brazil in brazil but the team is kinda young and I'm not sold on their mental strength. The french are more experienced and more athletic, thus more suited for a long physical game with brasil.
btw, if you look up the roster for france 1998 you'll see what a re edly talented generation they had: zidane, henry, vieria, djorkaeff, desailly, pires, thuram, pe , dugarry or deschamps. All in their prime. Nuts.
I didnt watch ronaldo or any pf those names, so i wouldnt know, but neymars game has watered down since he left santos. But I think Neymar has everything to become a legend, dude has absurd pace.their last truly brasilian side was 98 imo : starpower, teamwork, good coach, stacked team tbh. The shock of losing to a monster french squad made brasil go the ugly way tbh.
2002 the players were nicer, with genius individuals winning while the team was overall weaker. Looked it up now and it was also coached by unimaginative scolari
I agree that brasil is in dire need of some real star talent besides neymar. Monkey is nice but he doesn't compare to ronaldo/rivaldo/ronaldinho.
Funny thing is he doesnt run like that in barca
What about that overhyped oscar
Bro no team beats us when it comes to mental toughness tbh, and we have more experience than any team on this tournament it seems like... Lahm, Mertesacker, Schweinsteiger, each of whom has gained more than 100 caps for their nation. It's true France has better athleticism (they're the most athletic team in Brazil this year imho when blacks comprise more than half their squad), but I believe experience will always outweigh athleticism for such tournaments tbh.
against brasil on their home court you'll need a load of athleticism(fra,cameroon) and the stamina of a horse to press them (chile,mex). We are lacking in both categories. Monkey and Hulk on the flanks against our relatively slow defense doesn't look great ...
- No Strikers
- No dominant MF
- GK is average (performed good in PK)
- Wing attack with FBs is finest in tournament
- Back 4 is fine
- Mentally, team is fragile
neimonkey. gustavo (CDM). But no CAM (you probably meant this with MF) ... so classic scolari football.
Also, add the refs and home court
I will give my thoughts on Brazil
In 2002, Scolari played a 3-5-2 (his favorite formation). It's a very defensive formation, but he had Rivaldo, Ronaldo and Dinho carrying his ass the whole tournament. When one played bad, the other one raised his game. It was like this until the Finals. Rivaldo played great against Belgium, Dinho saved Brazil's ass against England, Ronaldo was the savior against Turkey and both Rivaldo/Ronaldo played well in the Final against Germany.
Right now, Brazil is putting all the pressure on a 22 y/o boy. He needs to raise his game in all matches. When he doesn't, Brazil sucks badly.
Right now, Brazil has way more talent defensively than offensively. Brazil's main strikers are Jo and Fred. The only creative mid-fielders are William and Oscar. Compared to what Brazil had in the past, it's a joke. Hernanes, Ramires, Paulinho were defensive minded mid-fielders in Brazil that changed their style in Europe to become more offensive. But they're not creative.
Felipao uses Oscar as a defensive winger, seriously WTF. Oscar's job all game long is to cover Dani's ass and cross the ball from the right side. Not trying to defend Oscar because he is not playing well and he has been way too passive, but Felipao doesn't have a clue how to use him.
For what Oscar does right now, Brazil could simply use a player that can actually defend that knows how to dribble (Hernanes for example). Fred is simply too slow to play for this team. And he is doing a horrible job as a "pivo", holding the ball close to the area to wait for Neymar and the other players. Defenders have such an easy job covering him that it's like Brazil plays with a player less.
Brazil is struggling against high pressing teams because they have no mid-field. That's why you see David Luiz launching those long passes to the wingers all game long.
Honestly,I would change this team quite a bit. Dani and Marcelo can't play together. They're defensive liabilities and not only they put too much pressure on Luiz Gustavo, but they also ask Hulk/Oscar to run 2x more to cover them when it's necessary. Considering the options here (Maicon and Maxwell), I would take Dani out to put Maicon in. Maicon plays well on both ends and he crosses the ball very well.
Fred needs to go. Dude is horrible and he is probably the worst starting CF left in the WC.
My formation would be : (Luiz Gustavo won't be playing due to 2 yellow cards)
Defensively, 2 basic lines of 4 with Hulk/Neymar ahead. Not perfect, but fills the mid-field, take out a huge defensive hole at the right side, give more freedom to Oscar to create instead of defend (also giving him a mid-field partner to create) and Brazil's offensive game doesn't depend on using a worthless player like Fred as a "pivo" anymore. Coutinho would be great as an option right now, but instead he chose a 5'4 mascot that doesn't even start in Ukraine.
But knowing Scolari stubbornness, I think he starts against Colombia with :
Julio Cesar
Alves - Thiago Silva - David Luiz - Marcelo
Fernandinho (replacing Gustavo's role as the main MDC) - Paulinho (he gets back because he was good 1 year ago)
Oscar (still covering Dani's ass playing as a defensive winger lol) - Neymar - Hulk
Fred (-1)
And all the problems mentioned remain the same. Unless a miracle happens, there's no way in that Brazil wins the WC with the way they have been playing and the way this team was built.
Text is a bit long, but I just wanted to share my thoughts
overrated team made up of a bunch of individuals specialize in freestyle...
that neymar clown continues to be overrated shove down viewers throats like his the next best thing to come out of brazil or south america, pos what a waste of 100m transfer fee by spain taxpayers
good takeI will give my thoughts on Brazil
In 2002, Scolari played a 3-5-2 (his favorite formation). It's a very defensive formation, but he had Rivaldo, Ronaldo and Dinho carrying his ass the whole tournament. When one played bad, the other one raised his game. It was like this until the Finals. Rivaldo played great against Belgium, Dinho saved Brazil's ass against England, Ronaldo was the savior against Turkey and both Rivaldo/Ronaldo played well in the Final against Germany.
Right now, Brazil is putting all the pressure on a 22 y/o boy. He needs to raise his game in all matches. When he doesn't, Brazil sucks badly.
Right now, Brazil has way more talent defensively than offensively. Brazil's main strikers are Jo and Fred. The only creative mid-fielders are William and Oscar. Compared to what Brazil had in the past, it's a joke. Hernanes, Ramires, Paulinho were defensive minded mid-fielders in Brazil that changed their style in Europe to become more offensive. But they're not creative.
Felipao uses Oscar as a defensive winger, seriously WTF. Oscar's job all game long is to cover Dani's ass and cross the ball from the right side. Not trying to defend Oscar because he is not playing well and he has been way too passive, but Felipao doesn't have a clue how to use him.
For what Oscar does right now, Brazil could simply use a player that can actually defend that knows how to dribble (Hernanes for example). Fred is simply too slow to play for this team. And he is doing a horrible job as a "pivo", holding the ball close to the area to wait for Neymar and the other players. Defenders have such an easy job covering him that it's like Brazil plays with a player less.
Brazil is struggling against high pressing teams because they have no mid-field. That's why you see David Luiz launching those long passes to the wingers all game long.
Honestly,I would change this team quite a bit. Dani and Marcelo can't play together. They're defensive liabilities and not only they put too much pressure on Luiz Gustavo, but they also ask Hulk/Oscar to run 2x more to cover them when it's necessary. Considering the options here (Maicon and Maxwell), I would take Dani out to put Maicon in. Maicon plays well on both ends and he crosses the ball very well.
Fred needs to go. Dude is horrible and he is probably the worst starting CF left in the WC.
My formation would be : (Luiz Gustavo won't be playing due to 2 yellow cards)
Defensively, 2 basic lines of 4 with Hulk/Neymar ahead. Not perfect, but fills the mid-field, take out a huge defensive hole at the right side, give more freedom to Oscar to create instead of defend (also giving him a mid-field partner to create) and Brazil's offensive game doesn't depend on using a worthless player like Fred as a "pivo" anymore. Coutinho would be great as an option right now
But knowing Scolari stubbornness, I think he starts against Colombia with :
Julio Cesar
Alves - Thiago Silva - David Luiz - Marcelo
Fernandinho (replacing Gustavo's role as the main MDC) - Paulinho (he gets back because he was good 1 year ago)
Oscar (still covering Dani's ass playing as a defensive winger lol) - Neymar - Hulk
Fred (-1)
And all the problems mentioned remain the same. Unless a miracle happens, there's no way in that Brazil wins the WC with the way they have been playing and the way this team was built.
Text is a bit long, but I just wanted to share my thoughts
are there no great brazilian strikers? I find that hard to believe sincerely.
There was no change of the guard from those early to mid 2000's strikers.
Luis Fabiano: TOSB
Adriano: TOSB prefers partying in the favelas than training
Alexadre Pato: Never reached his potential
Nilmar: Carrer went , now plays in Qatar
Fred was the top scorer in the Confederations Cup last year and he fits Scolari's mould for a striker, so he played it safe.
They won't win, Argentina over Germany, Brazil over Netherlands for 3rd.Brazil
they have 85% chance to win the wc and most likely will. But they are a sorry ass team compared to the brazil of old. Even the brazil of bebeto romario tafarel and dunga run circles around these scrubs.
and id not be surprised them losing in the next round or two
that piece of ref reliant team
I was hoping for a formation like that in the beginning, but i don't think big Phil will make such drastic change in the middle of a tournament. All we can hope for is at least Oscar can start playing better to help Neymar carry the load.
Another thing I'd hope he would do is inserting Dante in the lineup and play the 3-5-2 again. At least that would give the fullbacks (Marcelo/Alves) more freedom to move forward.
Pure 9s, no there aren't. Adriano would probably be Brazil's 9 this WC if not for the drugs/drinking problems.good take
are there no great brazilian strikers? I find that hard to believe sincerely.
Where the is Pato?
He is in Brazil playing for the team of my avatar, São Paulo FC. Corinthians bought him from Milan for a load of money and fail miserably in Corinthians. Now he is on a 2-year loan.
Pato had things going his way too easy and too soon. He started playing as a PRO in 2006, when he was only 16. In 2007 he was already going to Europe to play in Milan. It's crazy but he is only 24 y/o.
He is talented but he simply doesn't care anymore. No passion at all.
Brazil's Lost Generation of Strikers
27-06-2014
With only Fred and Jô to choose from at this World Cup, Brazil's front line is looking fairly sparse - but things could have been very different.
http://www.vavel.com/en/internationa...-strikers.html
It is probably fair to say that, in a reasonably strong Brazil squad, the frontman is their main area of weakness at this year's World Cup. Luiz Felipe Scolari left himself with only Fred and Jô as out-and-out strikers, and with respect to both, they aren't exactly forwards to set pulses racing among Brazil fans who have grown up watching Ronaldo, Romário or, for the lucky few, Pelé. The goalscoring burden has been placed almost totally on the shoulders of Neymar but, just a few years ago, La Seleção had a host of exciting young strikers fighting for their chance to represent their nation. The question is, what happened to them? And who will be the next youngster to come and replace them?
Perhaps the most well-known starlet to have lost his way in recent years has been Alexandre Pato, the former AC Milan forward tipped by many to become one of the best players in the world. He made his Brazil debut at the age of just 18, breaking Pelé's own record for the fastest debut goal for Brazil, but it was not an entirely new experience for the man they called 'the Duck', having scored on his Serie A debut against Napoli just two months earlier. He scored more than 50 goals for the Rossoneri during his time at the club, including one particularly memorable strike after just 24 seconds against Barcelona in the Champions League, streaming through a flat-footed defence and finishing under the keeper with consummate ease at the Camp Nou. However, like many young forwards of his ilk, his career has been plagued with injuries.
Playing with such regularity at such intensity as he did with Milan from 18 years old always carries such risks, and muscle injuries have followed him everywhere he has gone, robbing him of his once astonishing pace. Doctors inside the San Siro have said that a growth spurt of around eight centimetres during his Milan years caused an excess of strain on his young muscles, and he missed a host of important occasions for his club. According to goal.com, Pato missed as many as 41.4% of his possible matches in Italy over a four-year period from 2008-12, and in the end it led to the end of his career in Europe. Though frequent rumours of a move to Arsenal dominated internet forums and tabloid newspapers, the man once valued at more than £40million by many returned to Brazil, joining Corinthians for a fee of little more than £12million.
The move has not worked out, with fans' protests to the club over poor team performances focused largely on Pato, having done little to live up to the considerable fanfare - and relatively hefty price tag - which greeted his return to Brazil. He was then involved in a controversial loan-swap deal with rivals São Paulo for attacking midfielder Jadson - a player who had become equally unpopular at his parent club - but it was not a move greeted with any enthusiasm by his new supporters, who held banners with sentiments such as "we don't want Pato here" on his debut. He has scored a couple of goals for his new side, but their was no great clamour to have him included in this year's World Cup squad. Pato's story is very much one of what could have been, rather than what is still likely to be.
Another young forward who failed to live up to the expectations placed upon him was Keirrison, still contracted to Barcelona despite having been out on loan almost constantly since 2009. Signing a five year contract with a €14million price tag in 2009, there was a keen interest surrounding a teenager who had scored at a rate of more than a goal every other game for former clubs Coritiba and Palmeiras, becoming the youngest ever top-scorer in Brazil's top division with 23 goals in 2008. However, having left Barcelona for Benfica just six days after joining Los Blaugranas, he was essentially frozen out of the side by a manager unwilling to start an unproven loanee ahead of established forwards Javier Saviola and Óscar Cardozo; he was signed before manager Jorge Jesus took the reigns at the Portuguese club.
The sad truth of the matter is that little of the misfortune which befell him was his own fault, with much of the blame easily accorded to former Barça president Joan Laporta, who sanctioned his transfer along with several other expensive failures - Dmytro Chygrynskiy and Martín Cáceres to name just two - without ever having the intention of Keirrison becoming a Barcelona first-teamer. Laporta hoped that Keirrison would go out on loan for a couple of seasons, score goals and be sold on at a huge profit afterwards, something that has gone less than swimmingly at clubs such as Doncaster. He has also had his fair share of knee injuries, which, mixed with his journeyman-like career, have hampered his development as a player. He will leave Barcelona at the end of his contract this year, and is likely to sign permanently for Coritiba, where he is currently on loan.
Our final former Brazilian wunderkind is another current loanee, Dentinho, currently partway through an unhappy spell at Beşiktaş from parent club Shakhtar Donetsk, where many Brazilians such as Bernard and Douglas Costa have made their home. He joined from Corinthians for around €7.5million in 2011 having enjoyed a blistering start to his career in Brazil. He was a member of the Corinthians squad which was infamously relegated in 2007, but came back stronger to lead the historic club's goalscoring tally in the second division the following season. Eleven goals in fourteen games for the Brazil u-20 side in 2009 made him hot property in his home country, but he soon found himself going down a well-trodden path. His early pace, dribbling skills and fancy tricks became old news, replaced by a frustrating inconsistency in front of goal and an almost total lack of end-product to his mazy runs. He has won trophies in the Ukraine - the Ukrainian league, cup and Super Cup in 2012 - but he has never rediscovered his former prowess in front of goal. He promised upon his departure that he would one day return to play in Brazil - unfortunately, it will be accompanied by a lot less fanfare than when he left.
The name currently on the lips of many Brazilians is Gabigol, or, more accurately, Gabriel Barbosa of Santos. He has broken a goalscoring record previously held by Neymar with 14 goals so far this season, but it is the quality rather than the quan y of his strikes which have set him apart from the rest. Gabriel has something else about him, a natural eye for goal which is found in only the best strikers and has raised eyebrows in Europe to the point that Barcelona already have first refusal on him, part of the contract which saw Neymar make the switch from the Estádio Urbano Caldeira to the Camp Nou. Comparisons with the man currently lighting up the World Cup are fairly superficial; he is a less skilful player, but has more power to his young physique and is perhaps a better finisher than Neymar was at the same age. He is still just seventeen, but if Pato, Keirrison and Dentinho have taught us anything, it is that it is too early to make any sort of judgement on his future career. Brazil fans will be hoping for more Ronaldo, less Robinho.
First good take I've seen in this forum about brasil this world cup.I will give my thoughts on Brazil
In 2002, Scolari played a 3-5-2 (his favorite formation). It's a very defensive formation, but he had Rivaldo, Ronaldo and Dinho carrying his ass the whole tournament. When one played bad, the other one raised his game. It was like this until the Finals. Rivaldo played great against Belgium, Dinho saved Brazil's ass against England, Ronaldo was the savior against Turkey and both Rivaldo/Ronaldo played well in the Final against Germany.
Right now, Brazil is putting all the pressure on a 22 y/o boy. He needs to raise his game in all matches. When he doesn't, Brazil sucks badly.
Right now, Brazil has way more talent defensively than offensively. Brazil's main strikers are Jo and Fred. The only creative mid-fielders are William and Oscar. Compared to what Brazil had in the past, it's a joke. Hernanes, Ramires, Paulinho were defensive minded mid-fielders in Brazil that changed their style in Europe to become more offensive. But they're not creative.
Felipao uses Oscar as a defensive winger, seriously WTF. Oscar's job all game long is to cover Dani's ass and cross the ball from the right side. Not trying to defend Oscar because he is not playing well and he has been way too passive, but Felipao doesn't have a clue how to use him.
For what Oscar does right now, Brazil could simply use a player that can actually defend that knows how to dribble (Hernanes for example). Fred is simply too slow to play for this team. And he is doing a horrible job as a "pivo", holding the ball close to the area to wait for Neymar and the other players. Defenders have such an easy job covering him that it's like Brazil plays with a player less.
Brazil is struggling against high pressing teams because they have no mid-field. That's why you see David Luiz launching those long passes to the wingers all game long.
Honestly,I would change this team quite a bit. Dani and Marcelo can't play together. They're defensive liabilities and not only they put too much pressure on Luiz Gustavo, but they also ask Hulk/Oscar to run 2x more to cover them when it's necessary. Considering the options here (Maicon and Maxwell), I would take Dani out to put Maicon in. Maicon plays well on both ends and he crosses the ball very well.
Fred needs to go. Dude is horrible and he is probably the worst starting CF left in the WC.
My formation would be : (Luiz Gustavo won't be playing due to 2 yellow cards)
Defensively, 2 basic lines of 4 with Hulk/Neymar ahead. Not perfect, but fills the mid-field, take out a huge defensive hole at the right side, give more freedom to Oscar to create instead of defend (also giving him a mid-field partner to create) and Brazil's offensive game doesn't depend on using a worthless player like Fred as a "pivo" anymore. Coutinho would be great as an option right now
But knowing Scolari stubbornness, I think he starts against Colombia with :
Julio Cesar
Alves - Thiago Silva - David Luiz - Marcelo
Fernandinho (replacing Gustavo's role as the main MDC) - Paulinho (he gets back because he was good 1 year ago)
Oscar (still covering Dani's ass playing as a defensive winger lol) - Neymar - Hulk
Fred (-1)
And all the problems mentioned remain the same. Unless a miracle happens, there's no way in that Brazil wins the WC with the way they have been playing and the way this team was built.
Text is a bit long, but I just wanted to share my thoughts
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