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lol i want that cavs game at home and i want lebron to watch the spurs get the rings/banner that busted his south beach dynasty attempt
Oh. I missed that. Thought it said that it's also Spurs opening game so it might be possible that Spurs first game is in AT&T then will travel to Cleveland but still, want the Spurs. not only to win, but leads around 30.
lol i want that cavs game at home and i want lebron to watch the spurs get the rings/banner that busted his south beach dynasty attempt
You're suffering from grassisgreeneritis:
During his lone season with the Rockets, Casspi averaged 6.9 points, 3.7 rebounds, and 1.2 assists while playing 18.1 minutes per game off the bench. Despite displaying the qualities of a decent role player, his ability to shoot from outside proved inconsistent – he shot 34.7 percent through 71 games for Houston.
Daye's career three is better than this, and with us last year in limited time he shot 41%. Give him 18 minutes per game and his points, rebounds (well rebounds not bad, actually) and assists are at least that good, too. It's a new Daye.
Last edited by littlecoyotecoin; 07-27-2014 at 08:26 PM.
Kind of moot to argue now that he's signed with another team now though. Just for the sake of it, Casspi shot decently from the right corner. Daye on the other hand...well it's a small sample size, making blanks from the right corner and nothing from the left. I've followed all your arguments regarding Daye and all of them have hinged on an expectation he does better, something difficult to prove until the season unfolds. You technically could look at his Per 36 numbers, though again his open looks might have been a result of the system. Garcia on the other hand, I couldn't care less about his shooting, but his defense has grown to be notable. Not a bad insurance policy if Kawhi sits.
Again, moot. Not setting high standards for the 11th, 12th, or 13th men on the team. Logical to expect something more from Daye on a contract year and year two.
Yes, moot. Yet another FA that we didn't want, or didn't want us. But, agreed, Daye will have to continue what he started last season, and build upon it.
Yeah sorry mate, I noticed a trend in your arguments, nothing personal. You see Daye has better stats, you aren't afraid to use them. Daye has worse stats, attribute it to a small sample size and a lack of playing time. Easy to see where we're going. That, despite his poor summer league showing. Good to know Daye has passionate proponents though. I just hope we won't have to wait for another Philly game to see what he's made of.
I live in Hungary, and I quite have a good relationship with some Serbian basketball coaches and basketball personals and the Spurs contacted Darko Milicic, to come back next year.
You heard it here, from me first. Darko does not want to come back, but definitely interested about working with Pop and Duncan even he is afraid he wouldn't play too much as the Spurs want him to essentially take the Baynes role with shot-blocking.
Hey, atleast we're not the only one.
Oh boy wait til the scrubs from Project Spurs get their hands on this
I actually seen a lot of pre-NBA Darko with the underage national teams and he was toying with the guys. He looked liked Duncan with Amare like athleticism. He averaged like 22 & 14 in a tournament. The Pistons ed him up, so yeah. Even I loved him, hi is a not a player we should get right now. His only strengths are his HUGE body and his shot-blocking.
Since that one Philly game accounted for maybe about 20% of his playing time, maybe, we might have to wait that long. Hard to see what you're made of without PT. Regarding summer league, I think my defense of Daye obscures all of the criticism that I give him, as well. I was critical of his fouling, last year. He fouled too much, and he was too eager on upfakes, getting up into the air, and crashing down on the offensive player for an easy foul call. I didn't see him do that once in summer league. I am still cautious about his defense being acceptable, but it was during summer league. And, lastly, I worry about his work ethic, a little. He is a little Hollywood for a player that is struggling to make it. I try to be very measured, but due to the large number of random negative statements about him, from different sources, it may appear that I am bias, or wearing rose colored glasses. I am not. I do not hold his summer league stats in as high a regard because all of these people that he is getting compared to, such as Omri Casspi, are not having their summer league stats held against them, for example. You just trot out a Casspi>Daye. That is not an argument, that is just an opinion. An opinion, that when we shine lights on the numbers, don't really hold up, and I'm not cherry picking numbers. Career 3 point shooting is a wash. That is not a small sample. Career three point shooting .352, and .353. Daye actually edges him out by a hair, but so close we could just say equal. In addition to that, if you look at PER, Omri doesn't outclass him in career PER in any category, except maybe 2pt%, which is by about 2-3% points. In other categories, there is little difference, until you get to blocks, where Daye is significantly higher, and free throw percentage, which is 10% higher for Daye. These are career numbers, not small samples. And, in general, I think better free throw shooters end up being better shooters in general, over the course of a career.
Then when you compare their most recent NBA work, Daye 41% from 3, and Casspi 34% from 3. Both small samples, 29 and 70ish shots, respectively. So, I don't think it's fair to say that Casspi>Daye in any statistically significant way. If it is your opinion, well, I can't argue with that. But, the numbers don't bear out. Again, career numbers. You are arguing to pick up a guy that was just released for being inconsistent from the 3 point line, to replace a guy that was better from the 3 point line last year, and has been at least equal over their careers. It doesn't make sense. Add to that, Daye has already had time in the system. Casspi would be starting anew.
I didn't compare Garcia, although he compares favorably in assists and shooting, he is a 2/3, and Casspi and Daye are 3/4s. Garcia is a 9 year veteran. Garcia will earn more money than Daye. Garcia may be a better player, but comparing the two is much more difficult because of all of these differences.
Regarding my supposed bias, again, I think it would be unfair to hold Daye's summer league shooting against him in these arguments because we don't have Casspi's summer league numbers. However, I did criticize Daye's shooting performance several times in those threads. He shot very poorly. I don't believe it will continue into the regular season, but I have said that if it does, I will be the first one calling for him to not be renewed, cut, or traded at the end of the year. But, summer league is what it is. If he did well, (which in many respects he did well), detractors would have chalked it up to lesser compe ion. It goes both ways.
In regard to some of the times I have asked people to re-evaluate (but never disregard) his 3 point shooting percentage with an open mind, it is in regard to three main issues:
1)
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/hamilto...0263--nba.html
John Kuester (2009-11)
Kuester was an assistant on the 2004 championship Pistons team but had a very different experience as head coach. The Pistons compiled a 57-107 record in Kuester's two seasons at the helm and missed the playoffs in consecutive years for the first time since 1993-95. Relationships with his players were abysmal during Kuester's second season. A dispute between Kuester and Hamilton led to Hamilton being benched for nearly seven weeks. Meanwhile, point guard Rodney Stuckey was benched twice. After seven players missed at least part of a shoot around in Philadelphia on Feb. 25, 2011, Kuester responded by only playing the remaining six players in a blowout loss. On June 5, 2011, four days after Tom Gores finished an agreement to buy the Pistons from Bill Davidson's widow, Karen Davidson, Kuester was fired.
Daye was involved in this, according to one article. This turmoil that he was involved in, to some extent, corresponds to following his worst shooting percentage year of his first four years: .210 under the new coach. That is a smaller sample of 62 shots sandwiched between two larger samples where he shot VERY well.
http://pistonpowered.com/2011/06/07/...ns-everywhere/
He is attributed as being a "hard worker" in this article, but I think he had a bad at ude, and was part of the problem instead of just putting his nose to the grindstone, he was part of the rumor mill, and locker room discontent. I don't really know what happened, but it was a cluster . The coaching change did not go well for him the next year. Frank was also soon fired. Whatever the case, something wasn't right in Detroit, and he had a HORRIFFIC shooting year from 3. The question I ask when I look at that number is: Is he likely to shoot anywhere near .210 in San Antonio? No. Is that year possibly due to the turmoil and him being a little bit of a head case? I think yes. So, I do weigh that number less when making a SUBJECTIVE case for Daye. He still shot .210. I can't deny that. But, I have to ask if that is likely to repeat itself in San Antonio. His college numbers say no. The years before and after that year say it is probably an anomaly.
2) His rookie year was lower. 30.5% When making a subjective case for him, I do weight his rookie year less. He is, afterall, a rookie. He had a higher 3 point percentage than Danny Green, his rookie year (and their sop re years), for example, and Danny is a great 3 point shooter, now, with The Spurs. And, a lot of rookies don't get to play at all. He was thrown right into the fire. So, Subjectively, I do make an allowance for those two years. Being a young player, in a lot of bad situations, they heavily weight against him in his career numbers.
3) In Memphis, his arrival and stay was right around the same time Hollins was being ousted, or "not renewed". That was not a stable environment, either. If you remember, Hollins sideline eruption on a player, probably deserved, but not exactly a hospitable environment for a new guy - when your coach is going Bobby Knight on pro players on national TV. Toronto is perennially bad. In Memphis, and Totonto, his numbers were not great, but weren't as bad as those other two mentioned, and they were smaller samples. His best shooting years were when he was shooting the most. This is pretty logical. When he got bounced around to those last two teams, his 3 point percentage suffered. It would be ideal if he shot great each time he got traded into a new tumultuous situation, with limited playing time. A little unrealistic, but it would be nice. But, will he have ANY of these things to worry about in San Antonio? No. In San Antonio, he will find as stable an environment as one can find in professional basketball. His role will be as clearly defined as anywhere in basketball. He's older. Hopefully more mature. His coach will be here for several years, and the transition will likely be smooth.
I think that The Spurs would try to read between the lines when making evaluations like this, except even more so than I do, of course. I don't think they look at that year and say: He shot .210 from 3, he sucks. He's inconsistent. Absolutely, they will attempt to determine if there was an aberration.
littlecoyotecoin TL;DR, and as I said I won't be setting the bar high for your boy. As you have astutely pointed out, Casspi/Garcia > Daye might have been an opinion, which it is, and a personal preference at that. You came out with stats and even if Daye actually has a better PER or shooting percentage (pretty sure he loses out at win shares), it doesn't actually matter, for me at least. Been a fan of Casspi. That's all there is. That, and he's going to add some Asian/international flavor to the roster.
Seems to me Daye's been having a run of bad luck wherever he ends up though. Will probably catch his lucky break here, as you have been implying, yet it remains a mere hope or an expectancy. Regarding summer league, you see rookies like TJ Warren and Doug McDermott put up solid numbers, if not consistently, without sputtering as much. Personally (keyword) expected him to at least be one of the more prominent players in SL.
Last edited by FireMicoHalili; 07-28-2014 at 11:11 AM.
It's all good. It will be more clear in a year, and we can reflect. I like bargains. He may be one. If not, I'm all for bringing in the next guy.
What's you take on this. I posted it in another thread, not sure if you saw it or didn't think it was worth replying to.
I'm particularly interested in your take on his body language and leadership skills. I thought he was mostly awful out there in SL and carried himself poorly out there, but some people say that he played well (apart from having a bad tournament shooting wise).
Maybe his body language can be attributed to it being SL and he wasn't enthused about it, but other, older players have been sent to SL and I don't recall them showing such poor body language out there. He just seems/acts like he's en led. I don't really like what I've seen of him at ude wise/hunger wise. He just doesn't seem hungry or like he wants it badly enough. I'd rather have a player with slightly less talent that wants it more than anything, wants it really bad, is willing to work his ass off for it. I don't think he works hard enough. I think he needs to be out of league and in desperation before he might come to the realization that he needs to give it 100% out there on the court and in the gym. Something's just not clicking with this guy IMO.
The new tspence26
Sorry. Kinda just wanted to see if the gif would work.
Shams Charania: Ivan Johnson's deal with the Dallas Mavericks is for two seasons, partially guaranteed both years, sources tell RealGM.
Shams Charania: Ivan Johnson's deal with the Dallas Mavericks is for two seasons, partially guaranteed both years, sources tell RealGM.
Adrian Wojnarowski: Preference remains to stay in NBA, but Atlanta RFA Mike Scott considering lucrative three-year offer with CSKA-Moscow, sources tell Yahoo.
What is this, a gif for ants?
Sorry. Kinda just wanted to see if the gif would work.
You gotta think the Spurs have reached out to Marion by now, right? He's clearly not going back to Dallas at this point. I know you don't just dip into the MLE for the of it, but Marion fits the Spurs mold. Veteran with lots of playoff experience, good defender, and can hit open 3s. No one is going to offer Marion a big contract at this point (if they did, I'd imagine he'd have already been picked up by now).
Only thing that could prevent it from working out would be if he's looking for a big role...but he's 36 now and I'm guessing his focus is winning another ring. I hope we're at least looking into him. I'm obviously not going to get my hopes up as we've heard nothing about him and the Spurs having mutual interest, but I think it'd be a good signing and would really cap off a great offseason. Although I guess it would mean giving up on Baynes...unless we found a way to dump Ayres (yes please).
My pipe dream would be us signing Marion for some of the MLE, trading Ayres for a 2nd round pick, and then bringing Baynes back as well.
Harsh. Why all the hate on those guys? The comments sections are empty, but their articles are timely, frequent and often interesting to me. What am I missing?
Sup Paul.
Most of their articles give the impression of much ado about nothing, like they're written just for the sake of meeting a quota or a deadline. What they write, most people already know. They're reliable with breaking news but the logic in their analyses is flimsy. Simply put, I've read better elsewhere.
Lol actually saw your comment in the Ayres article. They had to *really* dig deep to find something good in Ayres, ended up getting short-changed by being told he's paid only $1.75M a year so everything's fine, we've got good value here.
I copied and pasted it to the Ayres thread, just for relevance. I don't remember making much comment on it. What did I say? I did think that article was interesting, and a lot of work went into it. It had a lot of data on Baynes, Daye, and Splitter, too. One of the more interesting pieces on that site, I thought. Granted, it was in defense of, arguably, our worst player. But, that was the point, for me. What kind of Devil's Advocate case can be made for him? I don't remember their final conclusion, maybe they went overboard in praise of him, but there were some positive tid-bits in there. He's not great, but we have lived through some bad end-of-the-bench guys. Some were so bad they couldn't make it onto the floor at all. Maybe he's overpaid by $500k, a year, down to VM, and we can find someone better, both, but the hate is probably just a little overdone (and tacky on a personal level...I think I may have even been in on the act), as per usual, so I enjoyed the article from a contrarian, against the conventional wisdom point of view. He is still the first person I cut or trade, but I appreciated the slant of the article, reaching, or stretching how it may have been. I always like to assume the case that I'm wrong. Heliocentricity.
I like their quick and frequent reporting. 48MOH is ok, but slow with content. PtR is better, but not as prolific. Especially during the doldrums of summer, they give me something to check up on, to give me a little fix. SpursHomer, AirAlamo, slow, almost defunct. Who has interesting Spurs stuff to read on a daily basis that I am missing? Jeff McDonald? EN? I find a lot of the sites rehash the same old stuff...none of them would DARE publish that "In Defense Of Ayres" piece. They would write a 4th story about the Argentinian team struggling, or how great Timmy is.
I do hate that their site crashes my phone about 75% of the time. That does make me want to cuss them a little.
Regarding other articles on PS, several of them are long on pictures short on words. The articles sometimes read as almost a caption for the photo, instead of an article. Lazy writing. But, so what? I'm not exactly paying them. Sometimes I find a nugget. With all the hate towards them, I thought they ed someone's mother.
He led the SL team in points, rebounds, and assists. Was second in steals and blocks. If not liking his body language means he wasn't "hungry" enough I'm not sure what he could do otherwise. He will be lucky to crack double digit minutes per game. That's his role on the team. Did you want him to average 30ppg 15 rpg while being the floor general and assistant coach? You expect that out of a ~1m/yr 13th man?
If you want to talk about efficiency, the PG play on the SL team was horse all around. Daye won't be taking mainly turnaround jumpers if he plays in the RS. Daye shot horribly but that isn't unheard of in a 6 game span. He is what he is. If he can shoot ~35% from three and decently defend backup SF/PFs that is golden. I don't get why people are so polarized about this guy.
I wonder if Spurs fans had long circular discussions about whether this guy was the savior every offseason
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