NBA: Best defenders in NBA history?

[DMC]

I don't see why anyone would rank Jordan as a great defender. There is too much footage of him getting torched. Watch how easily Bird torches Jordan.

Michael Jordan, Gary Payton, Garnett, and Bryant share the record for most NBA All-Defensive first team selections with nine.

There goes the "all defensive team only after age 32" argument...

[DMC]

Kobe was a better defender than Bowen. Bowen was in the league a good 8 years before people start making a big deal about his defense. And most of it was dirty.

You're confusing popularity and recognition with ability.

[Malik Hairston]

The fact you dont have Rodman as a top 5 speaks volumes. Robinson over Rodman? LMAO

Rodman was a good, even great defender that had a nice statistical impact on the defenses of his teams, but nothing historic..

David Robinson's defensive on/off metrics are mind-blowing, tbh..

[Buddy Mignon]

Rodman was a good, even great defender that had a nice statistical impact on the defenses of his teams, but nothing historic..

David Robinson's defensive on/off metrics are mind-blowing, tbh..

Except for when facing Hakeem when it mattered.

[Buddy Mignon]

Michael Jordan, Gary Payton, Garnett, and Bryant share the record for most NBA All-Defensive first team selections with nine.

There goes the "all defensive team only after age 32" argument...

Kobe and KG were good for their era's, but not great. Payton was great. Jordan was good but not great. Bowen was good but not great. Like I said... he was damn there an old man by the time teams start considering him a good defender.

[HemisfairArena]

Rodman was a good defender that had a nice impact on the defenses of his teams, but nothing historic..

David Robinson's defensive on/off metrics are mind-blowing, tbh..

Rodman did things as a Small Forward that will probably never be done again. The league hated his rebellion,,,if he dressed in a suit without dyed hair, piercings, and tattoo's,,,,He would have more acculades,,

[HemisfairArena]

Rodman won 7 straight rebounding les in a row. How the do you win 7 straight rebounding les as a small forward if you aren't a ing defensive badass? He was only 6'7 and 220. Dude played like he was 7 foot and 320.

[100%duncan]

Lebron anyone?

[Jenks]

If Pat's logic holds up, then the center is the floor general on defense thus, according to you, the best defender on the floor. Same then must be true on offense for the PG.

Let me help you with an analogy from another sport because no, that's not his argument.

Quarterback is by far the most important position for an offense in football.
Trent Dilfer wasn't the best player on the Ravens offense when they won the Superbowl in 2000.

Pat (and I) aren't arguing that C is always the best defender on the court, just that the job is the most important. Easy example, Jordan and Pippen >>>>>> Longley.

If you want recent example of how a great defensive big can change a game, look at Ibaka in this years WCF. A great perimeter defender can't change a series like that.

[cd021]

Did Scottie Pippen or Tim Duncan ever win Defensive Player of the Year?,,,,I don't think so. As a Spurs fan,,,obviously I love our players past and present but while Duncan was/is a great defender,,,he isn't top 5 of All Time,,,just like Bowen was a great defender but isn't Top 5 of All Time.

Top 5 Defensive players would be Rodman, Wallace, Jordan, Wilt, and Hakeem,,,with an honorable mention for the Glove and DHoward.

Duncan is easily top 5 all time. 98.1 Defensive Win Shares, Career D Rtg of 95.

Howard had a couple of dominant defensive seasons. Particularly in 09-10 season but hasn't been nearly as good sense then. He should even been mentioned.

[DMC]

Kobe and KG were good for their era's, but not great. Payton was great. Jordan was good but not great. Bowen was good but not great. Like I said... he was damn there an old man by the time teams start considering him a good defender.

So you've used a double standard. You said Bowen wasn't a great defender because he wasn't on the all defensive team, yet Jordan holds a record for number of all defensive teams and he wasn't a great defender. I think we can rule out all defensive teams as a standard for greatness on defense.

[Jenks]

Robinson?,,,,cmon,,,,as a Spurs fan I loved Rodman getting traded here and calling David a wimp. If Robinson had any toughness,,,we have les before Timmy arrived. I remember Karl Malone knocking David out while I also remember Rodman crushing Malone and laughing about it when he was with the Bulls.

This is one of the most re ed things I've ever read.

In fact, if you swapped Horry for your boy Rodman, Robinson would have gotten a ring in 95. Having a complete ing waste (as opposed to a legendary stretch 4) next to him allowed the Rockets to double on every possession (and triple a lot because Robinson was still scoring).

Another ing revisionist clown watching ESPN clips of the Dream shake and calling Robinson soft.



I'll leave these here, too
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...tg_career.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_career.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._g_career.html


you, and Rodman, the worst Spur ever. I bet you thought it was hilarious when he refused to participate in team huddles during timeouts in 95 WCF, head.

[DMC]

Let me help you with an analogy from another sport because no, that's not his argument.

Quarterback is by far the most important position for an offense in football.
Trent Dilfer wasn't the best player on the Ravens offense when they won the Superbowl in 2000.

Pat (and I) aren't arguing that C is always the best defender on the court, just that the job is the most important. Easy example, Jordan and Pippen >>>>>> Longley.

If you want recent example of how a great defensive big can change a game, look at Ibaka in this years WCF. A great perimeter defender can't change a series like that.

So it's the most important (I don't agree), that doesn't mean the center is the best defender. All the names given by some of you were centers, yet there's no center with 9 all defensive team selections.

[HemisfairArena]

This is one of the most re ed things I've ever read.

In fact, if you swapped Horry for your boy Rodman, Robinson would have gotten a ring in 95. Having a complete ing waste (as opposed to a legendary stretch 4) next to him allowed the Rockets to double on every possession (and triple a lot because Robinson was still scoring).

Another ing revisionist clown watching ESPN clips of the Dream shake and calling Robinson soft.



I'll leave these here, too
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...tg_career.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_career.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._g_career.html


you, and Rodman, the worst Spur ever. I bet you thought it was hilarious when he refused to participate in team huddles during timeouts in 95 WCF, head.

Take it easy,,,,you aren't the only clueless one on this site,,,,I'm with ya,,,,we're both stupid.

[-21-]

In no order, off the top of my head:

Paint

Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard

Perimeter

Dennis Rodman, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Michael Cooper, Gary Payton, Ron Artest

[Jenks]

So it's the most important (I don't agree), that doesn't mean the center is the best defender. All the names given by some of you were centers, yet there's no center with 9 all defensive team selections.

I said up front I was partial to bigs. If I was picking the top 5 offensive football players, they'd all be quarterbacks. If I was to pick the best offensive player in the 2000 Ravens, it wouldn't be Dilfer. I have no problem with you disagreeing that bigs aren't the most important, just explaining to you my reasoning. I don't think center is automatically > non center, that would be silly.

[Jenks]

we're both stupid.

it, I'll drink to that

[mercos]

PG - Gary Payton
SG - Scottie Pippen (I know he was a small forward, but it, can't leave him off the list.)
SF - Dennis Rodman
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Hakeem Olajuwon

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I'll do them in terms of position.

1st team:
Olajuwon, Rodman, Pippen, Jordan, Payton

2nd team:
Chamberlain, Duncan, LeBron, Cooper, Magic

3rd team:
Russell, Garnett, Marion, Kobe, Kidd

[ginobilized]

Here are 3 lesser knowns to be considered:

Ron Harper was such a good defender that MJ made sure he was on the Bulls

Dennis Johnson was pretty tough back in the day too

How about Bobby Jones? That dude was the bomb

[Thebesteva]

Here are 3 lesser knowns to be considered:

Ron Harper was such a good defender that MJ made sure he was on the Bulls

Dennis Johnson was pretty tough back in the day too

How about Bobby Jones? That dude was the bomb

Ron Harper is one of the most forgotten great role players ever

[Leetonidas]

I hate that got but tbh KG is getting severely underrated in this thread. Dude is arguably a better defensive player than Duncan

[Leetonidas]

And honestly not even trying to be a homer but imo Bruce Bowen was the best perimeter defender I've seen in since I started watching ball in 99. He would make life for PGs like Nash, make Kobe work harder than any other defender (Kobe himself has said this), you could even switch him on to players like Dirk for short stretches. Dude was an iron man and never missed games. I even remember a game way back when against the Raps where he locked down Bosh in the final minutes of the game. Versatility is important and imo Bowen was the perfect combo of being able to stay in front of players and being up in their grill at the same time.

Artest was also a monster when he was in his prime. Mourning is also severely underrated imo. And Robinson was one of the top 5 ever imo, if you look at his defensive metrics when he was old and broken down you could still see he was on par with prime Duncan.

[Brunodf]

People underestimate how great DHoward is at defense. He is Dennis Rodman part 2 but taller with some offensive game. He has 3 straight Defensive Player of the Year award's. 5 Rebounding les. Dude even carried a scrub Magic team to the Finals. And this guy is only 28.

[TDMVPDPOY]

ben wallace is overrated

the person who doesnt get the most benefit for changing that pistons team around was rasheed wallace, b4 he even got to the team, team was jack , all of a sudden the signing of rasheed they became what they are....

if ben was so good, why did he become tosb after signing that max contract from the bulls, didnt do or put up 1 good season